Hunter is becoming Marv

[Atlantaholic]

On 3/16/2022 at 3:13 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

I've been railing at DHunt for his lack of  rebounding but I like these numbers:

 

 

The thing is if you look at his college numbers Hunter has NEVER rebounded. Ever. I don't think it's realistic to expect he will suddenly rebound. Now, I don't understand why that is, but it is what is. As long as he can be efficient scoring that's all we can hope for.

I'm kind of puzzled by his defensive metric though, they range from bad to meh. I think it matches up with the eye test too, there are certain matchups where he struggles, other's where he dominates, but I feel his weakness is team defense. He is late rotating (like everyone else except Delon), and doesn't make good quick decisions on help either. 

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

The thing is if you look at his college numbers Hunter has NEVER rebounded. Ever. I don't think it's realistic to expect he will suddenly rebound. Now, I don't understand why that is, but it is what is. As long as he can be efficient scoring that's all we can hope for.

I'm kind of puzzled by his defensive metric though, they range from bad to meh. I think it matches up with the eye test too, there are certain matchups where he struggles, other's where he dominates, but I feel his weakness is team defense. He is late rotating (like everyone else except Delon), and doesn't make good quick decisions on help either. 

He looks good defensively any time he's not playing with Trae 

[Spud2nique]

28 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

He is late rotating (like everyone else except Delon), and doesn't make good quick decisions on help either.

He did last night. Helped and swatted the snot outta Ja. 

[JayBirdHawk]

De’Andre Hunter is lost

Here’s how you know single-game plus-minus can be deceiving: De’Andre Hunter had, by far, the best single-game plus-minus for the Hawks on Friday night. He finished plus-16; the next closest was Capela, who finished with a zero plus-minus.

Hunter looked borderline unplayable against the Heat. He struggled finishing at the rim. He struggled with his shot. He struggled handling the ball in transition. He struggled keeping guys in front of him defensively. He, quite simply, did nothing well in this game. Hunter didn’t record a point, rebound or assist until 10:33 left in the fourth quarter when he hit a jumper.

It was notable that McMillan didn’t have Hunter on the floor in crunchtime in this game, instead going with Bogdanović and Gallinari on the floor. McMillan was asked why Hunter was on the bench in closing time.

“I had to give him a breather,” McMillan said. “That offensive team we had out there, I felt Bogi was playing well. Gallo, we were going to spread the floor with him. I had to give him a breather. We had a pretty decent rhythm out there. We just needed to execute.”

Hunter started the fourth quarter and went to the bench with 5:03 left. Bogdanović, with his sore right knee, played from the 8:38 mark in the third quarter until the end of the game. I don’t think Hunter’s benching late in the game had anything to do with needing a breather, truthfully.

The starting small forward spot for the Hawks this season has been a glaring issue that needs improvement this offseason — whether it comes from Hunter getting a full offseason of training or through upgrading the roster externally. The Hawks just haven’t been getting close to average play at the three with Hunter in most of their games, and it’s hurt them. Sure, everyone has an off night, but he’s been mostly down all season. His defense, the one thing the Hawks were relying on when they drafted him, isn’t even great at this point either.

You’d hope that a healthy offseason is what he needs because we saw someone who could be special before he tore his meniscus early last season. His two-way potential was tantalizing. The problem, though, is that player looks lightyears away now. And, for the Hawks, that 2019 draft currently looks like a wash with Cam Reddish having been traded already and Hunter having regressed mightily.

Via The Athletic 

[hylndr11]

I mean its got to be a health related thing, u dont forget what to do, he just look totally different than when hes had a few good runs.

[Final_quest]

Last night was the first time I thought, “Maybe we should have kept Cam instead of Hunter.”

[JayBirdHawk]

Bounce back game for Hunter.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022101221&PlayerID=1629631&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612737&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

 

He had some easy misses at the rim again, if only he can clean that up, don't need him developing the missed technique from Clint.

