You play to win now. No more excuses.

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Lets look at the Clippers.  I've always said the Clippers are a very deep team.  Kawhi goes down.  Lue plays the ENTIRE bench.  He isn't sticking to what a "book" says about rotations.  He is out there doing WHATEVER it takes to get a cohesive unit on the floor.  George is a nice piece, but you can't tell me that the Hawks can't match George's output with the other players on their roster.  The Clippers are still in this thing WITHOUT their superstar.  The Hawks in my opinion, CAN get back into this series without Trae.  I've been calling for more of Lou, heck even Skylar Mayes.  You try whatever it takes to overcome and the Hawks have enough pieces to do it.  They won games without Trae during the regular season.  Huerter is a nice piece.  Give Snell a couple more  possessions by running a couple of plays to him to try and find his rhythm.  You got to find the points.

The Clippers are not winning a ring without Kawhi.  They still have their All-NBA player in Paul George and will win a handful of games without him but they aren't winning a championship.  Granted, George is much better than the next best guy was on the Raptors but I don't think that will be enough.  Maybe Paul George will prove me wrong but I've eliminated them in my mind unless Kawhi comes back. 

The way they can win a ring is to win enough to bridge them back to a return from Kawhi.  They are fortunate enough to be matched against a team without a true superstar so this is much better for them than facing last year's Lakers or something.  Any team can win any game on a given night and kudos to the Clippers for winning two of them.  There is every reason to compete in the playoffs each and every game no matter who you are missing and the good news for them is that they might be able to last long enough for Kawhi to return. 

For the Hawks, we are already down Hunter and if we are down Trae I don't think we can overcome that.  Matched up against a multiple MVP in the playoffs is not the same as the regular season.  I don't think Snell and Skyler can win the series without Trae.  But the Hawks can win a single game if Trae is limping or out.  That is where they should focus and bring it all for tonight's game.  Tie the series up 2-2 and hope Trae can get healthy (assuming he isn't tonight) while the Hawks are still alive.

And if Trae is going to be out, I'll be rooting for the rest of the Hawks to prove me wrong and win a title anyway.  Otherwise, just attack every game and do what you can to win that particular game and hope Trae heals in the meantime.  

Heck, he might even be significantly recovered in time for tonight's game.  No reason to despair for the Hawks but I do think it is better to be honest about the impact of losing Trae on our chances for a championship if that is what we are talking about.

Again, the Bulls did not come close to winning a ring without Michael and that is perfectly ok.  The greatest team in NBA history wasn't flawed just because it needed him to win rings.  

 

[Hawkmoor]

19 minutes ago, AHF said:

The Clippers are not winning a ring without Kawhi.  They still have their All-NBA player in Paul George and will win a handful of games without him but they aren't winning a championship.  Granted, George is much better than the next best guy was on the Raptors but I don't think that will be enough.  Maybe Paul George will prove me wrong but I've eliminated them in my mind unless Kawhi comes back. 

The way they can win a ring is to win enough to bridge them back to a return from Kawhi.  They are fortunate enough to be matched against a team without a true superstar so this is much better for them than facing last year's Lakers or something.  Any team can win any game on a given night and kudos to the Clippers for winning two of them.  There is every reason to compete in the playoffs each and every game no matter who you are missing and the good news for them is that they might be able to last long enough for Kawhi to return. 

For the Hawks, we are already down Hunter and if we are down Trae I don't think we can overcome that.  Matched up against a multiple MVP in the playoffs is not the same as the regular season.  I don't think Snell and Skyler can win the series without Trae.  But the Hawks can win a single game if Trae is limping or out.  That is where they should focus and bring it all for tonight's game.  Tie the series up 2-2 and hope Trae can get healthy (assuming he isn't tonight) while the Hawks are still alive.

And if Trae is going to be out, I'll be rooting for the rest of the Hawks to prove me wrong and win a title anyway.  Otherwise, just attack every game and do what you can to win that particular game and hope Trae heals in the meantime.  

Heck, he might even be significantly recovered in time for tonight's game.  No reason to despair for the Hawks but I do think it is better to be honest about the impact of losing Trae on our chances for a championship if that is what we are talking about.

Again, the Bulls did not come close to winning a ring without Michael and that is perfectly ok.  The greatest team in NBA history wasn't flawed just because it needed him to win rings.  

