Would you guys trade Trae Young for KAT straight up?

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, akay said:

Why? Trae's done better than Embiid in the playoffs already, and Embiids had way more help his whole career lol

Trae is gonna be in the HoF one day and KAT isn't. It's not a tough discussion

Do you really think Trae been better than Embiid in the playoffs?

Why not? He's a superior player who's the MVP.

[kg01]

Most overrated player in the world: JoeLLLL-o Pudding pop. 

Winning matters more than stats and awards and he ain't doing much of it when it matters. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

It's the kind of risk that I would 100% be willing to take.

People left Andrew Wiggins for dead while in Minnesota.  Golden State trades for him, and he becomes their 2nd most important player during their championship run last season.

Wiggins has no pressure in GS, he was 4th in the pecking order behind Steph, Klay and Draymond.....he could just play. KAT will still have some pressure.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Careful.  You gonna get branded as a Trae-pologist or the dreaded 'casual' if you keep that up.

Ooh, casual would be an upgrade from my usual nicknames around here.  

[AHF]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Most overrated player in the world: JoeLLLL-o Pudding pop. 

Winning matters more than stats and awards and he ain't doing much of it when it matters. 

This is one where I disagree with you.  Joel is a really good player.  Didn't deserve the MVP (should have been Jokic) but he is one of the very best.  I'd love to see him playing with Trae.

[kg01]

42 minutes ago, AHF said:

This is one where I disagree with you.  Joel is a really good player.  Didn't deserve the MVP (should have been Jokic) but he is one of the very best.  I'd love to see him playing with Trae.

He's a ref-made phenomenon that could be consistently dominant but prefers to lay down at the free-throw line. 

[AHF]

20 hours ago, kg01 said:

He's a ref-made phenomenon that could be consistently dominant but prefers to lay down at the free-throw line. 

Taking free throws out of the picture he still looks elite to me:

Embiid - 23.1 PPG, 54.8% FG%, 33.0% 3pt%, 10.2 RPG, 4.2 APG, 1.0 SPG, 1.7 BPG

Jokic - 19.6 PPG, 63.2% FG%, 38.3% 3pt%, 11.8 RPG, 9.8 APG, 1.3 SPG, 0.7 BPG

Gobert - 10.3 PPG, 65.9% FG%, 0% 3pt%, 11.6 RPG, 1.2 APG, 0.8 SPG, 1.4 BPG

Sabonis - 15.0 PPG, 61.5% FG%, 37.3% 3pt%, 12.3 RPG, 7.3 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.5 BPG

Giannis - 23.2 PPG, 55.3% FG%, 27.5% 3pt%, 11.8 RPG, 5.7 APG, 0.7 SPG, 0.7 BPG

 

[shakes]

To the OP question:  

[warcore]

Would I jump off a bridge?

.... nah - I'll not do that. 

[benhillboy]

I never cared for Towns and never will but still his league-adjusted shooting as a True Big is eye-popping, even more-so if he bumped his three point shooting up.

There just hasn’t been anything on Trae’s ledger sustainable and elite outside of his FT volume and FT shooting for my tastes.  Many will point to his passing/ shot creation obviously but I just can’t when this is the case…

…and he’s arguably the worst transition defender in the league after a live ball turn.

Newsflash: Turnovers are kinda a hinderance to winning.

I know @AHF will mention his workload as a scorer/ playmaker.  I didn’t make that decision to place so much upon him and wouldn’t even entertain it.  The next two guys behind Trae (Harden and Westbrick) assumed the same role and my loathing of them is well documented here even in their MVP campaigns.  The foolishness of that play style has caught up with both as they have had huge drops in media and fan perception when in fact their IQ’s and experience should be shining more than ever as their physical attributes wane and they chase meaningless rings along with Cupcake.  That play style robs you of so much off ball, shot selection, and team defense responsibility and nuance and you end up with an embarrassment no later than the 2nd round.  At least Harden has great size and had great post defense metrics in Houston.
 

I’m not a career-long supporter of any other player in the Top 50 of most turnovers committed in that span besides Wardell Jr of course (25th) and Draymond (26th).  I’m no fan but I’ll never speak ill of Jokic for painfully obvious reasons (5th).  Obviously Jimmy isn’t in the Top 50.  He couldn’t drag three different rosters and franchises to the playoffs (and well beyond this past season) that had no business being there had he been.

Edited June 28, 2023 by benhillboy

[JTB]

[AHF]

8 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I never cared for Towns and never will but still his league-adjusted shooting as a True Big is eye-popping, even more-so if he bumped his three point shooting up.

There just hasn’t been anything on Trae’s ledger sustainable and elite outside of his FT volume and FT shooting for my tastes.  Many will point to his passing/ shot creation obviously but I just can’t when this is the case…

…and he’s arguably the worst transition defender in the league after a live ball turn.

Newsflash: Turnovers are kinda a hinderance to winning.

