Premium Member JeffS17 Posted May 3 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 3 5 minutes ago, AHF said: abdicate personnel decisions This is such an egregious wording lol no one is saying Trae is on the phone with other GMs. He's putting pressure on them. Surely you understand that a GM is handicapped to do a good job if the outcomes of the decisions they are making change from "Trade X player for Y player" and end up with Trae Young + Y versus "make no trade and end up with No Y player and no Trae Young". Putting the front office on notice with artificial timelines that might not be the best course for the team is harmful. You can plug your ears and pretend like the front office should delete Trae's number from their phone or you can acknowledge the reality of how business works. With that said, I still blame our front office and ownership because they gave Trae the keys to the city from day 1 and enabled his diva behavior instead of nipping it at the bud. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheNorthCydeRises Posted May 3 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 3 20 hours ago, JeffS17 said: So just to be clear, you guys are all saying Trae will leave unless he gets what he wants, and then when he gets what he wants, it's ownership/front office fault? That's what already happened with the DJ trade. Some real astounding mental gymnastics happening here.... yall both blame the front office for not making Trae happy and also blaming them when they make a move to make Trae happy lmao. No one told this front office to trade 3 first round picks for DJ. No one also told this front office to let Huerter AND Collins go for nothing. It's obvious that we needed another shot creator on the team. Trae and DJ thought they could fit well together. After 1.5 years, it's been spotty at best. But both should also realize that they are NOT the major problem with this team. The following has been our frontcourt main rotation players since the 2021 playoff run: Players in bold currently on the team Small Forward Hunter ( also played PF ) Reddish TLC Solo ( also played PF ) AJ J. Holiday Bey ( also played PF ) Power Forward Gallo Collins JJ Center Capela Okongwu Dieng ( injury rotation ) Bruno ( injury rotation ) Do you or anyone else see a problem with this? And if you do, how does Trae Young get the blame for this? 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSays Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 Trae's Dad's twitter likes. Nothing to see here folks... 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 19 hours ago, JeffS17 said: Heat, Nets, Raptors Two of those teams are in the same boat as us . . . and the other team has FAKE CULTURE that dies whenever their star player is injured. Now some of their fans are even crying that they need a "Trae Young" on their team. Imagine that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted May 3 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, Mikey said: I agree with everything you said but the problem is the landscape of the league today and these stars is you dont give them what they want they will just get up and leave. Especially a player like Booker who has ties to an entire agency and team elsewhere. These stars need to let basketball people do their jobs but culture of the sport now is so cooked it doesn't happen a ton. Need more steph curry's in this world You know what Steph has had since Trae was drafted? Stability with ownership, front office and coaching - that matters. They only have ONE focus - building the team around Steph and a willingness to pay for it, so Steph doesn't have to ask. They already moved on from their 2020 #2 pick - chess moves people. (Make a mistake, fix it, don't compound it by making a worse move). Meanwhile Hawks are playing tiddlywinks. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted May 3 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 3 31 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said: Do you or anyone else see a problem with this? Yes. You forgot Frank Kaminsky! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_dirt Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 26 minutes ago, ShooterSays said: Trae's Dad's twitter likes. Nothing to see here folks... He’s going to fit right in as Trae’s agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted May 3 Moderators Report Share Posted May 3 15 hours ago, Final_quest said: But that’s a huge move. Best player we got via trade since Joe Johnson. It cost a lot, didn’t work out, and left us with limited options to improve after we did it. They did nothing except trade for a young all star caliber guy in his prime. Huh? That was the move. Even if that was a 'huge move' we coupled it with losing Huerter, Gallo, Cam and Lou and not replacing them with anything but draft picks and washed vets. So it was a net loss of production and talent. That one move can't be the only thing you do to improve particularly when you are sending out other guys you relied on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted May 3 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 3 2 hours ago, Mikey said: I agree with everything you said but the problem is the landscape of the league today and these stars is you dont give them what they want they will just get up and leave. Especially a player like Booker who has ties to an entire agency and team elsewhere. These stars need to let basketball people do their jobs but culture of the sport now is so cooked it doesn't happen a ton. As far as Booker is concerned: 23, 25. 21, 19, 34 - number of games won in his first 5 seasons. 51, 64, 45, 49 - number of games in his last 4 after adding CP3 and then KD. You think he didn't 'ask' for some help after those 5 seasons?. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 21 hours ago, JeffS17 said: Do you think Trae is a diva and acting completely entitled after we gave him the keys to the city, marketed him heavily propping up his image and brand, ended the tank early for him, aggressively put together a roster that made the ECF, and gave him DJ Murray at his request? A simple Yes or No please. No. Define "diva" in the sense that you're describing Trae Young. We made it to the EC Finals in Year 3. Did you want the guy to lose for a THIRD consecutive year, so that we can get more draft picks? If so, why did management fire LP? We were well on our way to missing the playoffs that year. Instead, they fire LP, we get Bogi back healthy, and we went on a hell of a run to get the 5th seed in the East. LOL @ ending the tank early for him. Once it was proven that the team could win, it's up to the front office to continue to upgrade the team. But you know what we did? We started to re-sign the current players on "good" contracts Huerter Collins Hunter Capela Bogi All got re-upped. Two of those guys aren't on the team anymore, and was NOT replaced. The front office is hoping that our young draft picks could replace their production, while keeping them on their rookie contracts, thus, not having them to spend any money to build a championship contender . . . which this team has NEVER done. They basically ran it back in 2015 when we got to the ECF and they did it again in 2021. The regime in the 2015 year took ONE shot at an upgrade, by adding Dwight. The regime now has taken ONE shot at an upgrade, by adding DJ. But let's blame the 6 foot PG that has brought much more joy to this franchise than misery. The front office and ownership is basically a joke, and the entire league knows it. But go ahead and put the blame on our current state on the 6 foot PG who played his way to All-NBA level, thus accelerating our timeline as a franchise. It only proves that the front office was never ready to develop a winner. If they trade Trae for a marginal player + draft picks, they'll still mess things up. Then DJ will want out in 2 years. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Popular Post AHF Posted May 3 Author Moderators Popular Post Report Share Posted May 3 42 minutes ago, JeffS17 said: This is such an egregious wording lol no one is saying Trae is on the phone with other GMs. He's putting pressure on them. Surely you understand that a GM is handicapped to do a good job if the outcomes of the decisions they are making change from "Trade X player for Y player" and end up with Trae Young + Y versus "make no trade and end up with No Y player and no Trae Young". Putting the front office on notice with artificial timelines that might not be the best course for the team is harmful. You can plug your ears and pretend like the front office should delete Trae's number from their phone or you can acknowledge the reality of how business works. With that said, I still blame our front office and ownership because they gave Trae the keys to the city from day 1 and enabled his diva behavior instead of nipping it at the bud. I don't even know what this means. Trae was 23 and under contract for 4 years when we traded for DJM. He didn't say he would refuse to play for the Hawks if they didn't trade for DJM. He made it known he wanted to see the front office upgrade the talent like they did when they added Bogi, Gallo and Delon and made it known he liked DJM. The front office decided that the best way to upgrade the team was to go for DJM and that it was worth giving up everything we did to make that happen. That is on the front office not the 23 year old who won't be a free agent until he is 27. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 (edited) 17 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said: I disagree that they have used all of their resources that they had available AT THE START of the season if as Ressler kept saying "the intention was to be a top 6 team and AVOID THE PLAY-IN." These were all the options available at the start of the league year July 1st 2023: 1. The John Collins TPE of $25 million - they used $2 million of it when they traded for Garuba or Tyty 2. The MLE of $12.4 million 3. The Bi-Annual exception of $4.5 million 4. The Huerter TPE of $3.6 million 5. Mo Harkless TPE of $4.6 million 6. The Justin Holiday TPE $6.2 million which they allowed to expire on 02/09/2024 7. The John Collins TPE of $25.3 million - they have since used $2 million of it when they traded for Tyty who they then turned around and traded for another small TPE which expires 07/12/2024. 8. We currently sit $9.1 million under this season's Luxury Tax. And again, this is not me saying to run head first into the Luxury Tax just to do it. But when the INTENTION IS ALWAYS TO AVOID IT NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCE it will always leave me wanting more. (and again just because you start a season over the tax does not mean you end the league year over). I just want us to have a fighting chance to start the season. Not behind the 8-ball from the jump. I live for the day when we start the season with a chance to be considered having a championship worthy team instead of happy to avoid the play-in. Post of the year so far. Sums up our front office in a nutshell. How can you leave all of that on the board to improve the team, then let your players take the hit for their mediocrity on the court? Even the mediocre ass coach who refuses to play lineups with size, is getting a pass too. Acquiring Capela and Bogi in 2021 were good moves that added much needed veteran leadership to the team. And it paid off in a big way. But now that we've gotten our toes close to the Luxury Tax line, the front office is afraid to do anything, if it puts them into the tax? Too easy to let the team drown out in the pond, and blame the star players for not doing enough to save the potential drowning victim. Edited May 3 by TheNorthCydeRises 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 53 minutes ago, macdaddy said: Even if that was a 'huge move' we coupled it with losing Huerter, Gallo, Cam and Lou and not replacing them with anything but draft picks and washed vets. So it was a net loss of production and talent. That one move can't be the only thing you do to improve particularly when you are sending out other guys you relied on. We also underrated the impact of Cam Reddish's on the ball defense during the run to the ECF finals, as well as his spot up shooting. A lot of that was due to him, and a lot was the lack of coaching he got during his time here. However, during that run, he was a terror as an on the ball defender. The best perimeter defender on the team. We have folks thinking the front court is the issue, but the perimeter defense has ALWAYS been the biggest issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 2 hours ago, AHF said: I think trading for Beal is the first step towards a breakup. You lock yourself into a massive overpay / underperforming player and you limit what the team can do. If they used those resources to add more defense and had a better balanced team they would have been more likely