The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[Final_quest]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

None of that addresses the disconnect between fan expectations and this move though.  I wasn't arguing whether it made sense or not - just why many fans would naturally recoil from this kind of move.  What you lay out (assuming we are not doing more deals) makes perfect sense but my point was that fans are still going to be scratching their heads because hearing Ressler say he'll pay the tax makes them think that he'll pay the tax right now.

In terms of being better or worse, you have to take a big picture perspective to justify this deal.  When you look at it as the roster before we dealt Kevin and the roster after him (with Murray already in the fold), then we are inarguably worse.

OK, yes from that perspective you're right.  I would say those types of fans are not following the moves on a daily basis or the tax situation.  Those types of fans will just think, "Cool we got another allstar to play with Trae Young."  

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

If you look at it as a in the tax vs out of the tax issue like some twitter boneheads like to do then you'll never get anywhere

[REHawksFan]

From The Athletic regarding Holiday and Harkless:

https://theathletic.com/3395521/2022/07/01/kevin-huerter-trade-grades-hawks-kings/

This is a good trade for both teams. I’ve long contended that the NBA undervalues Holiday. He’s historically an above-average 3-point shooter. Holiday is 36.5 percent from deep for his career, and he made 38.2 percent from distance on nearly six attempts per game over the last three seasons. He’s also a very capable defender, both on the ball and off it. The Hawks lost a lot of defensive intensity following their appearance in the conference finals [SOLO], and that happened despite zero changes to the rotation[SOLO]. They just lost that defensive feeling. [ahem...SOLO]

Holiday and Harkless should help fix that. Both are guys who can switch multiple positions on the perimeter and help with the ability to recover to shooters on the perimeter. They can close out with length and athleticism to both shooters. Harkless can even defend some fours if needed. Harkless is not the shooter Holiday is. He’s had two seasons with great accuracy on low volumes, so it’s been in there at some point. However, his 32.0 percent 3-point accuracy for his career isn’t a sign of made shots to come.

Still, this is Schlenk fleshing out the wing defenders with some adults on the floor. Holiday and Harkless won’t blow you away, but they’re solid and reliable for what you need them to do. It’s not a knock on Huerter to move him and acquire those players. The Hawks just had a tough decision to make and freeing up some money while also adding to your depth is good. The first-round pick is available starting in 2024, but it’s lottery protected. They just have to wait for the Kings to be playoff-bound (it’s been 16 seasons) or as close to it as possible for this to convey in the next few years. Otherwise, they get two second-round picks.

[Kobie Drew]

6 minutes ago, ABH said:

Defense yes.. offense no

I get that. But John Collins already was decreasing in touches this year. And now that Dejounte is here he will be third option so even less touches. I know that’s not his fault but we can’t really rely on nate to fix anything so here we are. I love John and would love to keep him, but if Ben comes in and averages 12/13 points a game, does it really hurt our offense that much?

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

OK, yes from that perspective you're right.  I would say those types of fans are not following the moves on a daily basis or the tax situation.  Those types of fans will just think, "Cool we got another allstar to play with Trae Young."  

I definitely view this move as all about the dollars and long-term cap management and not about the competitiveness of the team.  (Or I'd say this was the best deal for the team that accomplished the goal of getting under the tax line.)  Not sure there was a burning need to get under the tax line right away but the FRP was probably the bird in the hand that led to the trigger being pulled.

If the Hawks have another major move left to make, I'll revisit it in that context but I'm no longer expecting it.

[NBASupes]

Just off the RIP, SA and Utah are tanking. So that means one play in game spot is open (Portland, SAC, or LA). One playoff spot is open.

[Kobie Drew]

Here’s something I can see happening, I don’t have any sources but I’m just saying this seems possible. Also to be very clear I am not saying this is what I am rooting for. Tax experts help me out. 

Hawks send John Collins to Brooklyn
Hawks send bogi to Miami

Brooklyn sends KD to Miami 
Brooklyn sends Ben to hawks

Miami sends bam to Brooklyn 
Miami sends Tyler hero to hawks

All that plus hawks send the pick we got today to Miami. 
Plus a few other picks are involved from basically all teams

[theheroatl]

This is overpaying:

 

 

[JeffS17]

Just now, Kobie Drew said:

Here’s something I can see happening, I don’t have any sources but I’m just saying this seems possible. Also to be very clear I am not saying this is what I am rooting for. Tax experts help me out. 

Hawks send John Collins to Brooklyn
Hawks send bogi to Miami

Brooklyn sends KD to Miami 
Brooklyn sends Ben to hawks

Miami sends bam to Brooklyn 
Miami sends Tyler hero to hawks

All that plus hawks send the pick we got today to Miami. 
Plus a few other picks are involved from basically all teams

Hawks pick would be going to Brooklyn in this scenario.  I could see this, but I really hope Schlenk/LF/Nate have a solid plan with Simmons if we go that route.

[Plainview1981]

2 minutes ago, Kobie Drew said:

I get that. But John Collins already was decreasing in touches this year. And now that Dejounte is here he will be third option so even less touches. I know that’s not his fault but we can’t really rely on nate to fix anything so here we are. I love John and would love to keep him, but if Ben comes in and averages 12/13 points a game, does it really hurt our offense that much?

But it is about shooting.

Trae/Murray/Hunter/Simmons/Cap

That's a line up that is going to struggle to shoot. Hunter is good, but at 10PPG or so, he will not scare anybody.

I assume management hopes that Murray can become closer to 35-37%. Which he probably can, but we can go by what we have seen this far.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

From The Athletic regarding Holiday and Harkless:

https://theathletic.com/3395521/2022/07/01/kevin-huerter-trade-grades-hawks-kings/

Harkless is not the shooter Holiday is.

Just to contextualize this statement, Holiday shoots less than 40% from the field for his career (he shot less than 35% in Sacramento last year although that was somewhat SSS and an outlier so I won't hold that against him too hard) so he isn't really much of a shooter either.  If he can hit the 3 at a decent rate, hopefully he can enjoy the type of efficiency that he did in the 2020 and 2021 seasons and not what he has had over his overall career.  I expect he will be shooting little other than wide open jumpers.  Harkless on the other hand is much better than Holiday at getting to the rim and that is where he does his "damage" (probably overstating it) on offense.

[Plainview1981]

3 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

This is overpaying:

 

 

My god....

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

This is overpaying:

 

 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, Plainview1981 said:

But it is about shooting.

Trae/Murray/Hunter/Simmons/Cap

That's a line up that is going to struggle to shoot.

That lineup is unplayable on offense, imo.  Simmons can't coexist with Cap.  If Simmons comes, Cap must go.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

This is overpaying:

 

 

I do think this is a long-play trade.  The real value are the 2027 and 2029 assets.  Unlike Atlanta (where Murray is an UFA in 2 years), they control Gobert, Antman and Towns through at least 2026.

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

This is Minnesota...

Fixed

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

This is overpaying:

 

 

Four 1st rounders tho... man but Gobert is a top 15 player so he is a game changer

[Mikey]

Remember when @thecampstertold me rudy wouldn’t go for a package like this

told you Danny ainge doesn’t play the game based off your charts 

[marco102]

25 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Considering who our coach is, there is a big possiblity that Justin Holiday is his choice early on.  Fields should mandate that Nate play the more talented kids.

Lol...that will come from the President of Basketball Operations...Travis Schlenk.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Four 1st rounders tho... man but Gobert is a top 15 player so he is a game changer

They control Towns through 2028, Gobert through 2026 and Antman basically through 2028.  This isn't quite as crazy risky as it looks on paper to me.  They have a long time to work through this without a lot of risk of losing any piece of their core.