Mo Harkless to OKC

[macdaddy]

OH!  I'm definitely not expecting AJ to be in the 9 man rotation.  I'll be super shocked if that happens but i'd like it too because it will mean he's really good. 

Trae / Murray

Murray/ Bogi

Hunter / Justin

JC / JJ

Capela / OO

With any wing injuries it will increase Justin's time.   Trae/Murray out we will see Aaron.  

AJ, Frank, Tyrese will be guys that folks will be screaming about lack of playing time.   I hope i'm wrong and we at least see what they can bring.  

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

That said, I've never known Landry to lie or to fail to achieve a stated goal, and he did say the goal is for BogBog (... distinguished from BojBog, and less confusing than Bogi since BojBog also gets that regularly...) is to be 100% by the regular season.

You seem to think that what GM's say are set in stone - it's a fluid situation and circumstances change.

Bogi has not been a participant in training camp so far, which means he is already behind the 8-ball for the season opener let alone 100%

 

 

When he gets to 5-on-5 in training camp/practice he will be closer to returning.

When and if he plays in any of the preseason games he will be closer to returning.

When he plays in NBA games without a minutes restriction - that is when he will be 100%

[macdaddy]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

You seem to think that what GM's say are set in stone - it's a fluid situation and circumstances change.

Bogi has not been a participant in training camp so far, which means he is already behind the 8-ball for the season opener let alone 100%

 

 

When he gets to 5-on-5 in training camp/practice he will be closer to returning.

When and if he plays in any of the preseason games he will be closer to returning.

When he plays in NBA games without a minutes restriction - that is when he will be 100%

Hopefully we've past the 'running in straight lines', 'shooting', 'balancing on one foot' part of rehab.  But yet to make it to 3 on 3. 

[sturt]

15 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

You seem to think that what GM's say are set in stone - it's a fluid situation and circumstances change.

Bogi has not been a participant in training camp so far, which means he is already behind the 8-ball for the season opener let alone 100%

Couldn't find a good tongue-in-cheek GIF... ...but yeah, I've never known Landry to lie... but the other part to that is that I really just don't know Landry yet... and yeah, I've never known Landry to miss a goal, but the other part to that is that I don't have any grasp of what goals he's set at all... so truly, " I've never known Landry to lie or to fail to achieve a stated goal."

 

We'll see.

 

I will say this much... you probably don't put it out there that you think player X should be 100% for opening night if you think there"s really no chance of that and rather he"s likely to be out the first month.

[sturt]

23 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm definitely not expecting AJ to be in the 9 man rotation.  I'll be super shocked if that happens but i'd like it too because it will mean he's really good. 

Right.... I'm not expecting it, either, rather I'm just answering the question "what's the alternative to Justin."

AJ is it.

And b/c I'm not expecting it, either, and b/c it seems silly to ignore Justin's fairly dramatic regression in the last 3 years... the logical response to that, seems to me, is to look beyond our roster for other plausible alternatives.

People seem to have locked in their brains Justin's reputation, and that's a different thing than more recent years' performance.

[Spud2nique]

39 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm not really even defending him because i think our bench is a big issue.  But if Justin is 3rd Unit in your book who's the second?  that's my question.

AJ. My boy! He’s gonna rip the rims down.

[JayBirdHawk]

33 minutes ago, sturt said:

Couldn't find a good tongue-in-cheek GIF... ...but yeah, I've never known Landry to lie... but the other part to that is that I really just don't know Landry yet... and yeah, I've never known Landry to miss a goal, but the other part to that is that I don't have any grasp of what goals he's set at all... so truly, " I've never known Landry to lie or to fail to achieve a stated goal."

 

We'll see.

 

I will say this much... you probably don't put it out there that you think player X should be 100% for opening night if you think there"s really no chance of that and rather he"s likely to be out the first month.

This is a Fields quote regarding Mo:

With Moe, he’s a guy that plays hard and gives us depth at the four. It’s helpful in that regard. He’s a vet. He’s got great character and we like what he brings to the locker room. He’s not the most outgoing guy, but enough so that we feel there’s an impact there, too.”

Yet...here we are: Mo in no mo.

 

Here's what he said about JHoli:

Justin Holiday gives us more length around the perimeter and an ability to shoot from the perimeter. That opens things up for Trae and Dejounte with an ability to space the floor. That gives room for Clint and John as they’re working down in the interior. 

 

GMs say a lot of things.  I try to take things at face value in that moment.  Things move and change fast in the NBA landscape. I go with flow.

