Hunter is becoming Marv

[AHF]

On 2/26/2022 at 3:31 PM, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

His midrange game was looking great, before he got hurt last season.

But other than a slight uptick in 3 point shooting, it's basically no difference.

I am at the point where I kind of think last season was just a hot streak.  We are talking about 1 month of games (16 games) where he was at that level.  The other 101 games he played over his career (including 62 as a rookie and 31 this year) have not been particularly close to that.  

Over that 2020-21 hot stretch, he averaged:

17.9 points on 51.7% FG% / 37.5% 3pt% / 87.7% FT%

5.6 rebounds

2.3 assists

1.4 blocks + steals

 

For the rest of his career, he is:

12.0 points on 41.6% FG% / 35.2% 3pt% / 74.8% FT%

4.0 rebounds

1.5 assists

1.0 blocks + steals

 

His stats this season are largely in line with his non-hot-month career numbers:

12.7 points on 44.0% FG% / 37.9% 3pt% / 72.2% FT%

3.3 rebounds

1.3 assists

0.9 blocks + steals

 

I think a lot of us got suckered into thinking that hot month represented a new developmental plateau or baseline for his performance but the more time passes the more it looks like that month is the outlier.  While he and JC are the same age, I just don't see the improvements across Hunter's games that I have seen from JC.  Health has been an impediment and I've definitely not given up on him taking some significant steps forward but now is the time for that as a 24 year old player.  He has the body to be a better rebounder.  Has the physical tools, IQ and the mental discipline to be an impact defender.  Has the tools to be more impactful on offense but he remains pretty subpar at everything other than positional defense.

[RedDawg#8]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I am at the point where I kind of think last season was just a hot streak.  We are talking about 1 month of games (16 games) where he was at that level.  The other 101 games he played over his career (including 62 as a rookie and 31 this year) have not been particularly close to that.  

Over that 2020-21 hot stretch, he averaged:

17.9 points on 51.7% FG% / 37.5% 3pt% / 87.7% FT%

5.6 rebounds

2.3 assists

1.4 blocks + steals

 

For the rest of his career, he is:

12.0 points on 41.6% FG% / 35.2% 3pt% / 74.8% FT%

4.0 rebounds

1.5 assists

1.0 blocks + steals

 

His stats this season are largely in line with his non-hot-month career numbers:

12.7 points on 44.0% FG% / 37.9% 3pt% / 72.2% FT%

3.3 rebounds

1.3 assists

0.9 blocks + steals

 

I think a lot of us got suckered into thinking that hot month represented a new developmental plateau or baseline for his performance but the more time passes the more it looks like that month is the outlier.  While he and JC are the same age, I just don't see the improvements across Hunter's games that I have seen from JC.  Health has been an impediment and I've definitely not given up on him taking some significant steps forward but now is the time for that as a 24 year old player.  He has the body to be a better rebounder.  Has the physical tools, IQ and the mental discipline to be an impact defender.  Has the tools to be more impactful on offense but he remains pretty subpar at everything other than positional defense.

I think momentum plays a huge part as well. The summer before last season, Dre was putting in work and looking legit in his pickup games, and that carried over in to the season. Since his injury, he has been in and out of the lineup. He spent this past summer rehabbing and not doing a ton of full court. And, they typically don't do a lot of 5 on 5's during the season. 

He was starting to look better this season before going down again with injury. I just think there hasn't been a consistent stretch of health that would allow him to work back in to his pre-injury form. 

That's why I say wait to see what happens once he has a (hopefully) healthy offseason to refine his game and get his confidence back.

His hot streak wasn't a matter of him just getting scorching hot shooting, like Bogi was last season. He was able to attack of the dribble and break his defender down, as well as punish mismatches in the post. That isn't something that just comes and goes. Those tools are still there, he just hasn't been able to put it all together on the court.

If we trade him in a deal for a big piece, Im ok with that. But Im not willing to pull a Cam trade just to move him. I think there is more there given health.

 

 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, RedDawg#8 said:

If we trade him in a deal for a big piece, Im ok with that. But Im not willing to pull a Cam trade just to move him. I think there is more there given health.

