Should Nate be fired?

[AHF]

8 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

I mean the Miami series proved that pretty emphatically, they pretty much dominated us. 

Running our pick and roll without CC and JC is like running it without Trae.  Miami might very well have been able to shut it down but we didn't have the personnel to run it and so they didn't even have to face it.  (JC couldn't catch a lob during that series so let's not pretend like he was viable on the PnR.)  

Miami did a great job against us and we didn't show the ability to adjust effectively but let's not pretend like that was our normal offense and it got eliminated.

[macdaddy]

Nate deserves criticism for sure.  But where's even a small amount of credit for anything?   on january 15th the Hawks were 17-25 and finished the season 45-39.   And then won 2 play in games.   The team can play, Nate has them staying together and playing winning ball for the most part.  There's a lot to improve upon for sure and I don't know if Nate should be around after this year or not.  We'll see.  

 

 

[Diesel]

51 minutes ago, AHF said:

Running our pick and roll without CC and JC is like running it without Trae.  Miami might very well have been able to shut it down but we didn't have the personnel to run it and so they didn't even have to face it.  (JC couldn't catch a lob during that series so let's not pretend like he was viable on the PnR.)  

Miami did a great job against us and we didn't show the ability to adjust effectively but let's not pretend like that was our normal offense and it got eliminated.

my point exactly.

The only thing we can come away with is that we should have more consistent scorers on other aspects of our offense.   Knowing that our PNR/PNP/Lob/Float game was ragedy.... Miami was able to put more of their defensive resources on Trae.  Casual fans don't understand that the threat of the PNR/PNP/LOB/Float game gives Trae the ability to be dangerous all over the court and makes his gravity much higher than the average PG. 

So we hear all of these trade rumors... that may address then need for secondary scorers but at the same time dismantles the PNR/PNP/LB/Float game that makes Trae a three way threat?

Listen.. I hear the talk of bringing in somebody that would make Trae play off ball.   That's really a foreign thought.   I don't want to see Trae becoming a corner three specialist.  He would do it and would be great at it but it would limit him terribly.

[Diesel]

35 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Nate deserves criticism for sure.  But where's even a small amount of credit for anything?   on january 15th the Hawks were 17-25 and finished the season 45-39.   And then won 2 play in games.   The team can play, Nate has them staying together and playing winning ball for the most part.  There's a lot to improve upon for sure and I don't know if Nate should be around after this year or not.  We'll see.  

 

 

Very true!!

I was looking at the standings going into the playoffs.  Do you know that we finished 7-3.  There was only one team in the East that finished better than we did (Toronto). 

This is why I'm for tweeking and not for the major overhaul that most fans are calling for.   I think we have a team that is better than our record says and it is more indicative of how we finished these last two seasons while somewhat healthy. 

We finished 7-3 and JC didn't play in one of those games. 

We mopped the floor with Charlotte and we beat a very good Cleveland team (without CC in the 2nd half).   We are better than our record says. 

 

[Wretch]

Personally, I think the priority has to be on fixing the holes in the ship before we mutiny on the captain.  Is that a good analogy? lol  To me, we've had the same problems the last 2 seasons.  Toughness and a reliable second option.  If we don't address those things, then I don't expect we will do much of nothing...regardless of who's coaching.

More or less, do I think a better coach could get more out of this team as it were...but what does that look like?  Without "good" Bogi (or someone else stepping up), I don't like our odds in a best of 7 second round series against any of our would-be opponents.  And that' without teams making adjustments or otherwise coming back better....

It's not time to fire Nate IMO, but it is time to start looking at him...AND Schlenk.  I honestly feel like they'll both be let go if we don't recapture that upwards trend from 2021.

[JayBirdHawk]

 

said early in the season, not a fan of Nate-Offense 

[Hawkmoor]

[Diesel]

[JayBirdHawk]

Jazz have the right to block Quin Snyder from coaching in 2022-23

Tim MacMahon: Because Quin Snyder had a guaranteed year remaining on his contract, the Jazz would have the right to block him from coaching next season, a source told ESPN.

 

– via Twitter espn_macmahon

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Jazz have the right to block Quin Snyder from coaching in 2022-23

Tim MacMahon: Because Quin Snyder had a guaranteed year remaining on his contract, the Jazz would have the right to block him from coaching next season, a source told ESPN.

 

– via Twitter espn_macmahon

Same situation as when Bud left.

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

Same situation as when Bud left.

Think Danny strAinge will do it?

[AHF]

29 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Think Danny strAinge will do it?

I’d guess that Ainge will get an agreement on a buyout to let him go be someone else’s head coach.  But that won’t happen until Snyder knows someone will pick him up at an acceptable salary.  

[macdaddy]

12 hours ago, AHF said:

I’d guess that Ainge will get an agreement on a buyout to let him go be someone else’s head coach.  But that won’t happen until Snyder knows someone will pick him up at an acceptable salary.  

Folks lost their mind that Bud got a buyout.   Wonder if folks will feel the same about Snyder. 

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

[kg01]

45 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

Haha, like 75% of the board just hit I-85 with throwback Kemba jerseys on.  The Atkinson worship is real among us.

[AHF]

On 6/7/2022 at 9:13 AM, macdaddy said:

Folks lost their mind that Bud got a buyout.   Wonder if folks will feel the same about Snyder. 

Bud didn’t get a buyout.  If he wanted to go coach a team, asking for a buyout would have been the right thing to do.  Instead, he insisted on getting 100% of his salary to go coach a competitor after he had ruined the roster as the higher ranking 1/2 of Budcox.
 

If Snyder wants to coach another team while he is under contract, he should take a buyout and walk away with a fraction of his salary rather than the whole thing.