 

Lets agree to disagree about winning without a Superstar.   The overriding issue with me, again, is nothing is guaranteed.  The Hawks could have a completely healthy team next season, with ADDITIONS, and still get bumped from the playoffs.  What they did this season is VERY hard.  Its not easy to win a playoff series, much less TWO, superstar or not.  A perfect example is the 1987 Hawks.  They lost that 7 game series to Boston that they should've won.   They looked at their roster and felt that Randy Wittman and Tree Rollins were the weak link.  They signed Reggie Theus and Moses Malone to replace them.  That roster was STACKED.  They had a starting five AND a nice bench.  The 1988 roster was waay better than the previous one which lost in the second round.  They got beat in 5 in the first round against who?  The Bucks.   You play to win now.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Hawkmoor

[Hawkmoor]

49 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

The Hawks were BUILT FOR DEPTH.  That has been Travis's calling card the whole time he has been GM.  The Hawks DEPTH is suppose to overcome Trae going down.  If that depth doesn't, then there is a flaw.

@REHawksFan    THIS is my point.  Trae was 1-11 and the Hawks got rid of Philly in this game:

 

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Lets agree to disagree about winning without a Superstar.   The overriding issue with me, again, is nothing is guaranteed.  The Hawks could have a completely healthy team next season, with ADDITIONS, and still get bumped from the playoffs.  What they did this season is VERY hard.  Its not easy to win a playoff series, much less TWO, superstar or not.  A perfect example is the 1987 Hawks.  They lost that 7 game series to Boston that they should've won.   They looked at their roster and felt that Randy Wittman and Tree Rollins were the weak link.  They signed Reggie Theus and Moses Malone to replace them.  That roster was STACKED.  They had a starting five AND a nice bench.  The 1988 roster was waay better than the previous one which lost in the second round.  Got beat in 5 in the first round against who?  The Bucks.   You play to win now.

I don't think any of the players are giving up or conceding.  So I'm not sure I get your point.  Yes, you play to win now as nothing is guaranteed in the future.  But if they don't win now without Trae, are you going to say the roster is a failure or that this season is a failure?  That's sort of what it sounds like and that would be a completely ridiculous take.  The Hawks are the underdogs WITH Trae and you expect them to march to a NBA Title WITHOUT him??   Come on.  

1 minute ago, Hawkmoor said:

@REHawksFan    THIS is my point.  Trae was 1-11 and the Hawks got rid of Philly in this game:

 

That's a single game.  Not a whole series plus the Finals.  

[Dynamo]

Good assessment by Hawkmoor.”No more excuses”

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

 You play to win now.

Right but one doesn't flow from the other.  Let's use the Bulls since we know what they were with Jordan and without him (or at least there should be less debate about it).

Assumptions:

1. The Bulls were a title winning team with Jordan.
2. The Bulls could make the playoffs but weren't true contenders without Jordan.

So when you say you play to win now that speaks to whether the Bulls should have competed in 1993-94.  I think we both agree the answer is "yes, they should do their very best without him."  Even if they lost Pippen they should keep competing and doing whatever they can.  Play the hand you are dealt and make the most of it even if you realistically can't win a ring because you can win on any given night.

But when you say that the Bulls are a flawed team if they can't win a title without Jordan then I can't join you on that issue.  They won titles in 6 of 8 years and every single season where Jordan played regularly all season.  Whether they could win it all without him is really not relevant to whether the team with him was flawed.  Without Jordan it played out precisely as expected, they got the #3 seed, they won in the first round and lost to the #2 seed in the second round.  Their failure to win the East without Jordan did not illuminate any flaw in the team as constructed with him.

Where this becomes relevant to me is that I don't think it speaks to any fundamental flaw in the Hawks if they can't win the East without Trae and Hunter.  We should play to win now as you say but also recognize that if we fail to win the series, it doesn't mean the team is flawed.  It means we work to keep improving the team and run it back with hopefully some better luck and health next year.  Keep competing, don't quit or back down, and go for it but I don't see the fundamental flawed revealed if we can't win this series without Trae and Hunter.

[bleachkit]

We are trying to win. The fact we brought Hunter back for the NY series shows that. 