[terrell]

32 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Bounce back game for Hunter.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGA&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=28800&GameID=0022101221&PlayerID=1629631&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612737&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

 

He had some easy misses at the rim again, if only he can clean that up, don't need him developing the missed technique from Clint.

He played better(he couldnt be any worse) but..............

2 rebounds and 0 assists though.. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Kind of hard to count a game vs the worst team in the league, as being your "bounce back" game.

Still only 2 rebounds.

Hunter is a SG.  That means we have 3 SGs in the rotation and Zero SFs.

 

 

[Atlantaholic]

We can't go in next year with Hunter having a "resurgence" after a full off season as our only plan at SF. Not sure how but we need to acquire some competition for Hunter there. Bogi and Huerter are both 2 guards, we really don't have a quality SF on the entire team. 

[Atlantaholic]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Kind of hard to count a game vs the worst team in the league, as being your "bounce back" game.

Still only 2 rebounds.

Hunter is a SG.  That means we have 3 SGs in the rotation and Zero SFs.

 

 

Hunter is a 3, he doesn't have the quickness to guard 2s on defense and can't even handle the ball for an SF let a lone for a guard. He's just a really bad SF but still a SF. He's not really playable at the 2 IMHO. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

A simple exercise I do to see what impact a player actually has on a game, is to simply look at the position he plays, and see where he ranks in key stats, according to minutes played.  My theory is, the more minutes you play, the more chances you have to impact the stat sheet.

Out of 117 players listed as SF according to hoopsstats.com, Hunter ranks 25th in minutes.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/22/4/min/1-1

 

So what I like to do is see how each player rank in a statistical category, according to minutes played.  For example, LeBron led the league in minutes at SF, at 37.2 min per game.  So to me, he should be 1st or near 1st in every category among SFs, if he's making a game impact.

• Points:  1st
• Rebounds:  1st
• Assists:  1st
• Steals:  8th
• Blocks:  T 32nd ( 0.4 per game )

 

Here is how De'Andre stacks up, doing the same thing. Once again, he's 25th in minutes.  So anything above 25th is a positive.  Anything below 25th is a negatives

• Minutes:  25th  -  ( Herbert Jones )
• Points:  23rd  -  ( Miles Bridges )
• Rebounds:  46th  -  ( Johnathan Kuminga . . . only plays 17 min/game )
• Assists:   T 47th  -  ( Pat Connaughton )
• Steals:  T 46th  -  ( Harrison Barnes )
• Blocks:  T 30th  -  ( Paul George )

 

Also, if you consider that anything about 32nd = a starting SF, Hunter ranks below starter quality in 3 out of the 5 categories.

I call him a SG.   If we transfer his numbers and compare him to SGs, here's how he would rank. ( players in parenthesis is the player statistically closest to Dre in each category )

• Minutes:  T 22nd  -  ( Issac Okoro )
• Points:  T 27th  -  ( Kentavious Caldwell-Pope )
• Rebounds:  T 47th  -  ( Grayson Allen )
• Steals:  T 66th  -  ( Austin Rivers )
• Blocks:  T 47th  -  ( Buddy Hield )

 

His lack of activity as a player, especially as a defensive player, is the most alarming thing about him. He doesn't rebound. He doesn't get steals. He doesn't get the occasional weak side or help block.  He doesn't get deflections.  He doesn't draw charges.

He has offensive worth, especially when he's getting shots in the midrange.  But he's not an aggressive offensive player.  

He's just . . . a guy . . . who may play 10 more years in the league, but may not get any better than he is right now.

[FL_BRYANT]

If the HAWKS ran a fast break once in a while it might help Hunter get off. Play with more pace. With all the young players on the roster especially when they  had Cam why aren't they running. It would help when shots aren't dropping plus it would spread the court  for open shots. You get your wings involved instead of just being spectators for extended periods of time. 

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, FL_BRYANT said:

If the HAWKS ran a fast break once in a while it might help Hunter get off. Play with more pace. With all the young players on the roster especially when they  had Cam why aren't they running. It would help when shots aren't dropping plus it would spread the court  for open shots. You get your wings involved instead of just being spectators for extended periods of time. 

