2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[JustSomeGuy]

On 9/15/2023 at 11:44 AM, macdaddy said:

I could be wrong but haven't all his injuries been related to the knee that he hurt 3 years ago and had surgery on last year.  I'm hoping he's a new man. 

Also not believing for a second we thought he could be our starting SF.  Trae/DJ/Bogi at 30 minutes a game together would be a big defensive issue.  

Bogi isn’t that much worse of a defender than Dre as you make it sound. He isn’t a great athlete but is a good team defender, and more disruptive. He is also a better shooter, shot creator, and is more consistent so the fit wouldn’t be that bad.

[AHF]

7 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

They want OO and Clint to add more shooting range. 

Clint to add more shooting range?  I bet Clint hasn't made more than 5 - 10 shots outside of 15 feet in his entire career.  Okongwu is the guy who I believe is going to be the one who can extend his range to the 3 point line. We've seen flashes of this already.

 

Let's run that to ground.  Shots made from 16+ feet per season:

2014-15:  0

2015-16:  0

2016-17:  1

2017-18:  0

2018-19:  0

2019-20:  0

2020-21:  1

2021-22:  0

2022-23:  1

 

Grand Total:  3

 

The idea of Capela adding range is ridiculous.  It is the equivalent of Shaq or Dwight Howard shooting 3's in the offseason.  Dwight actually looks like a perimeter sniper compared to CC.

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

Let's run that to ground.  Shots made from 16+ feet per season:

2014-15:  0

2015-16:  0

2016-17:  1

2017-18:  0

2018-19:  0

2019-20:  0

2020-21:  1

2021-22:  0

2022-23:  1

 

Grand Total:  3

 

The idea of Capela adding range is ridiculous.  It is the equivalent of Shaq or Dwight Howard shooting 3's in the offseason.  Dwight actually looks like a perimeter sniper compared to CC.

It really is ridiculous.  It reminds me of how leaders in corporate America re-org teams to include specific skillsets existing team members do not have to justify getting rid of those employees.  Capela will never add range.  I'll be happy if he can make more free throws.  It sounds like to me the big shift is Quin has a top down structure he wants, and he's going to be influencing roster changes to get there.  Whereas before Quin, we were trying to take the pieces we have and make the most of them, because there was not as much of a vision of what a successful roster looks like with buy-in for each role.

[AHF]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

And while I know the reaction here will be overwhelmingly negative to this train of thought, I still think we are low key preparing for a Trae Young-less Hawks team in the future, and we are positioning ourselves to have continued success when that day comes.  Other than having actual schemes, a modern offense, and a great development staff, this new coaching regime is bringing in a new culture that is no longer do everything to appease Trae and build around Trae.  It's possible Trae adapts well and starts playing team ball, but I honestly won't be surprised if he's on the block by next summer.  The power shift in the org has quickly shifted from Trae Young to Quin Snyder.  Really interested to see how things play out over the next year or so.

First, I think you have to be a moron to take a coaching job (when you have options like Snyder did) with a team who has a star player signed long-term who you don't want to be there for the long-term.  So the idea that Snyder would come here and immediately start thinking about how the team will work post-Trae doesn't make sense to me.

Second, I think the idea of preparing for when your star leaves you is beyond stupid.  He is  under contract for 4 more years and has shown more interest in staying in Atlanta than perhaps any high profile Hawk since Josh Smith.  (Who for all his faults legit loved playing for the Hawks.)  When it becomes clear that he is gone then adjust to that but until then make the most of  your chances right now.

Third, my personal take is that Snyder is bringing in a new structure that he thinks will give us the best chance to win with Trae.  That may mean that Trae doesn't have the ball in his hands as much as he has done historically but I don't see that as Snyder being indifferent to Trae or trying to run him off.  

 

(Side Note:  Given that LP actively worked to sabotage Trae's career by preventing him from participating in the All-Star game and with the national team,  I can't put him in the category of people who wanted to do everything to appease Trae.  LP prevented Trae from getting coaching from some of the greats and from learning from veteran stars while simultaneously putting his relationship with Trae on the line if word ever got out that he was submarining his own player.  Given Nate's old school approach, I likewise don't think he was all about appeasing Trae.)

