Private agendas still at play in Hawks’ offices

[pachoo5]

Does Pop really GM the Spurs too, fully?

 

If so, maybe I am not against Bud being both GM and coach as I once thought. I naturally assumed that being a coach and being a GM are such time intensive roles that no person could take the part of both and have enough time and energy to fulfill both roles as well as they should be filled.

 

How long has Pop acted as the defacto GM for?

[Guest]

Does Pop really GM the Spurs too, fully?

If so, maybe I am not against Bud being both GM and coach as I once thought. I naturally assumed that being a coach and being a GM are such time intensive roles that no person could take the part of both and have enough time and energy to fulfill both roles as well as they should be filled.

How long has Pop acted as the defacto GM for?

Pop was previously the GM and President of Bball ops from 1994. He took over as coach in 1996.

In 2002, Popovich relinquished his position as general manager to R. C. Buford, who had served as the team's head scout.

RC Buford is the GM.

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/1/28/3916228/spurs-general-manager-excellence-r-c-buford

Edited February 15, 2015 by JayBirdHawk

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Couple of points I would like to make:

 

In the United States, no living person can appear on either the money or postage stamps.

Being an old retired rural mail carrier, I am well aware of this.

I feel that statues should regarded the same way.  You don't get a statue until you are deceased.

Nique was the face of the unsuccessful Atlanta Hawks for many years.  Just as J. Smoove was

the greatness behind "The highlight factory."  Maybe he deserves a statue also.

 

Almost everyone who wants Ferry gone, never to return to Atlanta but fine to go to another team,

feels that we should keep Bud.

 

What if - - - And I'm not saying it happens, but:  Suppose another team hires Ferry.  He's the one

who brought Bud here.  His plan, plus Bud is the reason Korver agreed to stay here.  What is to

prevent Bud, as soon as his contract is up, following his friend to the other team?

 

And then, these players who our GM signed and Bud coached, what's holding them here when

we know the current players want both Bud and Ferry here?

 

I expect some good answers to my questions.  Please!

 

It's a possibility.

 

But then that's all the more reason to give Bud total control.  Make him the coach and the GM, and he'll have no incentive to go anywhere.

[gsuteke]

Maybe Bud wants Ferry.

[Sothron]

I don't understand how anyone that is a Hawks fan would oppose Nique getting a statue. I mean seriously who else in the history of the Atlanta Hawks deserves one if not Nique?

 

As for this with Ferry...you don't fire Ferry over a statue. That is one of the most asinine things I have ever heard. Ferry deserves a cake and a coke every day for what he's done with putting this team together.

 

Disagreeing with Ferry, if it is true, that he stopped a Nique statue does not mean you think the man should be fired over it.

[Threezus]

I am glad Ferry is gone for now. He was a cancer in his own right. With that said, the man made some great decisions and I can see why his stans love him but as for me. I like Wes Wilcox better. If Ferry never comes back and Bud remains GM, I am fine with that.

The only thing im worried about is if we do inded pretty much get rid of ferry for good.  With buds contract coming up at the end of next year.  He could pretty much choose any team he wanted to coach at outside of a handful and get tons of money.  His mindset could be if you ditched the guy who brought him in and is a good friend of his then he might not want to be here either when all is said and done.

If it would mean getting rid of Coach Bud then i dang well don't want Ferry gone.  Plus i still don't see how reading a scouting report written by the Cavs scouting team outloud means you are racist.  If it was something Ferry wrote and was his own facts and opinions then i would have see a much bigger problem.

[Duff_Man]

I think some people are generally upset that nobody outside of Atlanta cared about the Ferry "controversy".

It is just not that big of a deal. He is suspended for reading.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I think some people are generally upset that nobody outside of Atlanta cared about the Ferry "controversy".

It is just not that big of a deal. He is suspended for reading.

 

He got suspended for not being able to ( or winning to ) filter the content that he was reading.   He didn't have to read that verbatim, to get a point across that labeled Deng as being "deceptive".   He trusted his former sources in Cleveland and ran with exactly what they wrote.  Had Deng been Jewish and white, and Ferry been Black, that same kind of backlash would've occurred.  His inability to filter what he was reading, is what got him in trouble.

 

Gearon is absolutely a snake for taping that conversation.   Gearon makes an assumption in the e-mail that he wrote to Levenson, telling him to fire Ferry or make him resign.  Gearon's assumption was that the comments "were not from a private conversation — they were in a business environment on a business matter in front of a dozen or more people," . . . "If Ferry would make such a slur in a semi-public forum, we can only imagine what he has said in smaller groups or to individuals."