It's three fold:

1. Trae comes back to the ball after a rebound (usually by the bigs), giving the other team a chance to set their defense so no fastbreak opportunities.

2. Our guys don't sprint up the court to THE FRONT of the rim after a rebound, except Capela who gets easy dunks...the others stay at the 3pt line.

3. If our wings and in particularly Hunter were better rebounder (and ball handler), they/he could initiate the offense and/or bring the ball up court quickly looking for a easy score.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

45 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

His lack of activity as a player, especially as a defensive player, is the most alarming thing about him. He doesn't rebound. He doesn't get steals. He doesn't get the occasional weak side or help block.  He doesn't get deflections.  He doesn't draw charges.

Hunter is a point of attack man to man positional defender,  that's his strength.

With his wingspan you'd think he get more deflections.

Weakside shot blocking and steals are anticipatory defensive plays - that's not currently his skillset.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Kind of hard to count a game vs the worst team in the league, as being your "bounce back" game.

Still only 2 rebounds.

Hunter is a SG.  That means we have 3 SGs in the rotation and Zero SFs.

 

 

With the way the Hawks have been on again, off again against bad teams - I'm counting it. Better to get in a rhythm for Wednesday's game than not.

[FL_BRYANT]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's three fold:

1. Trae comes back to the ball after a rebound (usually by the bigs), giving the other team a chance to set their defense so no fastbreak opportunities.

2. Our guys don't sprint up the court to THE FRONT of the rim after a rebound, except Capela who gets easy dunks...the others stay at the 3pt line.

3. If our wings and in particularly Hunter were better rebounder (and ball handler), they/he could initiate the offense and/or bring the ball up court quickly looking for a easy score.

 

Good points. For the Hawks to take the next step guys have to stop completely deferring to Trae. Plus Trae has to be willing to give up the ball and trust his teammates. The only number that really  matters at the end of the day is the number of wins. The HAWKS are barely above five hundred. We may not make the playoffs.  Something has to change. 

[Bonkers]

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's three fold:

1. Trae comes back to the ball after a rebound (usually by the bigs), giving the other team a chance to set their defense so no fastbreak opportunities.

2. Our guys don't sprint up the court to THE FRONT of the rim after a rebound, except Capela who gets easy dunks...the others stay at the 3pt line.

3. If our wings and in particularly Hunter were better rebounder (and ball handler), they/he could initiate the offense and/or bring the ball up court quickly looking for a easy score.

 

The Hawks should be playing like the Nash-Amare Suns

I have no idea why they don't. Well yea I do...Nate isn't Mike D'antoni.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Bonkers

[TheNorthCydeRises]

8 minutes ago, FL_BRYANT said:

Good points. For the Hawks to take the next step guys have to stop completely deferring to Trae. Plus Trae has to be willing to give up the ball and trust his teammates. The only number that really  matters at the end of the day is the number of wins. The HAWKS are barely above five hundred. We may not make the playoffs.  Something has to change. 

 

We have the 2nd best offense in the league.  Deferring to Trae isn't the issue.  There are skill sets, "motors", and physical attributes that our wings simply don't have.

Trae gets guys wide open shots either from the perimeter or going to the basket.  Wasn't it Hunter earlier this week who completely blew a 3 on 1 fast break?

At some point, just like we did with Cam, you have to start putting some of the blame on the wings themselves.  

To JayBird's point, there's nothing stopping Dre blocking someone out and crashing the defensive boards, grabbing the rebound, and racing the ball up the court himself . . . unless he can't do it.  If his fast break skill set is only as the finisher on the break, he's limited in what he can do.

It just might be time to admit that the kid is OK, but just can't be expected to dramatically improve his game.  If he's the new "Marvin", let's temper the expectations for potential, accept who he is, and see if we can upgrade the position.

[Bonkers]

Dre should be the Shawn Marion of this team but....he isn't