The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[marco102]

Lol y'all can flame away on this, but I've seen a lot of "bad" defenders play good defense when the offensive load isn't all on them. 

We'd def have to upgrade our bench with more defensive players though. 

If he wants to be here and there are no other options, do it!  You can always trade him away if it's an object disaster. 

https://twitter.com/bloghawk/status/1524106383993544706?t=1uYHNyis6zNLnDPjtW0QZA&s=19

Edited May 10, 2022 by marco102

[marco102]

No idea why the link didn't post.

[kg01]

There's one answer for us this offseason, folks.

Basically everybody knows, but I shall make my thoughts known shortly.

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, marco102 said:

No idea why the link didn't post.

If we brought him in, I would excitedly cheer the team on despite my concerns.  They would be dynamic on offense. 

[AtLaS]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

No idea why the link didn't post.

No doubt Mitchell will be a better defender without carrying the entire offensive load, same with Trae if we added Mitchell.  The way both teams play now is their teammates IMMEDIATELY look to pass them the ball after a rebound to initiate offense.   It's hard to play perimeter D when you carry the entire offensive load.  It's tiring even when you are in perfect shape.  Very few can do this successfully.

 

It's interesting to think about, adding Mitchell would solve our offensive issues against Miami or any other team playing that defensive style, they couldn't double/triple Trae anymore.  

 

If I had to pick a Jazz player, I like the idea of trading for Mitchell over Gobert.  At least with Mitchell we get to another level offensively and can score big on anyone.  Gobert gives us no improvement on offense, meaning Miami can do the same thing next year against us and we would get the same result.  Defensively he makes us better in the regular season, but the formula against him is going small with someone who can shoot at the 5.  His code has been cracked so many times in the playoffs.  We would finish much better in the regular season as a top 10-15 defensive team, but in the playoffs would be exposed when teams going small.  This is why the Jazz keep losing in the playoffs, Max Kleber and Terrance Mann types going nuts with Gobert guarding them.

[NBASupes]

38 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

No doubt Mitchell will be a better defender without carrying the entire offensive load, same with Trae if we added Mitchell.  The way both teams play now is their teammates IMMEDIATELY look to pass them the ball after a rebound to initiate offense.   It's hard to play perimeter D when you carry the entire offensive load.  It's tiring even when you are in perfect shape.  Very few can do this successfully.

 

It's interesting to think about, adding Mitchell would solve our offensive issues against Miami or any other team playing that defensive style, they couldn't double/triple Trae anymore.  

 

If I had to pick a Jazz player, I like the idea of trading for Mitchell over Gobert.  At least with Mitchell we get to another level offensively and can score big on anyone.  Gobert gives us no improvement on offense, meaning Miami can do the same thing next year against us and we would get the same result.  Defensively he makes us better in the regular season, but the formula against him is going small with someone who can shoot at the 5.  His code has been cracked so many times in the playoffs.  We would finish much better in the regular season as a top 10-15 defensive team, but in the playoffs would be exposed when teams going small.  This is why the Jazz keep losing in the playoffs, Max Kleber and Terrance Mann types going nuts with Gobert guarding them.

I didn't laugh because this was dumb, I laughed because I am trying to figure out how playing with Trae makes Mitchell a better defender. No, simply no! 

[Diesel]

Well, let's see.. Bring in Mitchell.  A 2 guard offense.  Yall are trying to make Nate Quit so that we can bring in...

 

This is like having CP3/Harden/Capela...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yy22v32l 

So.. if this is the move....  With a few first rounders. 

We would have to resign Delon. 

We would have to move Gallo for a SF. (Defensive).  

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Well, let's see.. Bring in Mitchell.  A 2 guard offense.  Yall are trying to make Nate Quit so that we can bring in...

 

This is like having CP3/Harden/Capela...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yy22v32l 

So.. if this is the move....  With a few first rounders. 

We would have to resign Delon. 

We would have to move Gallo for a SF. (Defensive).  

LMAO!

[AtLaS]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I didn't laugh because this was dumb, I laughed because I am trying to figure out how playing with Trae makes Mitchell a better defender. No, simply no! 

We will definitely have major defensive issues with them in the lineup.  I think it makes Mitchell a better defender from an effort perspective, since he won't be carrying the full load on offense he will have more energy on defense.  Not that his defensive skillset will improve by playing with Trae.

 

I guess my overall point was that I'll take Mitchell over Gobert if we are trading for one of the Jazz players.  I dont think we get much worse defensively with Mitchell, since I consider Bogi on Trae level, he is one of the worst defenders in the NBA.  He is so bad it's laughable.  Heurter isn't much better.  At least with Mitchell we get worlds better offensively and no more doubles on Trae.

Gobert will improve our regular season defensive rating, but someone like Horford at the 5 would destroy him in the playoffs.  Teams will go small and pull him away from the basket.  He just can't guard the perimeter at all.  And he isn't good enough offensively to make them pay for it on the other end.  If we re-played the Miami series but added Gobert, we still lose in 5.  He just wouldn't help us against a team like that at all. They triple team Trae and our offense is locked up.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

We will definitely have major defensive issues with them in the lineup.  I think it makes Mitchell a better defender from an effort perspective, since he won't be carrying the full load on offense he will have more energy on defense.  Not that his defensive skillset will improve by playing with Trae.

