2021 Atlanta Hawks Summer League Thread

[marco102]

Just now, RedDawg#8 said:

I don't disagree about the talent gap on paper, but we are still jumping out on these teams, building and carrying a lead throughout the game. So it's not like we are getting outclassed. The eye-ball test doesn't suggest that we are inferior to our opponents at all. 

It looks a lot like last season before the coaching change where we were losing winnable games, and it was always late game execution that was the culprit. Execution can still fall on the players but I thought it was an interesting parallel between Matt Hill and LP and how we look on the court. These young cats are not being taught how to win the way Nate teaches.

Matt Hill is Nates assistant. He will teach what Nate wants. Not sure how you are drawing this conclusion.

[terrell]

5 hours ago, dalamchops said:

i can see JJ turning out like smoove, not quite a bust, shows flashes of talent but also a head case and could never quite put it together to achieve stardom. though if he's putting up 9WS year like smoove did at his peak that's tremendous value for a 20th pick.

Where is the "headcase" stuff coming from? The kid was pretty much benched after coming back from a foot injury at Duke..Why fk up his draft status by sitting on the sidelines with Coach K( who couldnt care less if he was drafted or not)?.Why not go ahead and train for the draft without having to deal with classes and everything else? Especially when he wasnt 100% healthy......Jalen didnt owe Duke a damn thing...I wouldve left too....He didnt quit. He made a calculated decision...

Edited August 13, 2021 by terrell

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Like I said, he stated a projection and now he has to live with it.

John Collins 5 games summer league rookie year in 23 MPG.

15.4 PPG, 9.2 RPG, 1APG, .8 SPG, .6 BPG, 59.3 FG%

Jalen Johnson through 3 games at 28 MPG.

17 PPG, 10.3 RPG, 1.7APG, .3 SPG, 1.3 BPG, 56.4 FG%

 

Basically Johnson is Collins so far in summer league. less than 3% FG% difference.  JC was 3 months older when he played his first season of summer league.

 

As the game progresses, depth usually wins out. I'm not concerned about it.

Like I said I'm debating his prediction of a bust from watching a few summer league games and reading media reports.

We seem to be coming to the same conclusion we dont think Jalen will be a bust. I also don't have my feathers ruffled. 

Just debating.

I should put this another way. If I prefict you will be a failure, I'm essentially calling you a failure today. You haven't failed, but I'm saying you will right now. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by marco102

[RedDawg#8]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

 

As the game progresses, depth usually wins out. I'm not concerned about it.

Im not either considering Matt Hill is just an assistant coach, not even the top one. 

Just an interesting observation, or so I thought. LP's former hire has our SL team performing like we did under LP.

[thecampster]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Like I said I'm debating his prediction of a bust from watching a few summer league games and reading media reports.

We seem to be coming to the same conclusion we dont think Jalen will be a bust. I also don't have my feathers ruffled. 

Just debating.

I should put this another way. If I prefict you will be a failure, I'm essentially calling you a failure today. You haven't failed, but I'm saying you will right now. 

100% on your side but in a world where a hurricane is bearing down on Florida....to me its meh  not .

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Im not either considering Matt Hill is just an assistant coach, not even the top one. 

Just an interesting observation, or so I thought. LP's former hire has our SL team performing like we did under LP.

Maybe a more accurate correlation is how we were under experienced under LP, undermanned and got similar results. To be fair, LP was pretty undermanned to start last season. Folks were dropping like flies.

 

[hawkman]

Just now, terrell said:

Where is the "headcase" stuff coming from? The kid was benched after coming back from a foot injury at Duke..Why fk up his draft status by sitting on the sidelines with Coach K( who couldnt care less if he was drafted or not)?.Why not go ahead and train for the draft without having to deal with classes and everything else? Especially when he wasnt 100% healthy......Jalen didnt owe Duke a damn thing...I wouldve left too....He didnt quit. He made a calculated decision...

He should've just went to the G League like Jalen Green. Guys like Ball and Green proved to other young prospects that they can bypass the NCAA and still be a lottery pick. Johnson transferring to different high schools was never really an issue since that happens all the time with top prospects. However, that got brought up to establish a narrative since he dared to leave a "hallowed" institution like Duke. The days of the NCAA having the power to rake in mass amounts of $$$ while dictating the trajectory of young prospect's careers are coming to an end. I'm fine with that. The NCAA is changing course now but it may be too little too late. 