I'm not suggesting that at all.  No need to simply move him to move him or anything like that.  Still want to give him the time and support to develop.  I've just readjusted my expectations at this point so if he becomes an 18 ppg, 6 rpg guy then I'll be pleasantly surprised and if he becomes a 14 ppg, 5 rpg guy then I won't feel let down.  Until he is no longer a Hawk, I'll be rooting for  him every game and hopeful to see continued improvement.  I imagine that the drivers for a Cam trade (wanted a bigger, starting role, etc.) just don't apply to Hunter since he has had every opportunity to start and take on key minutes whenever he has been healthy enough to play.

[Atlantaholic]

Hunter is fn garbage at both ends of the floor. I would trade him for Marvin Williams in a split second. I'm done with Hunter, I'd trade him for a bag of chips.

[Sothron]

I told you guys before the trading deadline same as @NBASupes and @thecampster that Travis is really high on Hunter. I think he is too high on him. We thought the growth we saw last season from Hunter was him reaching a new height like we've seen from Trae and Collins. But this season is showing maybe it was a mirage. 

 

[Spud2nique]

On 2/14/2022 at 7:15 AM, Spud2nique said:

I usually don’t make directly comparison individual threads but this dude needs to step up.

Hunter has the body, needs more heart.

Drop the nice guy BS and ball bro.

Hunter is Marv. Did you guys forget all those nights when Marv needed to show up and he would lay an egg? 
 

0-8 FG…..comon man.

I know dude plays awesome D but he’s almost becoming a liability on offense. He makes this awkward tough moves, gets no call because the defender allows him to make million dollar moves with 10 cent finishes. 
 

Put the ball in the hole 🕳, layups, midrange, whatever.

 

He needs to make his moves more simple but more deliberate. 

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, Sothron said:

I told you guys before the trading deadline same as @NBASupes and @thecampster that Travis is really high on Hunter. I think he is too high on him. We thought the growth we saw last season from Hunter was him reaching a new height like we've seen from Trae and Collins. But this season is showing maybe it was a mirage. 

 

I realize that Hunter is struggling because they are forcing him into a shoot 3's take it hard to the basket guy but he is the single reason we lost the game last night. 0-8 from the floor with some awful misses that turned into easy buckets at the defensive end.  There are 3 types of misses in the NBA, your feet are set. 1) you shoot with confidence but sometimes the ball doesn't go in or 2) you see your guys in position and you toss up a shot regardless of your readiness to take the shot because you know the chance for an offensive rebound is high and the shot, regardless of its intent will result in a better than average chance at a basket being made. Three is what you constantly hear announcers say was a bad shot. 3) Offensive rebounding is not in place, transition defense is not clearly possible because movement/pick setting is still occurring.  The player is not set but sees an opening to shoot clearly and get his (even if the coach told him to) and the ball rebounds out, usually long because of the distance of the shot and it starts a transition sequence.

At least half of Hunter's misses are option 3. If you DVR'd the game last night, go back and stop for each of Hunter's shots. Watch through the lens of what I just said and you'll see what I mean.  8 bad shots = 8 less possible points for us and 8 more possible points for the opponent (because teams make 1/2 their shots).  A statistical 16 point swing. We lost by 9.

As Soth says, the Hawks are high on Hunter and its killing me to watch.

[Atlantaholic]

Delon and Bogi should be getting the majority of the wing minutes. I f don't wanna hear another word about Hunter's great defense, he is slow and can't fight over screens, is just as slow to rotate as Bogi and Huerter and is one of the worst rebounders on the entire team including PGs. Delon is twice the defender Hunter is and at least Bogi gets a deflection or two here and there. 

[Atlantaholic]

On 2/28/2022 at 9:18 AM, AHF said:

I am at the point where I kind of think last season was just a hot streak.  We are talking about 1 month of games (16 games) where he was at that level.  The other 101 games he played over his career (including 62 as a rookie and 31 this year) have not been particularly close to that.  

