2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[warcore]

Maybe OO extension has something to do with decision to move Clint. 

Logically it makes more sense to:
Move Clint to let OO get more opportunity if he is extended. 
Keep Clint to make OO earn his contract next summer if he does not extend. 

[Sothron]

This is just me talking here.

If I was OO or his agent I'm telling the Hawks you either trade Clint or you trade me. OO has been the good soldier for years about his playing time. However, it is crazy we took him #6 in the draft, he's played good to great since then and he's still not starting.

 

[marco102]

36 minutes ago, Sothron said:

This is just me talking here.

If I was OO or his agent I'm telling the Hawks you either trade Clint or you trade me. OO has been the good soldier for years about his playing time. However, it is crazy we took him #6 in the draft, he's played good to great since then and he's still not starting.

 

I don't agree with this.  He has to stop fouling so darn much. He's been good for a back up, but it remains to be seen if he's good as a full time starter.  Clint is a proven commodity.  I'd like to keep the center rotation strong unless we are moving Clint for something that's going significantly upgrade our center rotation.   I don't see OO as good enough to be making any kind of demands.  Client is still a top 10ish center. 

That could change with both their performance this year though.  All I guess I'm saying OO needs to show me more if we want to jettison Clint off. 

Edited October 16, 2023 by marco102

[Spud2nique]

42 minutes ago, Sothron said:

This is just me talking here.

If I was OO or his agent I'm telling the Hawks you either trade Clint or you trade me. OO has been the good soldier for years about his playing time. However, it is crazy we took him #6 in the draft, he's played good to great since then and he's still not starting.

 

Wait, is Capela starting for us opening night? It’s time for OO, he brings out more of the run n gun. It’s time. Honestly it was time last season. Definitely now though.

[Peoriabird]

12 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I don't agree with this.  He has to stop fouling so darn much. He's been good for a back up, but it remains to be seen if he's good as a full time starter.  Clint is a proven commodity.  I'd like to keep the center rotation strong unless we are moving Clint for something that's going significantly upgrade our center rotation.   I don't see OO as good enough to be making any kind of demands.  Client is still a top 10ish center. 

That could change with both their performance this year though.  All I guess I'm saying OO needs to show me more if we want to jettison Clint off. 

Agree with this.  OO has played well as a back up in many games but being a starter is much different.  You are playing against the other team's starters.  OO sometimes struggle to rebound against other team's starting centers.

[Gray Mule]

I remember well our cry for a "real" center before Capela arrived.  Unless we trade both for a all star starting center we're fine.  And there's the possibility of 0017 becoming a PF.  No need to rush out and do something.

 

 

[Phunkabilly]

6 hours ago, marco102 said:

I don't agree with this.  He has to stop fouling so darn much. He's been good for a back up, but it remains to be seen if he's good as a full time starter.  Clint is a proven commodity.  I'd like to keep the center rotation strong unless we are moving Clint for something that's going significantly upgrade our center rotation.   I don't see OO as good enough to be making any kind of demands.  Client is still a top 10ish center. 

That could change with both their performance this year though.  All I guess I'm saying OO needs to show me more if we want to jettison Clint off. 

Unfortunately, I couldn't find it now, but I do recall an interview with OO during his rookie or sophomore year where he talked about having an ultra-aggressive mindset when coming in as the backup center... basically, he didn't really care about picking up fouls since it was highly unlikely he would foul out with limited minutes... he just wanted to go out there and go balls to the wall in the minutes he did have in order to help his team win.  I imagine that mindset has continued with him throughout his career up to this point.  I think he's smart enough to realize, however, that if he starts getting starter minutes, he'll have to be a bit more judicious about when and when not to be ultra-aggressive, in order to keep his fouls in check.  In other words, I don't really see the fouling as a big issue, as I think it has just been a product of his aggressive mindset up to this point... I'm sure he can make the necessary adjustments if/when he starts getting starter minutes.

[JTB]

10 hours ago, Sothron said:

This is just me talking here.

If I was OO or his agent I'm telling the Hawks you either trade Clint or you trade me. OO has been the good soldier for years about his playing time. However, it is crazy we took him #6 in the draft, he's played good to great since then and he's still not starting.

 

 

10 hours ago, marco102 said:

I don't agree with this.  He has to stop fouling so darn much. He's been good for a back up, but it remains to be seen if he's good as a full time starter.  Clint is a proven commodity.  I'd like to keep the center rotation strong unless we are moving Clint for something that's going significantly upgrade our center rotation.   I don't see OO as good enough to be making any kind of demands.  Client is still a top 10ish center. 

That could change with both their performance this year though.  All I guess I'm saying OO needs to show me more if we want to jettison Clint off. 

My hope was that there are plans to start both OO and Capela at center this season depending on the matchup and even throughout certain game situations Synder need to consider playing both for defensive purposes whether that’s for a few possessions or a few minutes…I just don’t think Synder should limit his rotation options.

I wouldn’t mind seeing what a Trae, Murray, JJ, OO, Capela lineup could do during certain game situation.

[Diesel]

Too many people are so binary in their thinking.  It's either one or the other and the other must go.  Why can't it be both.   Both shot over 60% last season.   Both are good defensively.   Clint rebounds better.  OO shoots better.  Snyder can use both so that no team can be ready for the rotation. 

 

 

[theheroatl]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Too many people are so binary in their thinking.  It's either one or the other and the other must go.  Why can't it be both.   Both shot over 60% last season.   Both are good defensively.   Clint rebounds better.  OO shoots better.  Snyder can use both so that no team can be ready for the rotation. 

 

 

Clint is valuable now.. You are gambling if you don't sell high here. Basic asset management. 

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by theheroatl

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Clint is valuable now.. You are gambling if you don't sell high here. Basic asset management. 

