Good Thing Everybody Else is Mediocre ...

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It was reported that, in negotiating the terms of his suspension, Udoka is allowed to leave for another team and BOS can't ask for compensation via trade.  Scalabrine confirmed that on the radio.

Honestly sounds like malpractice by BOS.

Guess it was his price of publicly accepting the year long suspension.

[Diesel]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Where do you get this stuff, Dies? 

First, we don't fully know what Udoka did.  Per reports, he harassed an employee and that's why he's being punished.  He didn't stand up to anybody, again, if you believe reports.

Actually, the first reports were that he had a consensual sexual affair with a subordinate.  Not Harrassment. 

Also, it was reported that he was asked to stop and he did not. 

 

If anything, this is a mutual parting at this point because he's not happy with the Selltics' apparent over-action.

I don't think it's exactly a mutal parting.   He's still under contract and it's his contract that allows the celtics to suspend him for a year.   You ever wonder why they didn't just fire him?  Like AHF said, I would guess that his suspension comes at a lesser salary.   It probably also allows Boston to negotiate with suitors for Udoka.

 

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

The Nets did indeed appear to cave to pressure but, looking at it practically, how could they have handled the ongoing Kyrie stuff AND explain hiring a coach who was serving a suspension.  Separate issues forced together due to circumstance, not some wide-ranging conspiracies.

Not so fast my friend.   The Nets are not motivated by bad press.  Hell if that's the case, they would have made several trades this summer.    I don't think anybody there is in favor of Jacque Vaughn longterm unless he can somehow right the ship. 

Had some other team been in the spot to hire him, it likely would've happened.

 

And I really wish people would stop using the Paul trade as some evidence of league collusion or whatever.  That was an isolated occurrence which was fully explained at the time.

What was the explanation...  Lemme help you...

Quote

“I'm going to correct your language: What 'cancelation'? The GM [Dell Demps] was not authorized to make that trade,” Stern told Brian Berger on the Sports Business Radio Road Show. “And acting on behalf of owners, we decided not to make it. I was an owner rep. There was nothing to 'void.' It just never got made."

Again...

Quote

How about Chris Paul, whose trade to the Lakers, Stern vetoed in 2011 during his time as de facto owner of the New Orleans franchise (then the Hornets, now the Pelicans)? “I didn’t do a great job of explaining it at the time. There was a trade that [New Orleans GM] Dell Demps wanted us to approve and I said heck no, but he had told [Rockets GM] Daryl Morey and [then Lakers GM] Mitch Kupchak he had authority to do it and he didn’t. I said no. We just settled a lockout and you want me to approve a basketball trade?”
The reaction was swift but Stern held firm. “[Demps] had agreed to [trade Paul to the Lakers for] Kevin Martin and Luis Scola or something, and I said we can do better than that.... And the next trade was [to the Clippers for] Eric Gordon and Al-Farouq Aminu and what we thought was a really great draft pick, the 10th pick, which turned out to be Austin Rivers. At least those three and someone else [center Chris Kaman]. But Dell Demps is a lousy general manager and none of those players are currently with the team anymore, and he may lose Anthony Davis.”

Stern continues: “I did it because I was protecting the then Hornets.... To this day everyone always asks me, ‘Well why did you keep Chris Paul from going to the Lakers?’ I didn’t keep him. I didn’t approve the trade. No team sells or trades a future Hall of Famer without the owner signing off, and I was the owner’s rep. But I wasn’t going to hand up Dell Demps.” 

 

No one talks about our organization vetoing the Joe Johnson trade, which was literally the same thing.  LITERALLY, the exact same thing as the Hornets was owned by the league at the time.

The problem my friend is this... Stern couldn't operate as both Owner and Commissioner... it's a conflict of interest.   Moreover, he tries to diminish the trade...

Los Angeles Lakers: PG Chris Paul (from Hornets)

New Orleans Hornets: F Lamar Odom (from Lakers), SG Kevin Martin (from Rockets), PF Luis Scola (from Rockets), PG Goran Dragic (from Rockets)

Houston Rockets: PF Pau Gasol (from Lakers)

Notice he didn't mention Odom who was coming off a 15/9/3 season with 53% FG%  38% 3pt shooting.

Notice he didn't mention Dragic who started his breakout that season.  He stopped the trade because CP3 with Kobe would have been too much.  Conflict of interest and at the time, he couldn't explain it so that it made sense. 