 

I guess my overall point was that I'll take Mitchell over Gobert if we are trading for one of the Jazz players.  I dont think we get much worse defensively with Mitchell, since I consider Bogi on Trae level, he is one of the worst defenders in the NBA.  He is so bad it's laughable.  Heurter isn't much better.  At least with Mitchell we get worlds better offensively and no more doubles on Trae.

Gobert will improve our regular season defensive rating, but someone like Horford at the 5 would destroy him in the playoffs.  Teams will go small and pull him away from the basket.  He just can't guard the perimeter at all.  And he isn't good enough offensively to make them pay for it on the other end.  If we re-played the Miami series but added Gobert, we still lose in 5.  He just wouldn't help us against a team like that at all. They triple team Trae and our offense is locked up.

Mitchell is significantly worse on defense especially at the 2 than Bogi and Trae is significantly worse on defense than Conley. It would be a horrific defensive pairing. Offensively though, maybe too much isolation but it would be special like a better Dame and cj but way worse defensively. 

If you asked me, would you take Mitchell replacing Kevin or Gobert replacing Capela, I am choosing Mitchell. That said, a trade for Mitchell would cost significantly more than Huerter. In that case, if it costs us Clint or JC, give me Gobert 100 out of 100 times.

[RandomFan]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

There's one answer for us this offseason, folks.

Basically everybody knows, but I shall make my thoughts known shortly.

Been saying for a long time Ben is a good match for what we need around Trae. Now if we can just land him. 

Even Trae said he wanted to play with him.  

[kg01]

51 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Well, let's see.. Bring in Mitchell.  A 2 guard offense.  Yall are trying to make Nate Quit so that we can bring in...

 

This is like having CP3/Harden/Capela...

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yy22v32l 

So.. if this is the move....  With a few first rounders. 

We would have to resign Delon. 

We would have to move Gallo for a SF. (Defensive).  

Dantoni's where you go to guarantee exciting failure.  EZPassLane, homes.

[Diesel]

Ok... Here's the way it's going to work...  Massive Overhaul...

Bogi, Hunter, Shariffe, 1st (2025) to Utah for Mitchell. 

Gallo, Kev, 1st (2023) to Brooklyn for Ben Simmons. 

Draft SG or Project C.  (Sharpe or Mark Williams) 

Resign Delon.  

Pick up some other players with MLE..

• Trae/Delon
• Mitchell/Sharpe
• Simmons/CBrown
• JC/JJ
• CC/OO 

If you have Simmons and CC... and can sub in Delon.. are we defensively bad?

If you have Mitchell and Trae.. do you miss any offense with Simmons on the floor?

I joked about the Houston Rockets circa 2017.. but really this looks similar to the Golden State Warriors... in skillset. 

If it went down this way, I can make myself like it.  But Simmons would have to be stable. 

 

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Ok... Here's the way it's going to work...  Massive Overhaul...

Bogi, Hunter, Shariffe, 1st (2025) to Utah for Mitchell. 

Gallo, Kev, 1st (2023) to Brooklyn for Ben Simmons. 

Draft SG or Project C.  (Sharpe or Mark Williams) 

Resign Delon.  

Pick up some other players with MLE..

• Trae/Delon
• Mitchell/Sharpe
• Simmons/CBrown
• JC/JJ
• CC/OO 

If you have Simmons and CC... and can sub in Delon.. are we defensively bad?

If you have Mitchell and Trae.. do you miss any offense with Simmons on the floor?

I joked about the Houston Rockets circa 2017.. but really this looks similar to the Golden State Warriors... in skillset. 

If it went down this way, I can make myself like it.  But Simmons would have to be stable. 

 

Zero chance Utah does that deal

[georgia]

Btw Mitchell and Gobert- I think I’d rather see what it would take to get Jordan Clarkson in here as a 6th man and use our other “assets “ else where…..

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Zero chance Utah does that deal

Hunter looked really good last time out.  Cooper is no slouch.  and they will have cornered the market on Bogdanovich's.

If Utah is listening to trades, this would be one that they will listen to.

[Sothron]

From my source:

Mitchell's interest in Hawks is real but so is Miami's interest in him and vice versa. Trae is pushing for Mitchell or Simmons. 

 

[JTB]

I’m not going to lie I thought Mitchell was taller than 6’1…thought he was like 6’3.

his weight size must have thrown me off as he’s listed at 215 which for a 6’1 guy that’s pretty damn good. 

I didn’t know his arm length was longer than Bogi and Huerter. Huerter has a decent wingspan…for Mitchell to have a longer wingspan I’m impressed.

 

With all that said I’m not a fan of a small back court unless there’s some major overhaul in the front court to put some physical, tall, long good to elite defenders around them and if we are being honest Schlenk probably wouldn’t be able to pull that off.

 

in any Mitchell trade I am sure Ainge would want Hunter or Collins in a deal. So if Schlenk were interested he’d have a lot figure out.

[JTB]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

From my source:

Mitchell's interest in Hawks is real but so is Miami's interest in him and vice versa. Trae is pushing for Mitchell or Simmons. 

 

Cool. I am not shocked about the Mitchell interest at all. During a game some seasons ago I recall the announcer stating that Trae and Mitchell were close. 

[JTB]

4 hours ago, marco102 said:

No idea why the link didn't post.

I’m glad you posted this because just like Bradley Beal …I remember Mitchell having a good defensive reputation at one point but again just like Beal it faded away these past few seasons.

maybe I’m tripping but I could have sworn Mitchell was looked at as a good defender his first few years in Utah.

 

I’m sure someone will let me know if that is right or not.