 

Whether correct or not, that was his assumption.  And if he shared this assumption, others within the organization may have as well.  The situation isn't nearly as cut and dried as some of you make it out to be.  If this was just a simple mistake in "reading" something inappropriate, I believe that he would've only been fined.

 

But the fact that the exiled one stayed silent and didn't even try to defend himself initially, leads me to believe that he possibly could've made things a lot worse for himself and for the Hawks, if he came out and said something in defense of himself.  His "personality" may have shown through, and been the thing that buried him.

 

If new ownership wants him back, he'll be back.  Until then, we are in good hands with Bud making the key personnel decisions for the franchise.  We'll see what kind of contract offer Millsap will get in the summer, if Bud is still the GM, and if he can convince Millsap to come back.

[RandomFan]

If new ownership wants him back, he'll be back.  Until then, we are in good hands with Bud making the key personnel decisions for the franchise.  We'll see what kind of contract offer Millsap will get in the summer, if Bud is still the GM, and if he can convince Millsap to come back.

 

Speaking about that, I don't know if anyone else saw this posted 2 days ago about Millsap:

 

 

• Paul Millsap said that the support he has received from Hawks fans and the community in Atlanta would not factor into his decision-making when he becomes a free agent this summer, Nick Powell of NJ.com relays. “It’s a good thing, but I’m not one to base my decision off emotions,” Millsap said. “I base my decisions off of everything else. Where our team is at, can I grow with this team, how’s the coach, how’s the community? There’s a lot of things that factor into it besides emotions.” When asked his feelings about potentially playing in New York, Millsap said, “It’s a good place. I consider myself a guy who could fit in anywhere.“

 

Sounds like there wont be much of a (hometeam/good team) discount from Millsap that many of us were hoping for. Of course, this could all just be posturing on his part to make sure the Hawks don't lowball him and he gets a respectable offer. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I love me some Millsap and want him back here; but if he's going to be asking for top dollar, then I might be inclined to throw a max contract at Marc Gasol first just to see if we could lure him here. He's one of the very few bigs that could play in our defensive scheme and still do what we like on offense, and at a true 7 feet tall. I still hope things work out with Millsap though - you don't want to fix what's not broken unless you have no choice.

[Duff_Man]

He got suspended for not being able to ( or winning to ) filter the content that he was reading.   He didn't have to read that verbatim, to get a point across that labeled Deng as being "deceptive".   He trusted his former sources in Cleveland and ran with exactly what they wrote.  Had Deng been Jewish and white, and Ferry been Black, that same kind of backlash would've occurred.  His inability to filter what he was reading, is what got him in trouble.

 

Gearon is absolutely a snake for taping that conversation.   Gearon makes an assumption in the e-mail that he wrote to Levenson, telling him to fire Ferry or make him resign.  Gearon's assumption was that the comments "were not from a private conversation — they were in a business environment on a business matter in front of a dozen or more people," . . . "If Ferry would make such a slur in a semi-public forum, we can only imagine what he has said in smaller groups or to individuals."

 

Whether correct or not, that was his assumption.  And if he shared this assumption, others within the organization may have as well.  The situation isn't nearly as cut and dried as some of you make it out to be.  If this was just a simple mistake in "reading" something inappropriate, I believe that he would've only been fined.

 

But the fact that the exiled one stayed silent and didn't even try to defend himself initially, leads me to believe that he possibly could've made things a lot worse for himself and for the Hawks, if he came out and said something in defense of himself.  His "personality" may have shown through, and been the thing that buried him.

 

If new ownership wants him back, he'll be back.  Until then, we are in good hands with Bud making the key personnel decisions for the franchise.  We'll see what kind of contract offer Millsap will get in the summer, if Bud is still the GM, and if he can convince Millsap to come back.

 

I will say this: They did a fantastic job of just keeping mouths shut. It was the best move they could have made. 

[AHF]

As someone supporting Ferry's return, can I make a request for the sake of intellectual honesty for people arguing against Niques having a statue? Please don't base your argument on false equivalents.