I know @AHF will mention his workload as a scorer/ playmaker.  I didn’t make that decision to place so much upon him and wouldn’t even entertain it.  The next two guys behind Trae (Harden and Westbrick) assumed the same role and my loathing of them is well documented here even in their MVP campaigns.  The foolishness of that play style has caught up with both as they have had huge drops in media and fan perception when in fact their IQ’s and experience should be shining more than ever as their physical attributes wane and they chase meaningless rings along with Cupcake.  That play style robs you of so much off ball, shot selection, and team defense responsibility and nuance and you end up with an embarrassment no later than the 2nd round.  At least Harden has great size and had great post defense metrics in Houston.
 

I’m not a career-long supporter of any other player in the Top 50 of most turnovers committed in that span besides Wardell Jr of course (25th) and Draymond (26th).  I’m no fan but I’ll never speak ill of Jokic for painfully obvious reasons (5th).  Obviously Jimmy isn’t in the Top 50.  He couldn’t drag three different rosters and franchises to the playoffs (and well beyond this past season) that had no business being there had he been.

I'm going to surprise you by not even mentioning his workload as a scorer even though it is 100% relevant (but more directly relevant when you compare him to people who don't carry a comparable scoring burden).  What I'm going to point you to is that the Hawks have been elite in putting up very few turnovers as a team so while I would like to see Trae improve here I'm saying it doesn't translate into a big problem for the team.  It has actually been a strength.

We gave up the 3rd fewest turnovers last year and the fewest in the entire league the year before.  That is really good.  

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm going to surprise you by not even mentioning his workload as a scorer even though it is 100% relevant (but more directly relevant when you compare him to people who don't carry a comparable scoring burden).  What I'm going to point you to is that the Hawks have been elite in putting up very few turnovers as a team so while I would like to see Trae improve here I'm saying it doesn't translate into a big problem for the team.  It has actually been a strength.

We gave up the 3rd fewest turnovers last year and the fewest in the entire league the year before.  That is really good.  

Not only that but the rest of the team produces 14 assists to 8 TO compared to Trae with a 10:4 ratio.  Meaning Trae dominating the ball allows for more efficiency and lower turnovers compared to the rest of the roster.  
My own view is that a ton of his turnovers are from fouls that don’t get called.  He would have to be much less aggressive to cut down on TOs and that would hurt us more than help.  

[Peoriabird]

17 hours ago, benhillboy said:

I never cared for Towns and never will but still his league-adjusted shooting as a True Big is eye-popping, even more-so if he bumped his three point shooting up.

There just hasn’t been anything on Trae’s ledger sustainable and elite outside of his FT volume and FT shooting for my tastes.  Many will point to his passing/ shot creation obviously but I just can’t when this is the case…

…and he’s arguably the worst transition defender in the league after a live ball turn.

Newsflash: Turnovers are kinda a hinderance to winning.

I know @AHF will mention his workload as a scorer/ playmaker.  I didn’t make that decision to place so much upon him and wouldn’t even entertain it.  The next two guys behind Trae (Harden and Westbrick) assumed the same role and my loathing of them is well documented here even in their MVP campaigns.  The foolishness of that play style has caught up with both as they have had huge drops in media and fan perception when in fact their IQ’s and experience should be shining more than ever as their physical attributes wane and they chase meaningless rings along with Cupcake.  That play style robs you of so much off ball, shot selection, and team defense responsibility and nuance and you end up with an embarrassment no later than the 2nd round.  At least Harden has great size and had great post defense metrics in Houston.
 

I’m not a career-long supporter of any other player in the Top 50 of most turnovers committed in that span besides Wardell Jr of course (25th) and Draymond (26th).  I’m no fan but I’ll never speak ill of Jokic for painfully obvious reasons (5th).  Obviously Jimmy isn’t in the Top 50.  He couldn’t drag three different rosters and franchises to the playoffs (and well beyond this past season) that had no business being there had he been.

 hey Benhill...I learned the hard way when it came to "knowing when to fold them."   

[bleachkit]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:56 PM, AHF said:

I'm going to surprise you by not even mentioning his workload as a scorer even though it is 100% relevant (but more directly relevant when you compare him to people who don't carry a comparable scoring burden).  What I'm going to point you to is that the Hawks have been elite in putting up very few turnovers as a team so while I would like to see Trae improve here I'm saying it doesn't translate into a big problem for the team.  It has actually been a strength.

We gave up the 3rd fewest turnovers last year and the fewest in the entire league the year before.  That is really good.  

I'm with you there. Our low number of team turnovers suggests turnovers are not a huge issue for us. Trae just has to tighten up a bit late in games. 

[AHF]

9 hours ago, bleachkit said:

I'm with you there. Our low number of team turnovers suggests turnovers are not a huge issue for us. Trae just has to tighten up a bit late in games. 

He can improve on his turnovers but the two things I care vastly more about are (a) his shooting %s and (b) his defense.  The shot went down the drain last year and that has to get reversed.  Priority #1.  

Priority #2 is taking the improved defense he showed under Quin and not just sustaining but building on that.  He will never be an impact defender but every degree of improvement is meaningful.

Tightening up on turnovers would be a nice supplement to those two core areas for me.

[JeffS17]

17 minutes ago, AHF said:

The shot went down the drain last year and that has to get reversed.  Priority #1.  

[TRW]

Trade Trae for KAT.

What, next question, straight blasphemy.

[TRW]

Not to mention KAT's injury history.  He misses too many games. Even though Jokic dominated the playoffs this is still a guard league.