Will the Hawks ever measure up and become Golden State Warriors East?

[RedDawg#8]

6 hours ago, FL_BRYANT said:

I have  no idea what your talking about. I was just saying Wiggins is a better defender than anyone on the Hawks. I think he did a great job on Tatum.  Great defense isn't completely shutting someone down it's decreasing their output , making timely stops or keeping them from completely taking over the game. I think most games  in the playoffs are usually decided by less than ten pts. I think Wiggins did a great job of that.

My bad, I came in mid conversation. All I saw was Tatum better than anyone on Hawks. I missed the part about Warriors and Wiggins defense. (I was a little buzzed fyi).

I agree defense is about slowing ppl down, not “stopping” them. Wiggins helped to do that. I give Wiggins major credit for adapting to the Warriors culture on defense. I do not think he could come to Atlanta  and perform at that same level defensively. Likewise I think if Hunter was on the Warriors, he would be universally lauded as Draymond’s heir-apparent. A fully bought in team can make stars out of their defenders.
Results go to Wiggins. His team was bought in and he did his part.

I believe Delon has better instincts than Wiggins, and Dre can be trusted on an island against the world’s best. 
None of it matters though because our team is still overall poor on defense.

We have no defensive culture and it shows when cats like Solo, TLC, Kris Dunn, Delon, Dre, Dedmon, etc…. all look average when they play for us because their teammates constantly hang them out to dry.
Wiggins would be no different here.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 hours ago, StonedDogs said:

What superstar you know cares about an exhibition game snub? Don't say Dame.

Not sure why you would exclude Dame, but just recently here is:

Gobert crying like a baby

 

 

Booker calling out the TNT crew 

 

 

....and DeRozan

DeMar DeRozan tweets NSFW reaction to being snubbed for All-Star spot again

 

.....and I don't think it's playing in the actual game that matters, it's the recognition that it holds for the player resumes.

[StonedDogs]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Not sure why you would exclude Dame, but just recently here is:

Gobert crying like a baby

 

 

Booker calling out the TNT crew 

 

 

....and DeRozan

DeMar DeRozan tweets NSFW reaction to being snubbed for All-Star spot again

 

.....and I don't think it's playing in the actual game that matters, it's the recognition that it holds for the player resumes.

Superstars? I'm talking superstars. Trae is considered a superstar, correct?

Derozen on his third team. Trae his first few years has played for Trae. He stat pads 

[JayBirdHawk]

22 minutes ago, StonedDogs said:

Superstars? I'm talking superstars. Trae is considered a superstar, correct?

Derozen on his third team. Trae his first few years has played for Trae. He stat pads 

Currently, DeMar DeRozan is 12-to-1 to win the NBA MVP. Those are the fifth-best odds ahead of superstars like Steph Curry, Devin Booker and Luka Doncic. DeRozan is clearly in the MVP picture as we approach the final weeks of the season. DeRozan is averaging 28.1 points per game, which is a career high.Mar 5, 2022

[StonedDogs]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Currently, DeMar DeRozan is 12-to-1 to win the NBA MVP. Those are the fifth-best odds ahead of superstars like Steph Curry, Devin Booker and Luka Doncic. DeRozan is clearly in the MVP picture as we approach the final weeks of the season. DeRozan is averaging 28.1 points per game, which is a career high.Mar 5, 2022

No I understand brother this year, but you were talking about a Derozen that played with the Spurs. Those numbers were not Bulls numbers. He made the all star this year by this season numbers. Devin Booker wasn't even the leader of his team. And Gobert wasn't even the leader of his team. Trae is your leader and he cried about being snubbed in what his second year? Third? I'm a huge Hawks fan, I just never liked the Trae young pick and all my concerns are popping up. As a fan I have no choice but to deal with him. He's Josh Smith all over again. 

[JayBirdHawk]

31 minutes ago, StonedDogs said:

No I understand brother this year, but you were talking about a Derozen that played with the Spurs. Those numbers were not Bulls numbers. He made the all star this year by this season numbers. Devin Booker wasn't even the leader of his team. And Gobert wasn't even the leader of his team. Trae is your leader and he cried about being snubbed in what his second year? Third? I'm a huge Hawks fan, I just never liked the Trae young pick and all my concerns are popping up. As a fan I have no choice but to deal with him. He's Josh Smith all over again. 

I can keep going...

Embiid spoke about his Allstar snub in 2017

KAT spoke about his Allstar snub in 2020.

It happens, get over it.

[JayBirdHawk]

34 minutes ago, StonedDogs said:

I just never liked the Trae young pick

And there it is!

[FL_BRYANT]

13 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

My bad, I came in mid conversation. All I saw was Tatum better than anyone on Hawks. I missed the part about Warriors and Wiggins defense. (I was a little buzzed fyi).

I agree defense is about slowing ppl down, not “stopping” them. Wiggins helped to do that. I give Wiggins major credit for adapting to the Warriors culture on defense. I do not think he could come to Atlanta  and perform at that same level defensively. Likewise I think if Hunter was on the Warriors, he would be universally lauded as Draymond’s heir-apparent. A fully bought in team can make stars out of their defenders.
Results go to Wiggins. His team was bought in and he did his part.

I believe Delon has better instincts than Wiggins, and Dre can be trusted on an island against the world’s best. 
None of it matters though because our team is still overall poor on defense.