Arguing that I as a random poster on the Squawk don't personally feel entitled to a statue or arguing that perhaps Josh Smith deserves a statue if Niques deserves one amounts to a disingenuous false equivalent. Comparing someone who never played in the NBA or someone who never even made an Allstar game against the greatest player in Atlanta history who has dedicated his entire post-retirement career to the Hawks is not a worthy argument when articulating reasons why Niques doesn't deserve a statue. I can't take the rest of the argument seriously when I see something so deliberately off base.

[Watchman]

As someone supporting Ferry's return, can I make a request for the sake of intellectual honesty for people arguing against Niques having a statue? Please don't base your argument on false equivalents.

Arguing that I as a random poster on the Squawk don't personally feel entitled to a statue or arguing that perhaps Josh Smith deserves a statue if Niques deserves one amounts to a disingenuous false equivalent. Comparing someone who never played in the NBA or someone who never even made an Allstar game against the greatest player in Atlanta history who has dedicated his entire post-retirement career to the Hawks is not a worthy argument when articulating reasons why Niques doesn't deserve a statue. I can't take the rest of the argument seriously when I see something so deliberately off base.

I don't care if he gets a statue or not.  In my opinion, he has done nothing to merit it, but that's just my opinion. Hank Aaron deserves one (as the real home run champion w/o steroid use), but not Nique. I'm just ticked off that it seems Nique puts his own arrogance over the good of the team in siding with Gearon.

[NBASupes]

Speaking about that, I don't know if anyone else saw this posted 2 days ago about Millsap:

 

 

Sounds like there wont be much of a (hometeam/good team) discount from Millsap that many of us were hoping for. Of course, this could all just be posturing on his part to make sure the Hawks don't lowball him and he gets a respectable offer. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I love me some Millsap and want him back here; but if he's going to be asking for top dollar, then I might be inclined to throw a max contract at Marc Gasol first just to see if we could lure him here. He's one of the very few bigs that could play in our defensive scheme and still do what we like on offense, and at a true 7 feet tall. I still hope things work out with Millsap though - you don't want to fix what's not broken unless you have no choice.

I didn't want to say it but he's probably gone. I hope Marc Gasol gives us a serious chance but I am aiming on Greg Monroe the most. Monroe wants to be in Atlanta and fits. 

[HawkItus]

Tell me this, can you factually say Dominique requested a statue?  I have not seen this reported anywhere. I see where there were plans to build this and Ferry bonked it.  I'm guessing many of you aren't from Atlanta.  Save the Braves nobody has a ring.  This whole myth that he wasn't successful is ludicrous.

 

It's kind of dishonest to not actually point out who is doing this. You've created a fictional character as far as I can see.

And you're also sidestepping an issue that many people have brought up, which is what is the merit of a statue? What's the criteria? And further, why stop at statue? Let's have an Atlanta Holiday where we celebrate Nique's life and have a parade every January 12th. We will shut down every non-essential business in the city to celebrate all that Nique has done. I mean, he is the greatest in Atlanta History so he deserves it {/sarcasm}, right?

Don't sidestep larger questions. And don't pretend like Nique hasn't been honored. He is easily the most honored Hawk in the history of the Hawks...but I guess this statue is just the last thing he needs to be honored with. Right? We give him this and everything will be fine and dandy?

 

 

I don't care if he gets a statue or not.  In my opinion, he has done nothing to merit it, but that's just my opinion. Hank Aaron deserves one (as the real home run champion w/o steroid use), but not Nique. I'm just ticked off that it seems Nique puts his own arrogance over the good of the team in siding with Gearon.

[AHF]

It's kind of dishonest to not actually point out who is doing this. You've created a fictional character as far as I can see.

And you're also sidestepping an issue that many people have brought up, which is what is the merit of a statue? What's the criteria? And further, why stop at statue? Let's have an Atlanta Holiday where we celebrate Nique's life and have a parade every January 12th. We will shut down every non-essential business in the city to celebrate all that Nique has done. I mean, he is the greatest in Atlanta History so he deserves it {/sarcasm}, right?

Don't sidestep larger questions. And don't pretend like Nique hasn't been honored. He is easily the most honored Hawk in the history of the Hawks...but I guess this statue is just the last thing he needs to be honored with. Right? We give him this and everything will be fine and dandy?

 

It is obvious who did that on this thread.  I am not pointing them out so it doesn't appear I am calling them out.  These are not fictional but the actual two examples in the last couple pages of this thread.