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

First, I think you have to be a moron to take a coaching job (when you have options like Snyder did) with a team who has a star player signed long-term who you don't want to be there for the long-term.  So the idea that Snyder would come here and immediately start thinking about how the team will work post-Trae doesn't make sense to me.

Second, I think the idea of preparing for when your star leaves you is beyond stupid.  He is  under contract for 4 more years and has shown more interest in staying in Atlanta than perhaps any high profile Hawk since Josh Smith.  (Who for all his faults legit loved playing for the Hawks.)  When it becomes clear that he is gone then adjust to that but until then make the most of  your chances right now.

Third, my personal take is that Snyder is bringing in a new structure that he thinks will give us the best chance to win with Trae.  That may mean that Trae doesn't have the ball in his hands as much as he has done historically but I don't see that as Snyder being indifferent to Trae or trying to run him off.  

 

(Side Note:  Given that LP actively worked to sabotage Trae's career by preventing him from participating in the All-Star game and with the national team,  I can't put him in the category of people who wanted to do everything to appease Trae.  LP prevented Trae from getting coaching from some of the greats and from learning from veteran stars while simultaneously putting his relationship with Trae on the line if word ever got out that he was submarining his own player.  Given Nate's old school approach, I likewise don't think he was all about appeasing Trae.)

I know people here dismiss anything negative that comes out about Trae, but there was a decent amount of smoke last year and the front office made it explicitly clear that Quin was evaluating the entire team, and the new front office has a green light to make any moves, including moving Trae.  I don't think that was a forewarning that Trae was going to be traded, but it was a clear message that Trae no longer has the keys to the team, and those keys are now in Quin's pocket.

Trae is no longer receiving special treatment and pampering, like he has grown accustomed to because he knew the front office and ownership rely on him heavily for ticket sales, etc.  He's a Klutch guy, this fact is not lost on him.  So when I say "prepare for a Trae-less team", what that really means is that he's not longer being being treated as irreplaceable.  The loss of Trae Young 2 years ago would have crippled this franchise for years.  Going forward, I don't think that will be the case, and that's really what I mean by a soft preparation.  It's unclear how Trae is going to respond to the power shift and locker room dynamics, and being held accountable on both ends.  Quin is a relationship guy, so it might be fine, but Trae also might respond poorly if he feels like this is no longer "his team", inwhich case we will be well-positioned to move on.  

And it's been widely reported how much Quin loves Dejounte Murray, and DJ just signed a very team friendly deal.  His position overlaps heavily with Trae... my hope is that Trae/DJ tandem improves by a lot this year, because I enjoy cheering for both of them, but if it doesn't, the question quickly becomes what can you do with the the additional ~$20M in cap space (Trae v DJ salary) and the additional asset haul from trading Trae?  Particularly when Trae wants that 35% of the cap deal he will be eligible for down the road?  Trae's impact on offense won't be matched of course, but if we have a solid system in place (D Mitchell is not the offensive player Trae is, yet they still had the #1 offense in the league), you have to start questioning if an undersized PG that is a huge liability on defense is worth $60M+ a year, or do you spend that money on an elite wing/big? 

This is a thought exercise that extends well beyond this year, but it's some food for thought.

[AHF]

You are clearly reading more into things than I am.  It is has been reported that Trae is sold on Snyder.  Trae's Dad says Quin is the best thing to ever happen to his son.  It has been reported that Snyder is super high on Trae.  DM and Trae are both clearly high on each other.

I don't view this at all as a situation where we are readying to dump Trae.  I think this is a situation where they are all excited to work together.

(I also am very unexcited by the idea of a DM led team.  I'm not sure he is a legit Robin even though I think he is an excellent player and am super excited by how much he has shown he wants to be part of this team.)  Definitely plenty of food for thought, but I am focused on the  here and now because there is so much happening this year (most of all seeing what Snyder and his staff bring).