 

It all depends on what the return is though isn't it.  Is it about improving the team overall for this season or cutting cost and a pick....similar to the Huerter deal where JHol was terrible for us.

I'm not interested in moving CC just to start OO without a tangible plan for how it improves us on the court overall, starters and bench.

I want OO to play well enough consistently to take the spot, not given to him because he was pick #6 and due a payday.

[macdaddy]

Seems to me the first half of the season is an extended tryout for Hunter, Jalen, OO, AJ.   Are they the future or are they expendable. 

[theheroatl]

51 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It all depends on what the return is though isn't it.  Is it about improving the team overall for this season or cutting cost and a pick....similar to the Huerter deal where JHol was terrible for us.

I'm not interested in moving CC just to start OO without a tangible plan for how it improves us on the court overall, starters and bench.

I want OO to play well enough consistently to take the spot, not given to him because he pick #6 and due a payday.

OO has shown the ability to grow already. He is making 3 pt shots. 

He just needs more minutes.  Clint is a known commodity. That being said you have a known commodity that only has downside in the future... once again basic asset management.

Edited October 17, 2023 by theheroatl

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

OO has shown the ability to grow already. He is making 3 pt shots. 

He just needs more minutes.  Clint is a known commodity. That being said you have a known commodity that only has downside in the future... once again basic asset management.

If we are only talking about improving one elements of someone's game Clint has improved his free throw shooting. He is in the 60s now and used to be in the 50s. 

Every asset. Ould have a downside in the future. The question is when that downside is a steep decline.

[RedDawg#8]

We have one of the better center situations in the league. Unless we are bringing in one of the elite big men, a platoon approach is still our safest bet. There is no Center in the NBA that one of CC or OO can’t matchup with. But there are plenty that give either problems. There is a reason teams want to trade for them, let’s not create a hole on our roster for the sake of freeing up minutes. Not to mention if an injury happens and now we are forced to play Bruno starters minutes.

My hope is that Quinn is open to changing the starting lineup based on matchups. Let OO and CC eat vs the guys they do well against. Team first approach, some nights it’s my night some nights it’s yours. 

 

[AHF]

Couple of comments that probably echo what others  have said:

1. Neither CC nor OO look ready to play 40 minutes a game.  We've seen both get abused in certain matchups but also both have generally played well.  Our status quo is a nice position with a 29 year old and 23 year old this year.
2. Don't see a need to dump CC for the sake of dumping him.  Make a move if it is a strong return and/or if it makes the team better but don't pull a JC / KH type of dump trade.
3. I hope that whoever earns the starting role / finishing role gets the minutes and obviously that the coaches take advantages of matchups.  The ideal is that OO seizes the role but that is banking on continued growth for him so no need to try to get ahead of the curve on that unless the return is strong.
4. In terms of asset management, CC is 29 years old and has been pretty healthy and strong during his run in Atlanta.  I don't think this is an asset that is on the verge of a steep decline.  (And if someone thinks that a 29 year old is ready to fall off a cliff I hope they aren't arguing for us to get Siakam because CC is the  younger of the two by a month or two.)  I think we have the luxury of seeing how things play out before making the move unless there is a strong return for him on the table.  
5. We are in what should be the beginning of Trae's prime years and the first year of the best coach we've seen in Atlanta since Bud was here (hoping he proves to be even better).  If we have to err on the side of getting rid of good players too early or keeping them too long, I'd rather err on keeping them too long.  You can't send the message to Trae that you don't care about winning so if you trade CC it has to be for a strong return.

[kg01]

22 hours ago, marco102 said:

I don't agree with this.  He has to stop fouling so darn much. He's been good for a back up, but it remains to be seen if he's good as a full time starter.  Clint is a proven commodity.  I'd like to keep the center rotation strong unless we are moving Clint for something that's going significantly upgrade our center rotation.   I don't see OO as good enough to be making any kind of demands.  Client is still a top 10ish center. 

That could change with both their performance this year though.  All I guess I'm saying OO needs to show me more if we want to jettison Clint off. 

I think the C rotation is good for both OO and Capela, and i hope they realize it.  All that needs to happen thus year is a shifting of role/minutes to OO.

OO effectively demanding a trade would put him in a position to have his weaknesses be exposed.  That's Mitchell robinson-level thinking.  And, frankly, I'm shock-prised to hear @Sothron suggesting it. 

Cmon, soth.  Wild declarations are my department.  Stay in your lane.  Folks gonna think you're coming for my job.  Like I've lost a step.  What I look like to you, Clint Capela!?

... wait, that didn't come out right.

[JeffS17]

OO is probably going to be making ~$20-25M next year.  I don't think it makes sense at all to have $50M tied up in your center rotation, despite the lineup versatility people have mentioned.  The intuitive move is to trade Clint, full stop.  Unless we want to hang on to him until his value declines with age and injuries, like we did with JC.  You have to be willing to part with valuable assets when they are still valuable if you want to field a competitive roster year after year, especially at a position we have a starter-ready player eager for the role.

[JeffS17]

23 hours ago, marco102 said:

I'd like to keep the center rotation strong unless

If we could afford to have ~$45-50M tied up in our rotation for every position, our payroll would be $250M a year.  Clint has to go... love him, and will miss him, but if we're talking about the future, there's only one intuitive move here.

[marco102]

33 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

If we could afford to have ~$45-50M tied up in our rotation for every position, our payroll would be $250M a year.  Clint has to go... love him, and will miss him, but if we're talking about the future, there's only one intuitive move here.

That's the thing, we won't have that tied up in every position and will be fine.  There salary cap is going to go up a lot and having $50 million tied up in the center position won't cripple the Hawks.  If Tony wants to win, he'll have to pay luxury tax at some point.