 

We can have a reasoned discussion on statues.  You "parade of deliberate exaggerations" isn't part of that.  Statues and similar things are given to highly successful celebrities all the time.  Stockton and Malone have their statue.  Chick Hearn has a statue outside the Staples center.   Hank Aaron (zero championships in Atlanta) has his statue right down the road.  At the nearest MLB park to may house, Stan Musial has not one but two statues along with broadcaster Jack Buck and former owner August Busch Jr.

 

Heck, Hank Aaron also has a statue in Milwaukee.

 

I don't think anybody is inherently unreasonable for not wanting a statue of Nique but neither is it unreasonable to think that such a statue might be appropriate.  There are numerous examples of statues being put up for every category of player that people have railed against:  living players get them all the time; non-champions get the all the time; etc.  Nique would not be even close to the bottom of the heap as far as a player's stature in their sport (see guys who don't rank near the tops of the major records like Frank Thomas with his statue in Chicago).

 

People can make the argument both ways on this but making it by comparing Nique to one of us schmucks on the Squawk or Josh Smith or by comparing the idea of a statue at the Hawks arena for Nique to shutting down all non-essential business in the city to celebrate Nique does not advance that conversation.  At all.

[JETSET]

Speaking about that, I don't know if anyone else saw this posted 2 days ago about Millsap:

 

 

Sounds like there wont be much of a (hometeam/good team) discount from Millsap that many of us were hoping for. Of course, this could all just be posturing on his part to make sure the Hawks don't lowball him and he gets a respectable offer. I guess we'll find out soon enough. I love me some Millsap and want him back here; but if he's going to be asking for top dollar, then I might be inclined to throw a max contract at Marc Gasol first just to see if we could lure him here. He's one of the very few bigs that could play in our defensive scheme and still do what we like on offense, and at a true 7 feet tall. I still hope things work out with Millsap though - you don't want to fix what's not broken unless you have no choice.

That quote screams to me that we have the advantage.  He says that these things are most important:

 

"Where our team is at, can I grow with this team, how’s the coach, how’s the community?"

 

Name another team that can offer him the following:

 

-A true contender

-In 2 years with the Hawks he has been an All-Star both years

-Allowing him to play to his strengths

-A great coach who he seems to have a great relationship with

-Community - All of the players have mentioned how they get along great in the locker room.

 

That quote makes me more comfortable, than ever, that Millsap will be a Hawk if we want him to be.

Edited February 16, 2015 by JETSET

[NBASupes]

Ferry stans are also Nique haters. Hate the face of the franchise for a hardheaded GM who is suspended. 

[AHF]

Ferry stans are also Nique haters. Hate the face of the franchise for a hardheaded GM who is suspended. 

 

 

I don't think there needs to be something where people who like Ferry hate Nique or vice-versa.  There is some of that going on here but I don't see a need to pick sides.  Heck, there is no need to paint either of them as a villian or a saint.  Nique loses points with me for aligning himself with Gearon and being unreasonably critical of Ferry and gets points for what he did with the Hawks and the time he has devoted to the team since retirement from the game.  Ferry loses points with me for his gaffe of filtering the scouting report in the worst possible way and gets points with me for the work he has done by hiring Bud and making smart cap decisions that have led to our first real contender in years.  Both Nique and Ferry look kind of bad to me for being as upset about the statute as Nique appears to be and for blocking it in the first place like Ferry did -- assuming what is coming through the media is accurate on both of them, which I take with a grain of salt.

[JETSET]

Ferry stans are also Nique haters. Hate the face of the franchise for a hardheaded GM who is suspended. 

 

No one hates Nique.  They just hate the fact that he's willing to throw the team under the bus for his own gain.  If the players want Ferry back, the fans and Nique should as well. 

Edited February 16, 2015 by JETSET

[AHF]

You should give up on attempting to speak for others since you are pretty terrible at it.

 

No one hates Nique.  They just hate the fact that he's willing to throw the team under the bus for his own gain.  If the players want Ferry back, the fans and Nique should as well. 

 

I don't see how it is worth getting riled up about.  Nique isn't throwing the team under the bus.  He has done little but praise and support the team this season.  He is throwing Ferry under the bus (which is different) as part of the Gearon clan agenda.  I don't like that but who really cares?  

 

Nique won't make the call on Ferry's future.  That will be our new owner and that choice won't come down to deciding whether Koonin was right for supporting a Nique statue or Ferry was right for trying to block it.  

 

Life is too short to get too worked up about this.  Let the new owner come in and make the choice.  Nique will live with that choice just like we all will.