 

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I get the league is biased but these tinfoil hat conspiracies are ridiculous.  Do people not understand there's more money in the reveal than there is in the cover up?  Do people not understand the sheer number of folks that need to be "in" on this stuff?  Come on, folx. 

 

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, Diesel said:

High Risk or High Cost?  I don't see the risk...  Maybe a team go in willing to negotiate with Ainge and Company.  However, I would guess that Negotiations are going to be hard because it was Ainge who was offended.   Personally, I would guess that he don't want to see Udoka prosper.   Like I said, Udoka is being punished.   

 

 

You don't see the risk of hiring a guy who (allegedly) had an affair with a high ranking exec's wife, had an affair with a subordinate employee, and ignored both his former employer's direction to stop pursuing her and her requests that he stop pursuing her?  To spell it out, he is at high risk of getting suspended by the league if he repeats that behavior and puts your team directly in harms way if someone sues for discrimination or harassment in the future.  

Quote

Ainge probably asks for 4 1st round picks from the team that wants Udoka.

You think he is running both the Jazz and the Celtics?  Not sure how Ainge figures in (nor how his current team's management would factor in given what kg just shared about Boston not being able to block him from taking another job or get anything as part of that transaction).

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Guess it was his price of publicly accepting the year long suspension.

That very well could be the case because he certainly hasn't publicly defended himself.

However... and it's a big but ... all the media folks that are represented by CAA have done his dirty work in that regard.  Stephen A, Woj, etc. 

[Atlantaholic]

We've been practically as mid as mid can be. 14th in SRS, 14th in Net rating with a w-l expectancy of 11-11. Hopefully we can improve as the season goes along. 

[Gray Mule]

UDOKA  - - The stud muffin of the NBA!

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

You don't see the risk of hiring a guy who (allegedly) had an affair with a high ranking exec's wife, had an affair with a subordinate employee, and ignored both his former employer's direction to stop pursuing her and her requests that he stop pursuing her?  To spell it out, he is at high risk of getting suspended by the league if he repeats that behavior and puts your team directly in harms way if someone sues for discrimination or harassment in the future.  

It's presumptuous to assume that he's a serial affair haver with subordinates who are exec wives?  A lot of times, affairs are based on proximity.  However, this was not rape.   This was not somebody being forced into a relationship.   The first report was that it was a consensual affair.   It has been played out in the media, by the punishment and on social media as if he either raped the woman or forced her into a relationship. 

How many times does bosses have relationships with subordinates that were not forced but relationships based on mutual interests?  When I was in school, one of my professors had married one of his graduate students.   They stayed married for 40+ years.  Do you think that every University he went to, they were concerned if he would have a relationship with one of his students?  I don't think the thought ever came up because he was never criminalized the way that Udoka is being criminalized. 

 

 

[kg01]

@Diesel first, I'm not rehashing the LAL stuff.  I stand by what I said, I understand and remember the circumstances, and you won't change my mind.  I didn't share that to debate it, so you're entitled to your opinion on it.

On Udoka, we're all just speculating but as I shared, the report is that BOS cannot get compensation for him.  He is free to leave whenever he gets hired. 

Folks suggested he was allowed to speak with BKN even before the suspension was announced.  They wanted him but caved to pressure which, based on the kyrie stuff, was at an unprecedented level on their organization.  Remember Marks is likely on his last legs there and Tsai can't have too fine a lens placed on him as it is.  Jmho

It made sense, at the time, they'd opt for the milder choice and sticking with Vaughn. 

[AHF]

Just now, Diesel said:

It's presumptuous to assume that he's a cereal affair haver with subordinates who are exec wives?  A lot of times, affairs are based on proximity.  However, this was not rape.   This was not somebody being forced into a relationship.   The first report was that it was a consensual affair.   It has been played out in the media, by the punishment and on social media as if he either raped the woman or forced her into a relationship. 

How many times does bosses have relationships with subordinates that were not forced but relationships based on mutual interests?  When I was in school, one of my professors had married one of his graduate students.   They stayed married for 40+ years.  Do you think that every University he went to, they were concerned if he would have a relationship with one of his students?  I don't think the thought ever came up because he was never criminalized the way that Udoka is being criminalized. 

 

 

You have two different issues with the Celtics if the rumors are true.

(1)  A relationship with a non-employee wife of an executive.  This is a big breach of trust between high ranking members of team management but not an issue of consent in and off itself.  But as a team you do have to worry if he will play the field among the wives of your execs which can only lead to bad things.