[thecampster]

If you wanna make money in Vegas this year, consider this. The Hawks took 34 games to come together and coalesce last year with multiple new pieces (Clint was essentially new, Gallo, Bogi, Rondo) and no real training camp, just 4 preseason games.  The Vegas projections, "expert opinions" are not taking into account Nate gets a full offseason, full training camp, the benefit of the post season appearance. The Hawks played at a 71% clip under Nate last year. That translates to a 58 win total. They also should consider we won't be as injured this season. Projecting 47.5 really seems like a suckers bet.

[RedDawg#8]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Matt Hill is Nates assistant. He will teach what Nate wants. Not sure how you are drawing this conclusion.

LP hired Matt Hill from what I researched, he is a carryover. And Nate still teaches a lot of LP's stuff if we are being technical.

But beyond that, what I'm referring to is game execution, not the X's and O's themselves, and coaching emphasis, such as situational basketball, decision making and teaching moments.

LP  could write an entire thesis about why we lost a game, but he coudn't get the players to "get it" or execute what was so plain for him to see. So far this SL, there doesn't seem to be any game to game improvement from the mistakes we made down the stretch in game 1 which are almost identical to the mistakes made in game 3. If not for a scramble ball 3 pointer at the buzzer, we would have three straight games in an almost identical fashion. 

So, Im not talking about a playbook. Im literally referring to coaching. And I think there is a parallel when LP had the same issues with late game loses, and Matt Hill was his hire.

[RedDawg#8]

20 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Maybe a more accurate correlation is how we were under experienced under LP, undermanned and got similar results. To be fair, LP was pretty undermanned to start last season. Folks were dropping like flies.

 

I can't rock with that because Nate came in and dealt with the same injury issues and still got better results. He didn't change a bunch of X's and O's either. He literally just placed an emphasis on the 4th quarter, and made sure guys were clear about what he needed them to do. 

Again, we are not inferior to our opponents through 3.5 quarters, why would I accept that as an excuse for the last 3-5 minutes of the game?

There's nothing on the line in SL, and what I see is Hill giving them the freedom to play through mistakes. Which is fine. I just hate seeing the same mistakes show up in the same situations. That let's me know coaching is not working properly.

 

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, RedDawg#8 said:

I can't rock with that because Nate came in and dealt with the same injury issues and still got better results. He didn't change a bunch of X's and O's either. He literally just placed an emphasis on the 4th quarter, and made sure guys were clear about what he needed them to do. 

Again, we are not inferior to our opponents through 3.5 quarters, why would I accept that as an excuse for the last 3-5 minutes of the game?

There's nothing on the line in SL, and what I see is Hill giving them the freedom to play through mistakes. Which is fine. I just hate seeing the same mistakes show up in the same situations. That let's me know coaching is not working properly.

 

You might if you consider a few very important things.  Bogi stated he was still recovering from Covid when he came into camp and it was affecting him while playing (said he never had his wind, foot speed). His injury was a blessing as it let him recover. Not having Bogi or Hunter at the same time really hurt him. Although Hunter / Cam was out late, the major improvement to the team from Nate came with the continued focus from Huerter to shore up his positional defense. Kevin learning to stay in front of his man (about game 30 on) was as important as a healthy Bogi.  The major switch from Nate was how he changed from go, go, go with the offense to go fast but Trae don't initiate until everyone is in front of you in the half court, especially in the 4th quarter. Trae's efficiency went up and our defense improved. The improved health of Bogi, Huerter's corner turn and Nate's reduction in t/o by making everyone run ahead so Trae saw all options is what led to the turn around (IMHO).

 

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, terrell said:

Rife is Baby CP3.....

Um, defense?

[marco102]

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

Um, defense?

Sharife's defense isn't as bad as initially thought. 

[niremetal]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You gotta fill out College Park with good gleague players. I seen enough to know that both players would be good in the Gleague.

What's your (and everyone else's) prediction on what we do with Skylar? You thinking we'll give him our second two-way deal?

[RedDawg#8]

2 minutes ago, niremetal said:

What's your (and everyone else's) prediction on what we do with Skylar? You thinking we'll give him our second two-way deal?

We tendered him a contract which I think means we want him back. I think its a 75% chance he get's it, 25% chance we keep our options open for one of the Summer League breakouts who may hit the market

[kg01]

45 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Sharife's defense isn't as bad as initially thought. 

Agree he's not as bad as advertised in that area.  He's a far cry from Paul though (I don't think any of us disagree on that).

[RedDawg#8]

Sharife has the number one thing you need to be a good defender, and that's the willingness to compete on that end.

If you ain't got that, you won't have a chance.

Some guys are just passive on defense, like vintage Harden or Trae. But even when those 2 decide to compete defensively, they are exponentially better than when they don't. 