[turnermx]

9 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

We are trying to win. The fact we brought Hunter back for the NY series shows that. 

Yes.   I know they want to win and we all want them to win also.  Its not the same as the Bucks situation though.  Their window is supposed to be open.  Hawks window was supposed to be closed.   Lets take a step toward closing the Bucks window lol

[Alex]

Clippers have a deep team and lost their best player.  They have another upper tier guy to shoulder the load and they have other guys stepping up.  Who on the Hawks can fill the void that Trae leaves behind?  
Its unfortunate that Bogi is also ailing because he is really needed right now.  The Hawks depth is comprised of solid to good players.  I don’t see them elevating their game without the cog that runs the offense.  

[High5]

I’m not sure what the complaint is? The team is obviously trying to win now. Are you upset with fans who aren’t ready to throw themselves off a building if the inexperienced and injured underdog team doesn’t go all the way? I’m personally thrilled with how the season has turned out even if we lose the next 2. Sorry

[Hawkmoor]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

I don't think any of the players are giving up or conceding.  So I'm not sure I get your point.  Yes, you play to win now as nothing is guaranteed in the future.  But if they don't win now without Trae, are you going to say the roster is a failure or that this season is a failure?  That's sort of what it sounds like and that would be a completely ridiculous take.  The Hawks are the underdogs WITH Trae and you expect them to march to a NBA Title WITHOUT him??   Come on.  

That's a single game.  Not a whole series plus the Finals.  

The Hawks were BUILT with depth.  Whether that depth translates to wins or not in a single game or every game in a series isn't the point.  Thats why I say that if that DEPTH doesn't work, there is a flaw somewhere.  Travis never looked at this team as being only Trae as a superstar carrying the team.  On the one hand, EVERY year Hawks fans complain about superstars not wanting to come to Atlanta, then wanna disagree that Travis sees that and instead, is building a team of DEPTH that doesn't really on one big superstar. 

Barkley acts like he HATES the Hawks, but even he conceded in the Philly series that the Hawks have a ton of talent across the board.  From a coaching point of view, Nate should be doing what Lue is doing with the Clippers, trying EVERY combination that works.  If that means getting Lou extended minutes,  Skylar, Snell, Cam, etc. then you do it.  One of the elephants in the room is Nate McMillan's playoff record.  I like his matchup combos at times, but I don't like his rotation methods.

[hawkzlova123]

Some people are Bruni g up facts to the discussion. Throw the facts away. We talking talking about pure energy, intensity, and some of that GS vs 1st seed mavs vibes. 

You can't win if you don't believe you can, therefore let's win this sh**

[nathan2331]

9 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

The Hawks were BUILT with depth.  Whether that depth translates to wins or not in a single game or every game in a series isn't the point.  Thats why I say that if that DEPTH doesn't work, there is a flaw somewhere.  Travis never looked at this team as being only Trae as a superstar carrying the team.  On the one hand, EVERY year Hawks fans complain about superstars not wanting to come to Atlanta, then wanna disagree that Travis sees that and instead, is building a team of DEPTH that doesn't really on one big superstar. 

Barkley acts like he HATES the Hawks, but even he conceded in the Philly series that the Hawks have a ton of talent across the board.  From a coaching point of view, Nate should be doing what Lue is doing with the Clippers, trying EVERY combination that works.  If that means getting Lou extended minutes,  Skylar, Snell, Cam, etc. then you do it.  One of the elephants in the room is Nate McMillan's playoff record.  I like his matchup combos at times, but I don't like his rotation methods.

I hear what you're saying, but we don't have that many adjustments that can be made at this point. We haven't tried putting Reddish in the rotation ahead of Bogi and Hill. Even though I'd like to see it, given the circumstances I understand why Nate has decided to keep Reddish on the bench. Okongwu should be getting more minutes since he's looked like our best defender against Giannis, but even then more minutes for him is less for Capela.

At the end of the day, we've got to hit shots. I think we can find easy offense attacking switches with John, but he needs to stay out of foul trouble. I remain optimistic, but I don't think we have many alternatives left.

[RedDawg#8]

As I stated before the playoffs began, and will continue to reiterate as needed; we have achieved every goal that was agreed upon for this season and overachieved virtually all of them as well.

No Moving Goalpasts.