[shakes]

9 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

 

They want Trae to give max effort in his mins on both ends

No starting star scoring PG in the league is going to give "max" effort on both ends of the floor.  Trae needs to become a smart defender and a guy that defends his man and passing lanes better.  But "max" effort on defense?  That's more like fan speak or old school college coach speak.  Trae needs to be a solid, timely defender, and less of a liability on D.

 

 

If maximizing his effort on defense ends  up meaning he no longer stays back in the defensive end to complain to the ref and instead busts his ass to get back on every single play then I would consider that massive progress and be very happy with it.

[Phunkabilly]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I know people here dismiss anything negative that comes out about Trae, but there was a decent amount of smoke last year and the front office made it explicitly clear that Quin was evaluating the entire team, and the new front office has a green light to make any moves, including moving Trae.  I don't think that was a forewarning that Trae was going to be traded, but it was a clear message that Trae no longer has the keys to the team, and those keys are now in Quin's pocket.

Trae is no longer receiving special treatment and pampering, like he has grown accustomed to because he knew the front office and ownership rely on him heavily for ticket sales, etc.  He's a Klutch guy, this fact is not lost on him.  So when I say "prepare for a Trae-less team", what that really means is that he's not longer being being treated as irreplaceable.  The loss of Trae Young 2 years ago would have crippled this franchise for years.  Going forward, I don't think that will be the case, and that's really what I mean by a soft preparation.  It's unclear how Trae is going to respond to the power shift and locker room dynamics, and being held accountable on both ends.  Quin is a relationship guy, so it might be fine, but Trae also might respond poorly if he feels like this is no longer "his team", inwhich case we will be well-positioned to move on.  

And it's been widely reported how much Quin loves Dejounte Murray, and DJ just signed a very team friendly deal.  His position overlaps heavily with Trae... my hope is that Trae/DJ tandem improves by a lot this year, because I enjoy cheering for both of them, but if it doesn't, the question quickly becomes what can you do with the the additional ~$20M in cap space (Trae v DJ salary) and the additional asset haul from trading Trae?  Particularly when Trae wants that 35% of the cap deal he will be eligible for down the road?  Trae's impact on offense won't be matched of course, but if we have a solid system in place (D Mitchell is not the offensive player Trae is, yet they still had the #1 offense in the league), you have to start questioning if an undersized PG that is a huge liability on defense is worth $60M+ a year, or do you spend that money on an elite wing/big? 

This is a thought exercise that extends well beyond this year, but it's some food for thought.

I know the perception nowadays is that just about every basketball superstar is a diva and/or egocentric, and I do think Trae at least has some of that in him (although I feel it's a bit overstated), but I also believe winning is what motivates him, not the desire to be put on a pedestal.  Personally, I've been very impressed with how receptive he's been to Quin coming in and running the ship.  Trae is smart enough to realize that listening to Quin is likely the quickest path to accomplishing his main objective:  winning.  Now if the team buys in to Quin and we stink it up for the next couple of seasons, then I could potentially see Trae becoming frustrated and your scenario playing out, but I think it's much more likely we WILL have success.  I'm very happy to see Supes' report that players are buying in... I don't know if I've ever been more excited for a season to start even with a relatively quiet offseason.

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, Phunkabilly said:

I don't know if I've ever been more excited for a season to start even with a relatively quiet offseason.

We share that sentiment -- I was really excited for the season after our ECF run as well, but I still had that dark voice in the back of my head questioning if Nate was the guy.  Much more optimistic for this upcming season.

[JayBirdHawk]

35 minutes ago, Phunkabilly said:

I don't know if I've ever been more excited for a season to start even with a relatively quiet offseason.

I'm excited just to have basketball back. We are depending on our young players taking a huge step forward for success. 

I want wins!!!

[theheroatl]

I'm not excited. I think Quin is a great coach and needs time but how did we fix our defense? Our offense is fine, we score points.. we just get hammered on the 3 line and at the basket.