Trae in playoffs was pretty decent, but that's because his effort level rose to the occasion. 

[bleachkit]

5 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Sharife has the number one thing you need to be a good defender, and that's the willingness to compete on that end.

If you ain't got that, you won't have a chance.

Some guys are just passive on defense, like vintage Harden or Trae. But even when those 2 decide to compete defensively, they are exponentially better than when they don't. 

Trae in playoffs was pretty decent, but that's because his effort level rose to the occasion. 

I disagree. I think one of the most common misconceptions is that defense is all about effort. Makes for nice coach speak, but it's not true. Defense is a skill, like being able to shoot or being able to dunk. No amount of effort would make Shaq a great three point shooter. No amount of effort would make Trae a great dunker. Defense requires length, anticipation, instincts, lateral quickness. Most of that is God given. 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Agree he's not as bad as advertised in that area.  He's a far cry from Paul though (I don't think any of us disagree on that).

Paul wasnt as good as he is now defensively initially..He had question marks too..Thats why I said Baby CP3..lol

From draft express:

With his quick hands and dominant lateral quickness, you would expect Paul to be a dominant defender. However, he is mediocre at best in this area. While he ends up with a lot of steals, he isn't always an aggressive defender.................................................

Wake Forest was a very poor defensive team this season, and it showed up in the tournament. While some of that falls on Skip Prosser's system and a few of Paul's teammates, Paul's inability to lock up primary ball handlers (go back to that West Virginia game again), ..................................

[RandomFan]

Some of the Hawks relevant clips out of this article:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32010903/nba-summer-league-2021-biggest-surprises-disappointments-far-las-vegas

NBA summer league 2021: Biggest surprises and disappointments so far in Las Vegas

1. What has been the biggest surprise so far?

Tim Bontemps: While Jalen Johnson slipped to No. 20 in last month's NBA draft, it wasn't long ago that he was one of the most highly touted recruits in the country. And through the first few days in Las Vegas, it appears the Atlanta Hawks might've landed themselves a steal. Johnson was averaging 17.0 points, 10.3 rebounds and 1.3 blocks through his first three games, and shot over 56% from the field, flashing some impressive skills in the open court. He also has landed in a great situation, where he will play for a coach in Nate McMillan who will make him earn minutes, and on a team where he can be brought along slowly.

_____________________

5. What has been your biggest takeaway from the first week?

Schmitz: Even if Cade Cunningham hasn't had a true signature game quite yet, the depth of the 2021 class has lived up to the hype. Jalen Green is scoring from all over the floor. Evan Mobley is making pull-up 3s and passing like a guard. Jalen Suggs is making winning plays. Scottie Barnes and Jonathan Kuminga have flashed moments of brilliance. Davion Mitchell looks like a future DPOY candidate. Chris Duarte is raining 3s from deep range. Non-lottery picks like Alperen Sengun, Jalen Johnson and Sharife Cooper are shining. This draft will go down as one of the all-time greats.

_______________________

Fact or Fiction: The Rockets have the best rookies from this class.

Bontemps: Fact. The combination of Jalen Green and Alperen Sengun has been impressive so far, while Josh Christopher has had some moments and Usman Garuba is now back. Then again, Houston ought to have the most talent here with four first-round picks, including two of the top 16 selections in the draft. But there has been an impressive amount of talent on display this week across the board, as many members of this year's rookie class -- plus the second-year guys in attendance -- have had their moments.

Lopez: Fiction. Houston's depth stands out -- Green, Sengun, Garuba and Christopher -- but I like the high-end potential of both Jonathan Kuminga and Moses Moody in Golden State. The Warriors legitimately could have picked either player at No. 7, and they wound up with both players. They are also going into a win-now situation with the Warriors with the right setup around both of them, surrounded by veterans who are going to push them to make the most of their contributions.

Pelton: Fact. Houston's rookie corps got even stronger Thursday when No. 23 pick Garuba made his debut after completing a buyout with Spanish power Real Madrid. That depth is unmatched by any other team.

Schmitz: Fact. Green is torching defenses with the scoring instincts of a longtime All-Star, Sengun looks like the steal of the draft, and Christopher is more than backing up his first-round selection. With that said, I think Atlanta has also been one of the big winners with Jalen Johnson looking like a top-10 pick and Cooper showing his incredible natural ability.

Young: Fiction. The Magic's Suggs and Franz Wagner are the best group so far. Suggs has been off to a roaring start as expected, while Wagner showcased some versatility with his shooting and ballhandling, and even stood tall defensively against No. 3 overall pick Evan Mobley.