[NBASupes]

On 6/3/2022 at 8:31 AM, Diesel said:

My statement your offensive is built around your personnel was just proven by you....

Draymond Green. 

Leads the warriors in Assist per game.   The offense runs through him.  But he's 6'6" 230 lbs.  He's no PG... He's not even the SG.. he's the PF.   However, he has ball handling and BBIQ.   So Kerr Said... instead of making you play out of position at PF and make you do things that you don't do so well, I'm going to put the offense in your hands because that will improve our offense and play to your strengths.  If they traded Draymond for JC... then the offense would have to change. 

We use the pick and roll.. not because it's Nate's favorite offense and he makes players conform to it.  We play the PNR because it plays to Trae's strengths.  But I still believe that Nate should have a very short leash.   The things that he's doing is the things that he has always done.  Him shortening the rotation from 10 to 8 players is a sign that he wanted to continue to walk it up.  I'm not for the slowness of offense.  If our offensive is predictable and unimaginative and ineffective then we should be letting Nate go by Jan.   However, if the wins are coming and even if we're slow... and the wins are coming, we should keep Nate on through the playoffs. 

 

 

 

Say what you want but spamming the 1/5 PnR lead us to the best offense in the east and 2nd best offense in the NBA even if it's spammy. 

[Hawkmoor]

On 6/6/2022 at 7:21 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Jazz have the right to block Quin Snyder from coaching in 2022-23

Tim MacMahon: Because Quin Snyder had a guaranteed year remaining on his contract, the Jazz would have the right to block him from coaching next season, a source told ESPN.

 

– via Twitter espn_macmahon

It would cost the Hawks a trade to get him from the Jazz this upcoming season.

[Diesel]

I thought about the question.. should Nate be fired.

Ran it through the dieselputer... many iterations. 

Now, I want to backtrack..

I think Nate SHOULD be fired.   Not that he's done anything wrong.   I don't think Nate is the best guy for this job anymore.   We know what a Nate team does.  They slow the pace.  They run an 8 man rotation.  They play ever possession like we're in the playoffs... and their offense becomes predictable. 

And don't get me wrong, Nate can coach us up pass some teams that maybe we're not supposed to beat like Philly last year and Cleveland in the playin...

BUT... the lack of development.. the lack of speed.. and the lack of offensive creativity will hold us back.

Quinn Snyder is not the answer though.   He couldn't win with Utah.

The answer may be... D'Antoni.

We need somebody who will get this team to run. 

I'm for keeping Nate on a short leash and I would strongly advise an Offensive Coordinator.  IF Defense is Nate's calling card, he should do that mainly.. but let one of these offensive creative guys work an offense that fit's us..  I'm tired of seeing us last in fast break points.

[sturt]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

Nate can coach us up pass some teams that maybe we're not supposed to beat like Philly last year and Cleveland in the playin...

Um. Nah. To me, this is the very essence of why Nate's been a staple of this league all these years... he's rarely been given a roster that could be considered elite, but he's routinely been able to get a little more out of his teams than should have been expected.

 

This is another reason 2021-22 has to be evaluated on the basis of Real Hawks versus Gumbo Hawks. When Nate has horses and isn't having to make adjustments for significant deficits in his rotation? Golden.

 

Also think the theory is true that fans tend to get bored with their coaches routinely and quickly, and they begin to think they know better than the head coach.

 

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

We know what a Nate team does.  They slow the pace.  They run an 8 man rotation.  They play ever possession like we're in the playoffs... and their offense becomes predictable.  .... We need somebody who will get this team to run....  I'm tired of seeing us last in fast break points.

Not really. It's about pace more than it is about fast break points. Nate's 21-22 team evidenced that, and how many times did we hear Nate comment after a game, that the victory (or loss for that matter) was a product of how Trae had been able to push the ball (or not). He's said multiple times, he's not against quick shots as a rule, but quick low-percentage shots. We saw in 21-22 a team that gained chemistry rapidly once Nate took over, and held on to that chemistry for virtually all of the rest of the season. Nate knows what he's doing. Like it or not. He does.

 

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

IF Defense is Nate's calling card, he should do that mainly

The two are not unrelated. Nate's philosophy it seems to me... at least in part... is to give his five guys the best opportunity to square up and not have to play fast break defense. That's sound.

 

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

I don't think Nate is the best guy for this job anymore.

It's like marriage... there's not really one out there who can be considered "best."

Rather, there is a pool of people who are in a tier that are more likely than other tiers below them to optimize the team's success... but they're not really that discernible from one another because even in that upper tier, there are strengths and weaknesses.

I believe the highest-regarded coaches emerge from the tier where Nate lives right now.

He's not in that highest tier of highest-regarded coaches, but he's one NBA title from being there. No question. Few get there, and few get there for that very reason. It's the most difficult hill to climb. A lot of things have to go right.

And here's the thing... it's exceptionally rare that a highest-regarded coach takes two different teams to a title. So even when you're in that upper tier, there's still reason to be skeptical that they can do it again in a whole other context.

I think Nate is... a... coach who is right for this team. And for the same reasons you don't want your football team to be constantly having to re-adjust to a new head coach, there's reason to not be peeking over the fence at the grass on the other side.... building familiarity may be boring, but it's actually a good, smart thing.

And lastly, I'm not sure I can be convinced that head coaches aren't like presidents... too much credit when something good happens, too much criticism when something bad happens. Only a very few coaches, imo, are responsible for extra Ws, and only a very few coaches are responsible for extra Ls. Game outcomes are far more affected... far more... by the talent on the roster. Your GM's competence really is the big rock on the scale.