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Since we know Bogi will be brought along slowly, and the rest of the wing rotation are 2 rookies in Tyrese and AJ (who has been limited so far in training camp) - it's my opinion that JHoli will be the backup SF to start the season.  I see him in the 20-24 minute range.

If training camp and the Open Practice is any indication so far - he is currently the backup SF.  During Nate's in arena interview he said that he wanted the starters to play together and the 1st bench unit to play together and didn't mix-n-match them since he wanted to simulate what game day would be like. He also said we have 14 solid guys but 'we can't play 14 guys.' 

 

I've actually been assuming Bogi will be ready.  He is a vet and doesn't need training camp.  If he isn't ready than a combo of guys will fill that gap, I think it would be Aaron Holiday but maybe Tyrese.  Also, more minutes at the 2 for Justin if Bogi is down.  

If everyone is healthy, I see Bogi as a 6th man and he would play with either Trae or DM as part of a 3 man guard rotation.  Possibly see Aaron Holiday getting some minutes, but not many.  

Justin Holiday is Hunter's back up.  Hunter gets 32 minutes, Justin gets 16 minutes.  Point blank.  There is a scenario where Hunter plays some 4 and that would give Holiday more minutes at the 3.  Saying all of this to say, the backup SF should be 15-18 minutes, not 20-24 minutes.  Hunter played 43 minutes in our last game against Miami, could easily be playing 33 minutes a night. 

The only mystery in the rotation to me is backup PF minutes.  I guess I won't believe it's Jalen until I see him on the court subbing in for Collins.   
 

[sturt]

48 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Yet...here we are: Mo in no mo.

I'm failing to see what you seem to be trying to make me see.... he made no assertion as to their intentions with the player, and certainly said nothing about the player's likely health, of course.

It's not evidence for or against. It's true, he didn't know what he didn't know (that they would be trading Mo), but it's irrelevant to the assessment of whether one should believe Fields' vision for BogBog's availability at the start of the season.

Or if it's relevant... what am I missing?

[thecampster]

Waiting for games is dumb!  Prove I'm wrong!

 

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I've actually been assuming Bogi will be ready.  He is a vet and doesn't need training camp.  If he isn't ready than a combo of guys will fill that gap, I think it would be Aaron Holiday but maybe Tyrese.  Also, more minutes at the 2 for Justin if Bogi is down.  

If everyone is healthy, I see Bogi as a 6th man and he would play with either Trae or DM as part of a 3 man guard rotation.  Possibly see Aaron Holiday getting some minutes, but not many.  

At least in my interactions here, we don't talk about ADay... errrr.... Aaron... enough.

It is true that he's an option for some SG minutes, and speaking for myself, that's tended to get overlooked... though, in my defense, aside from Trae and DJM, Aaron's the only established guaranteed contract PG on the roster, so I tend to think that's where he'll get most his minutes by default.

But if BogBog's health is a bigger issue than Fields makes it out to be, then yeah, it's certainly plausible that Aaron gets some minutes beside Trae or DJM.

That said, Aaron's going to get minutes by default. The math demands it, unless you're determined to play Trae and DJM 36 minutes a night with only 12 of those together. The more you want to play them together--and I've always understood that was/is the plan--the harder it becomes to have at least one on the floor for the entire game. Aaron's going to be the beneficiary of that math, which probably means 6-10 minutes routinely.

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

At least in my interactions here, we don't talk about ADay... errrr.... Aaron... enough.

It is true that he's an option for some SG minutes, and speaking for myself, that's tended to get overlooked... though, in my defense, aside from Trae and DJM, Aaron's the only established guaranteed contract PG on the roster, so I tend to think that's where he'll get most his minutes by default.

But if BogBog's health is a bigger issue than Fields makes it out to be, then yeah, it's certainly plausible that Aaron gets some minutes beside Trae or DJM.

That said, Aaron's going to get minutes by default. The math demands it, unless you're determined to play Trae and DJM 36 minutes a night with only 12 of those together. The more you want to play them together--and I've always understood that was/is the plan--the harder it becomes to have at least one on the floor for the entire game. Aaron's going to be the beneficiary of that math, which probably means 6-10 minutes routinely.

We're going to win a lot of games going away. Some minutes will get divided strictly based on 20 point leads. There are teams in this league that won't be able to keep up with our scoring, pure and simple.  There will be at least 10 gimme games on the schedule and minutes will go out.

[Gray Mule]

Nate is under pressure, as always.  How to divide up the floor time.  Who gets to play with who and for how long.  We here on the Squawk usually agree that we really don't like the way Nate divvies up the playing time.  This will not change, regardless of what he does or how he does it.  That's just the way we are.