Of course we all want to see this thing through and capitalize on the moment and task at hand.

As K'Von stated "we didn't come this far just to come this far."

But that is all icing on the cake at this point. We have had and exceedingly successful that has gone beyond anyone's expectations. There is no fault, blame, scrutiny, etc... to be had after what these guys have accomplished.

No moving goalposts, just enjoy the ride and hope for the best. Let's keep the magic going

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

Thats why I say that if that DEPTH doesn't work, there is a flaw somewhere.  Travis never looked at this team as being only Trae as a superstar carrying the team. 

The Hawks are built around Trae WITH depth. But there's depth and then there's QUALITY depth, but that quality depth has to actually be available for it to actually matter. If you have starters missing or hobbled it affects the depth.

This team is built around Trae, not that he is meant to carry them solely since as we saw last year when he got fustrated with losing last season and management told him 'Help is on the way'. They didn't tell that to Huerter, but to Trae. He is OUR SUPERSTAR!!!

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I sense a different agenda within this thread.

Hawkmoor has been one of the most outspoken critics of Trae Young all season.

To win without Trae, would then validate "to him" that the Hawks really don't need Trae to win.

 

Yep . . I see what you're doing

 

[Hawkmoor]

10 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

The Hawks were BUILT FOR DEPTH.  That has been Travis's calling card the whole time he has been GM.  The Hawks DEPTH is suppose to overcome Trae going down.  If that depth doesn't, then there is a flaw.

@AHF      DEPTH!   Thats how the Hawks are built and it was PROVEN in this win!!!  No superstar needed!!!

[Hawkmoor]

8 hours ago, Alex said:

Clippers have a deep team and lost their best player.  They have another upper tier guy to shoulder the load and they have other guys stepping up.  Who on the Hawks can fill the void that Trae leaves behind?  
Its unfortunate that Bogi is also ailing because he is really needed right now.  The Hawks depth is comprised of solid to good players.  I don’t see them elevating their game without the cog that runs the offense.  

DEPTH!!!

[Hawkmoor]

10 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

@Hawkmoor after reading your speech I’m like to suit up and run through a wall for you! 
 

HHHHHHHAAAAAAWWWKKKKSSSSS!!!!

DEPTH!!!

[Hawkmoor]

20 hours ago, AHF said:

The Clippers are not winning a ring without Kawhi.  They still have their All-NBA player in Paul George and will win a handful of games without him but they aren't winning a championship.  Granted, George is much better than the next best guy was on the Raptors but I don't think that will be enough.  Maybe Paul George will prove me wrong but I've eliminated them in my mind unless Kawhi comes back. 

The way they can win a ring is to win enough to bridge them back to a return from Kawhi.  They are fortunate enough to be matched against a team without a true superstar so this is much better for them than facing last year's Lakers or something.  Any team can win any game on a given night and kudos to the Clippers for winning two of them.  There is every reason to compete in the playoffs each and every game no matter who you are missing and the good news for them is that they might be able to last long enough for Kawhi to return. 

For the Hawks, we are already down Hunter and if we are down Trae I don't think we can overcome that.  Matched up against a multiple MVP in the playoffs is not the same as the regular season.  I don't think Snell and Skyler can win the series without Trae.  But the Hawks can win a single game if Trae is limping or out.  That is where they should focus and bring it all for tonight's game.  Tie the series up 2-2 and hope Trae can get healthy (assuming he isn't tonight) while the Hawks are still alive.

And if Trae is going to be out, I'll be rooting for the rest of the Hawks to prove me wrong and win a title anyway.  Otherwise, just attack every game and do what you can to win that particular game and hope Trae heals in the meantime.  

Heck, he might even be significantly recovered in time for tonight's game.  No reason to despair for the Hawks but I do think it is better to be honest about the impact of losing Trae on our chances for a championship if that is what we are talking about.

Again, the Bulls did not come close to winning a ring without Michael and that is perfectly ok.  The greatest team in NBA history wasn't flawed just because it needed him to win rings.  

 

Depth.  The Hawks were BUILT for this.  Don't you even keep hearing THEM say it?  Nate has said it.  The players have said it.  Trae is the central piece, but this is a COMPLETE team.   Travis built it that way from day one.  Yesterday proved that.  They can take this chip with or without Trae.