(2)  A relationship with a subordinate employee that comes in two stages (a) Stage One - Before the team and the woman told him to back off; (b) Stage Two - After he was told to back off..

The biggest problem for Udoka is not consent for the initial relationship, i.e., Stage One.  It is continuing to pursue the relationship after the team manager told him to back off and the woman told him to back off.  When the team tells you she is off limits there is no consent that makes that right.  But when the woman tells you to back off that is a withdrawal of consent. Continuing to pursue the relationship anyway after both of these things is a big risk for his next employer.  Very bad judgment on his part. 

[kg01]

I dont understand why people are so galled by his suspension.  Do companies no longer do sexual harassment training?  The boss/employee dynamic makes 'consent' more murky than you think.

He's lucky he hasn't been fired outright.  Likely BOS, through the suspension, is trying to avoid an inevitable legal challenge from him by saying they're going through due process or whatever.

This is pretty basic.  Folks using this situation as a springboard for their he-man/woman-hatin'. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

But here's what woke me out of my sleep.

Last year, I was not concerned about Boston.   They won the EC and I said, they won by default. 

This year, they are thrashing any and everybody.   They are not 100%.  And they still look like the best team in the league.   

I want my Hawks to be in the finals.   However, 

Boston & Milwaukee (once Middleton gets back) are going to be very hard to supplant. 

 

 

A tale of 2 shot charts:

Boston vs Miami:

 

Hawks vs Miami

 

Other than the fact that we went 0 - 16 3FG from the top of the arc, to the right corner 3, what else stands out about this chart?

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

A tale of 2 shot charts:

Boston vs Miami:

 

Hawks vs Miami

 

Other than the fact that we went 0 - 16 3FG from the top of the arc, to the right corner 3, what else stands out about this chart?

One thing that stood out for me when we played BOS was what their coach said as we cut their lead.  He said stte, "Don't worry, they're taking the shots we want them to take."

That hit me like a ton o' bricks - no, I'm not referring to our jumpers.

Rookie coach basically had us and iRobot bent over a barrel and we didn't realize it until the game was outta hand.

[Spud2nique]

28 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Do companies no longer do sexual harassment training? 

I haven’t received mine yet, they said HR would send it but they are laggin. I always wonder if this means I get to be a around the office and act like Borat. 

[Spud2nique]

47 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

UDOKA  - - The stud muffin of the NBA!

[Spud2nique]

3 hours ago, kg01 said:

Nowhere near time to panic as some folks are doing.

It’s my right, I’ll panic if I want to. My body, my choice! 

[Spud2nique]

The NBA has turned into a mediocre regular season finish is fine just stay healthy and get into the playoffs like it’s an the NCAA tourney.

I mean, a few team are gonna get a ton of wins but there’s a lot of parity in the league these days.

We gotten tighten our ish is all. 
 

Anyone know the status of JC yet? Ankle? Hope he’s ok. 

[macdaddy]

50 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

A tale of 2 shot charts:

Boston vs Miami:

 

Hawks vs Miami

 

Other than the fact that we went 0 - 16 3FG from the top of the arc, to the right corner 3, what else stands out about this chart?

Lot of empty circles in and around the lane.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

A tale of 2 shot charts:

Boston vs Miami:

 

Hawks vs Miami

 

Other than the fact that we went 0 - 16 3FG from the top of the arc, to the right corner 3, what else stands out about this chart?

11 shots in the highlighted area (midrange) plus the tight circle in the paint at the rim.

 

22 shots in the highlighted area plus not a tight circle at the rim

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, kg01 said:

I dont understand why people are so galled by his suspension.  Do companies no longer do sexual harassment training?  The boss/employee dynamic makes 'consent' more murky than you think.

He's lucky he hasn't been fired outright.  Likely BOS, through the suspension, is trying to avoid an inevitable legal challenge from him by saying they're going through due process or whatever.

This is pretty basic.  Folks using this situation as a springboard for their he-man/woman-hatin'. 

But if he was fired outright, they would still have to pay him.. right?

otherwise.....

What's the suspension about?

 

[JeffS17]

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

But if he was fired outright, they would still have to pay him.. right?

Not if they fired him with cause / breach of contract.  There are usually vague judgement clauses and other gray legal areas worked in that aren't normally used because it leads to legal battles.  Speaking generally here because I have never seen a head coaching employment agreement.

I don't want Udoka to run our team.  We don't need spoiled goods, not that desperate.  I don't care if he's a good coach or not -- you can't trust his judgement and that can have a big impact on team culture.