to win in the first round. It is up to management to make the decisions to put together the best team not up to Booker who is under team control for 4 more years. In due time one of Booker or KD will be out of there. I dont expect it this summer but summer 2025. Will be a good year to have draft capital IMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said: You know what Steph has had since Trae was drafted? Stability with ownership, front office and coaching - that matters. They only have ONE focus - building the team around Steph and a willingness to pay for it, so Steph doesn't have to ask. They already moved on from their 2020 #2 pick - chess moves people. (Make a mistake, fix it, don't compound it by making a worse move). Meanwhile Hawks are playing tiddlywinks. While I agree that wasn't the case when Steph was there. But when he was becoming a star he had stability entire time but to his credit he is also one of the most selfless stars in any sport. They have their own turmoil going now with ownership trying to play this two timelines thing but he still gonna stick it through 21 minutes ago, KB21 said: We also underrated the impact of Cam Reddish's on the ball defense during the run to the ECF finals, as well as his spot up shooting. A lot of that was due to him, and a lot was the lack of coaching he got during his time here. However, during that run, he was a terror as an on the ball defender. The best perimeter defender on the team. We have folks thinking the front court is the issue, but the perimeter defense has ALWAYS been the biggest issue. Cam missed the entire run but like 2 games in the ECF... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Final_quest Posted May 3 Popular Post Report Share Posted May 3 24 minutes ago, KB21 said: We also underrated the impact of Cam Reddish's on the ball defense during the run to the ECF finals, as well as his spot up shooting. A lot of that was due to him, and a lot was the lack of coaching he got during his time here. However, during that run, he was a terror as an on the ball defender. The best perimeter defender on the team. We have folks thinking the front court is the issue, but the perimeter defense has ALWAYS been the biggest issue. It was very underrated AND completely absent. His main contribution was no longer being a liability on the court because he was out with injury. Statistically Cam was always a net negative in his minutes with the Hawks. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Final_quest Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 1 hour ago, macdaddy said: Even if that was a 'huge move' we coupled it with losing Huerter, Gallo, Cam and Lou and not replacing them with anything but draft picks and washed vets. So it was a net loss of production and talent. That one move can't be the only thing you do to improve particularly when you are sending out other guys you relied on. The first season after the ECF we added Delon Wright, and that team completely failed to live up to the hype. Lou Williams was a vet min who was a shell of his former self. Cam a net negative player. Huerter was replaced by an all star. There was no way we could pay the $200M plus it would have taken to add players or keep a roster together that had 5 rotation players on rookie contracts. Especially given that their follow up season showed the roster was not that good. They had a chance to show the roster was a juggernaut. It wasn’t. You’re honestly advocating for paying to keep those guys together as if we were on par with Golden State? That’s how much payroll it would take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted May 3 Moderators Report Share Posted May 3 8 minutes ago, Final_quest said: The first season after the ECF we added Delon Wright, and that team completely failed to live up to the hype. Lou Williams was a vet min who was a shell of his former self. Cam a net negative player. Huerter was replaced by an all star. There was no way we could pay the $200M plus it would have taken to add players or keep a roster together that had 5 rotation players on rookie contracts. Especially given that their follow up season showed the roster was not that good. They had a chance to show the roster was a juggernaut. It wasn’t. You’re honestly advocating for paying to keep those guys together as if we were on par with Golden State? That’s how much payroll it would take. No i'm advocating for replacing their production with something. Well....only if we want to win. Here's the 11 biggest minutes from the ECF run (this doesn't even include OO who only played 10 a game) 2 years later Kevin, Cam Gallo, Solo, Snell, Lou all gone replaced with DJ, Bey, Griffin, Aaron Holiday. Does that seem like improvement in the roster. The absolute truth is we have we are 77-87 since we added our "second all star" player. We were 84-70 the two years before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JeffS17 Posted May 3 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 3 2 minutes ago, macdaddy said: No i'm advocating for replacing their production with something. Well....only if we want to win. Here's the 11 biggest minutes from the ECF run (this doesn't even include OO who only played 10 a game) 2 years later Kevin, Cam Gallo, Solo, Snell, Lou all gone replaced with DJ, Bey, Griffin, Aaron Holiday. Does that seem like improvement in the roster. The absolute truth is we have we are 77-87 since we added our "second all star" player. We were 84-70 the two years before. You guys are just applying blame as a coping mechanism. There is no way to improve a roster that has 5 guys on rookie deals out of the top 7 minutes played. The only way to improve is development of those players. Adding players makes no sense. Again, this payroll and roster isn't even guaranteed to get out of the play-in: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Popular Post macdaddy Posted May 3 Moderators Popular Post Report Share Posted May 3 5 minutes ago, JeffS17 said: You guys are just applying blame as a coping mechanism. There is no way to improve a roster that has 5 guys on rookie deals out of the top 7 minutes played. The only way to improve is development of those players. Adding players makes no sense. Again, this payroll and roster isn't even guaranteed to get out of the play-in: You're acting like we can't do anything but keep our own players. 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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