We have no defensive culture and it shows when cats like Solo, TLC, Kris Dunn, Delon, Dre, Dedmon, etc…. all look average when they play for us because their teammates constantly hang them out to dry.
Wiggins would be no different here.

Happy Father's Day! 

[StonedDogs]

6 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

And there it is!

Haha you can keep going? So can I bud. KAT barely played leading up to the game. Taking someone spot who has earned it by playing? Sorry, not how it works. And Embiid was coming off his 2nd foot injury. He was basically a rookie my man on a god awful team. Trae is the star. Every player you've named were not superstars. They would never start on an Olympic team. I can be a fan and be honest building around Trae won't lead you to a chip. Iverson didn't get one, Nash didnt get one. And CP3 hasn't. You will continue to be in denial and say things like but but but, he stepped on a refs foot. But but but Miami sent the whole team at him. But but but he doesn't have players around him. You cannot find me a championship team who has built the way the Hawks are preparing to build now around a shoot first point guard. 

[RandomFan]

1 hour ago, StonedDogs said:

You cannot find me a championship team who has built the way the Hawks are preparing to build now around a shoot first point guard. 

I've seen dumber statements, but not many. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by RandomFan

[bleachkit]

Warriors have done an excellent job in terms of personnel. 6 finals appearances in 8 years. 

[sturt]

3 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Warriors have done an excellent job in terms of personnel. 6 finals appearances in 8 years. 

Struck me sometime this weekend when I was on the road how a steep temporary downturn in a team's health can be a blessing in disguise for their long term interests... and that while #16 isn't the same thing as GSW or SAS got out of their steep temporary downturns--reflective that our "steep" wasn't as steep as losing Steph or Klay or the Admiral, nor was our "temporary" as damning in length as theirs--it holds some potential for being a key to nudge up our roster a tad, and perhaps get us over the hump from .621 into the territory where 55-60 win seasons become common... we'll only know in hindsight, of course, but it's plausible given Schlenk's history of finding good players in that range.

[NBASupes]

The Warriors have figured out how to have a very high floor with a very high ceiling. Green paired with Curry is the ultimate floor and roof raising tandem. Klay is key as he forces you to take some coverage off of Curry and he can defend 3 positions. Even as Klay has regressed, Wiggins adds value as a 4th option who can score 17ppg. 

The Hawks have a very high ceiling but they have an very low floor. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

On 6/18/2022 at 10:35 AM, Packfill said:

Neither the eye test nor any available defensive metric evidences that Hunter is an excellent defender, particularly if the sample size is last season. He has the right size and length to become an excellent switchable defender but that has not yet become reality.  I wish he were an excellent defender as that would really allow the Hawks to elevate their team success. 

He is an excellent man defender via the eye test and data wise if you use the right data. He just below average as a team defender which kills his metrics. 

Whereas someone like JC is a good team defender, he's an average man defender. 

[NBASupes]

On 6/19/2022 at 5:46 AM, Diesel said:

Oh.. you haven't been watching.   Wiggins (since he became a Warrior) became a better defender.   They brought the defensive player out of him.   I think he's also better overall because he doesn't have all that pressure on him. 

 

Being in a system that fits you and a role that fits you makes a lot of guys better. Wiggins really never brought into team defense till he joined the Warriors. He always showed potential to be an excellent man defender. He showed that in Minnesota. 

It's a lot eaiser to play team defense with Draymond Green on the court. Him and Al Horford make everyone better defensively, but Green covers even more ground. 

[Spud2nique]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

And there it is!

Burd cracks the case again! 🫡 

[theheroatl]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He is an excellent man defender via the eye test and data wise if you use the right data. He just below average as a team defender which kills his metrics. 

Whereas someone like JC is a good team defender, he's an average man defender. 

A top tier defender like Draymond (that can also stay healthy) paired with Trae (who stays relatively healthy) can go a long way towards a championship. Gobert seems to be the best option available to be our Draymond so here's to hoping Ainge is slipping in his old age.

Edited June 20, 2022 by theheroatl

[AHF]

On 6/17/2022 at 9:03 PM, Diesel said:

Iverson didn't get assists like Trae. 

 

This is where I'm contractually obligated to point out that Iverson wasn't nearly as good a scorer as Trae either.  

Trae 29.6 ppg with 20.8 FGA/gm (age 21) and 28.4 ppg with 20.3 FGA/gm (age 23)

Iverson 31.1 ppg with 25.5 FGA/gm (age 25) and 28.4 ppg with 24.8 FGA/gm (age 24)

Their TS% numbers aren't remotely close.  Trae >> Iverson.

[StonedDogs]

8 hours ago, RandomFan said:

I've seen dumber statements, but not many. 

SG...Monta Ellis was the point. David Lee got replaced and Draymond is the hybrid point. Curry himself will tell you he's not a point guard. You could've said the Lakers. I was giving the perfect chance but you fell into the obvious casual basketball trap. Magic is the one but we know Trae is not Magic. 

 

[AHF]

Lmao at Curry not being the shoot first point guard for Golden State.  He is the poster child for successful shoot first point guards.  If he played like Magic, he wouldn’t be shoot first. Magic was not a shoot first point guard (not was Stockton, nor was Paul, etc.). Shoot first points are guys like Curry, AI, Starbury, Tiny Archilbald, IT, etc.