[macdaddy]

With all the chatter last year about Sharife not getting PT it appears that we've easily replaced Rife with a superior player in AHoliday.  i sure hope so anyway

[MaceCase]

Even when ‘fully’ healthy, Bogi is probably still going to be on a pitch count and have multiple ‘rest and maintenance’ games missed.  From what I’ve seen that knee isn’t getting any better, just manageable, so guys we want to push out the rotation will fundamentally be part of the rotation regardless due to depth.

I also don’t believe depth or upgrades will be addressed until we’ve seen this team for a good 25-30 games.  The C word was thrown around last season just to watch the team barely claw its way into the playoffs.  That’s a lot of eggs on faces from ownership down.

So JHo stays.  Not as a glowing endorsement of JHo but just a general understanding of NBA psychology knowing that he will be given every opportunity to play.  That’s not an early season concern, he’s a vet, he’s expected to come in and do what he’s known to do. Age/decline are mitigated because I have to imagine that the expected script is similar to any other script.  Coming off a healthy summer, full camp, and into a franchise with clear stated goals, JHo should be expected to hold up and perform his role admirably for ~35 games.  It is at that point that the youngins should be picking up on NBA nuances and claiming his minutes.

So as is, I don’t think the concern should be about starting the season with the best possible roster on paper.  The concern should be how well the primary players play together and then Schields can take a more critical look at what exactly fills in the margins. 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I've actually been assuming Bogi will be ready.  He is a vet and doesn't need training camp.

This is what Bogi is doing in practice!

 

This is what Bogi said on media day:

Bogdanovic says he feels good and he's confident. He's "close to the last phase" of his recovery. Says that the hope is that he is ready for the start of the season.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, MaceCase said:

Even when ‘fully’ healthy, Bogi is probably still going to be on a pitch count and have multiple ‘rest and maintenance’ games missed.  From what I’ve seen that knee isn’t getting any better, just manageable, so guys we want to push out the rotation will fundamentally be part of the rotation regardless due to depth.

I also don’t believe depth or upgrades will be addressed until we’ve seen this team for a good 25-30 games.  The C word was thrown around last season just to watch the team barely claw its way into the playoffs.  That’s a lot of eggs on faces from ownership down.

So JHo stays.  Not as a glowing endorsement of JHo but just a general understanding of NBA psychology knowing that he will be given every opportunity to play.  That’s not an early season concern, he’s a vet, he’s expected to come in and do what he’s known to do. Age/decline are mitigated because I have to imagine that the expected script is similar to any other script.  Coming off a healthy summer, full camp, and into a franchise with clear stated goals, JHo should be expected to hold up and perform his role admirably for ~35 games.  It is at that point that the youngins should be picking up on NBA nuances and claiming his minutes.

So as is, I don’t think the concern should be about starting the season with the best possible roster on paper.  The concern should be how well the primary players play together and then Schields can take a more critical look at what exactly fills in the margins. 

I’m just givin the like right away for such a long post, it’s been what since 97 since you’ve written this much. 

[MaceCase]

52 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I’m just givin the like right away for such a long post, it’s been what since 97 since you’ve written this much. 

Naw, just figured I’d take care of all my training camp posting in one shot so enjoy and be thankful cuz…..I coulda logged in a couple weeks back and….discussed a few boids’ taking their talons to some lil lion cubbies’ faces

[Spud2nique]

23 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Naw, just figured I’d take care of all my training camp posting in one shot so enjoy and be thankful cuz…..I coulda logged in a couple weeks back and….discussed a few boids’ taking their talons to some lil lion cubbies’ faces

Wanna hear something even worse. I’m in Vegas on Sunday and some nerdy dork engineer lookin white dude wit a mustache drunk out his mind thinks I bet on the eagles and said YAAAAAA WE DID IT.. gleeked on my face. 
 

Ya, you guys got us. You’re better than I thought so far.

Control your fan base doh.

[kg01]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This is what Bogi is doing in practice!

 

This is what Bogi said on media day:

Bogdanovic says he feels good and he's confident. He's "close to the last phase" of his recovery. Says that the hope is that he is ready for the start of the season.

Better than what Lonzo is doing.  Yikes.  Lonzo's career might be in jeopardy.  Guy can't climb stairs rn.  He's been out almost a year, it seems.

And @Spud2nique favorite nba guy, Amin, ranked CHI over the Hawks because "Lonzo might come back, blah, blah..."  CHI was trash after Lonzo went down.