Over that 2020-21 hot stretch, he averaged:

17.9 points on 51.7% FG% / 37.5% 3pt% / 87.7% FT%

5.6 rebounds

2.3 assists

1.4 blocks + steals

 

For the rest of his career, he is:

12.0 points on 41.6% FG% / 35.2% 3pt% / 74.8% FT%

4.0 rebounds

1.5 assists

1.0 blocks + steals

 

His stats this season are largely in line with his non-hot-month career numbers:

12.7 points on 44.0% FG% / 37.9% 3pt% / 72.2% FT%

3.3 rebounds

1.3 assists

0.9 blocks + steals

 

I think a lot of us got suckered into thinking that hot month represented a new developmental plateau or baseline for his performance but the more time passes the more it looks like that month is the outlier.  While he and JC are the same age, I just don't see the improvements across Hunter's games that I have seen from JC.  Health has been an impediment and I've definitely not given up on him taking some significant steps forward but now is the time for that as a 24 year old player.  He has the body to be a better rebounder.  Has the physical tools, IQ and the mental discipline to be an impact defender.  Has the tools to be more impactful on offense but he remains pretty subpar at everything other than positional defense.

Worth noting he didn't rebound in college either. 

[Spud2nique]

Hunter is Marv. Soft a$$ bit

[AHF]

Some more numbers on our 2019 draft:

Sadly, that 2019 just looks terrible right now.  Here is where our guys rank:

Hunter - #4 pick, #28 total win shares, #40 in WS/48, #42 BPM, #57 VORP

Reddish - #10 pick, #34 total win shares, #46 in WS/48, #39 BPM, #54 VORP

That Value Over Replacement Player number is incredible.  Hunter has a better number than exactly one player from this class.  

I'm not throwing in the towel on Hunter but it is ugly right now.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I'm not throwing in the towel on Hunter but it is ugly right now

I'm here too, but it is concerning.

[Spud2nique]

14 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

Hunter is fn garbage at both ends of the floor. I would trade him for Marvin Williams in a split second. I'm done with Hunter, I'd trade him for a bag of chips.

I feel sorry for his body. It’s not being properly and efficiently used on the court. Shame.

Its like having a race car 🏎 and not knowing how to drive the thing.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Spud2nique

[thecampster]

Its not just the misses but super low IQ on some of them.  He's forcing things when a paint defender is set, He's not shooting from outside with confidence. You even see it at the line. He's so far inside his own head right now, there is no getting out.

[Spud2nique]

Jump shot X 6 (a couple matched up against Williams and Horford)

2 missed layups (Horford Smart)

Possibly scared of getting injured again also. I can’t blame him there but it’s hard to play scared, if that’s the case, if it’s mental, ignore Nate and just ball lol.

[Spud2nique]

18/3 with a couple made 3’s but aggressive on O and a beast on D.

He had a tough assignment in Derozan and shut him out at the end. Nice work D.

[AHF]

13 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

18/3 with a couple made 3’s but aggressive on O and a beast on D.

He had a tough assignment in Derozan and shut him out at the end. Nice work D.

Definitely what we want to see from him more often.  Was a very nice bounce-back effort.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Definitely what we want to see from him more often.  Was a very nice bounce-back effort.

Ya, I honestly don’t make threads to go off on an individual but I know Hunter has it in him and it kills to watch him tease himself and us with it.

Huge credit though, DD is an absolute tough cover because he’s almost perfected that 15-20 footer and he hangs till you hang less, often works but Dre wasn’t having it.

I applaud the performance for sure. His D is one of the main reasons we got the W. 

[AHF]

3 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Ya, I honestly don’t make threads to go off on an individual but I know Hunter has it in him and it kills to watch him tease himself and us with it.

Huge credit though, DD is an absolute tough cover because he’s almost perfected that 15-20 footer and he hangs till you hang less, often works but Dre wasn’t having it.

I applaud the performance for sure. His D is one of the main reasons we got the W. 

Him being an impact defender is critical to his success with the team even more than his offense or rebounding.  He needs to be a standout positional defender who makes it tough for people to get to their spots or get good looks.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Him being an impact defender is critical to his success with the team even more than his offense or rebounding.  He needs to be a standout positional defender who makes it tough for people to get to their spots or get good looks.

Agreed he could be a Buck Williams type, a Dennis Rodman type, so long as he finds his niche within our system. Kinda like Mikal in Phoenix. That would be ideal moving forward with Trae.