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense?dir=A&sort=DEF_RATING

For a team with 2 good center options we are 2nd to last in opponents points in paint

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/defense?dir=A&sort=OPP_PTS_PAINT

Edited September 26, 2023 by theheroatl

[Sothron]

Our FO has plans on a post Trae future if he is ever moved. Every NBA team has contingency plans for situations like that. Quin and Trae are high on each other and both believe it will work great together.]

In case it doesn't, yes, they have plans to move on. DJM would be our point guard if not traded himself for another rebuild. 

I don't see those things happening. I also don't see Capela in one offseason coming back and being able to shoot, at all, from outside the paint. I'd kiss him on the mouth just to get him to 70% FT shooting for a season. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

I'd kiss him on the mouth just to get him to 70% FT shooting for a season. 

Come on CC...make it happen! 

[HawksNWaffles]

16 minutes ago, Sothron said:

kiss him on the mouth just to get him to 70% FT shooting for a season

[JayBirdHawk]

26 minutes ago, Sothron said:

DJM would be our point guard

DJ would need to be much better this season as a PG than he was last season. The team still struggled mightily in the non-Trae minutes.

[JeffS17]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

DJ would need to be much better this season as a PG than he was last season. The team still struggled mightily in the non-Trae minutes.

We didn't have an offense last season, though.  Nate's offense was give the ball to Trae and let him go make something happen -- it's not a surprise that a standard, good, PG (not generational offensive talent) could not work in that circumstance.  I look forward to watching DJ this season as he seems to be very coachable and probably has better guidance now.

[JayBirdHawk]

11 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

We didn't have an offense last season, though.  Nate's offense was give the ball to Trae and let him go make something happen -- it's not a surprise that a standard, good, PG (not generational offensive talent) could not work in that circumstance.  I look forward to watching DJ this season as he seems to be very coachable and probably has better guidance now.

I don't disagree about Nate not having an offense. I wanted Nate gone 3 games into last season. My point still stands: in the non-Trae minutes I did not get what I needed from DJ based on his skillset.

[hawkman]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't disagree about Nate not having an offense. I wanted Nate gone 3 games into last season. My point still stands: in the non-Trae minutes I did not get what I needed from DJ based on his skillset.

The turnovers in traffic due to his high dribble wasn't encouraging either. I didn't realize how loose DJM's handle was until last season.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, AHF said:

Let's run that to ground.  Shots made from 16+ feet per season:

2014-15:  0

2015-16:  0

2016-17:  1

2017-18:  0

2018-19:  0

2019-20:  0

2020-21:  1

2021-22:  0

2022-23:  1

 

Grand Total:  3

 

The idea of Capela adding range is ridiculous.  It is the equivalent of Shaq or Dwight Howard shooting 3's in the offseason.  Dwight actually looks like a perimeter sniper compared to CC.

 

LOL @ 3.   Damn.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

And while I know the reaction here will be overwhelmingly negative to this train of thought, I still think we are low key preparing for a Trae Young-less Hawks team in the future, and we are positioning ourselves to have continued success when that day comes.  Other than having actual schemes, a modern offense, and a great development staff, this new coaching regime is bringing in a new culture that is no longer do everything to appease Trae and build around Trae.  It's possible Trae adapts well and starts playing team ball, but I honestly won't be surprised if he's on the block by next summer.  The power shift in the org has quickly shifted from Trae Young to Quin Snyder.  Really interested to see how things play out over the next year or so.

 

What evidence do you have of this, when this same coach had Donovan Mitchell, a similar sized guard who was a high volume shooter, as the focal point of his squad?

That same coach also brought in Jordan Clarkson, and pretty much let him free reign offensively off the bench.

News flash:  Quin Snyder doesn't sell tickets.  And despite Quin Snyder being a respected coach, it's not like he's some championship level coach.  His teams have lose 4 of the last 5 times in the 1st round, and he's never gotten to the Conference Finals.  So to make a statement like this team has "transitioned" away from Trae Young after 1/2 a season, is unfounded at best.

LOL . . the Hawks didn't even finish the season over .500 under Quin.  So let's pump the brakes a little bit on Mr. Snyder, until this team proves that they have turned the corner under his leadership.