Stein: "Hawks offered more than 3 first rounders for PG-13 and Jimmy Butler"

[hazer]

Same here, not pissed at Budcox anymore. Just pissed we didn't land 1 of those 2.

[jy23]

They're not content with being a middle of the road franchise. It'll pay off eventually 

[skimaskway23]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

I cannot see a world where the Hawks are moving THj at this point in time. Now Timmy, is worth more than 2 of those picks. He is locked up next year at just over $3 million (a pittance) and producing more than $15 million a year Bazemore. THj is currently my favorite Hawk, the closest thing to a clutch player that we have and at $3 million a year, a better value than anyone on the roster. Indy would have been fools not to take a deal with Hardaway involved.

Because of how low his salary is, THj was by far our best commodity and was probably the sticking point to a deal. I would bet Indy wanted him + the picks and we said no.

Tim is a free agent at the end of the season.

[Plainview1981]

8 minutes ago, jy23 said:

They're not content with being a middle of the road franchise. It'll pay off eventually 

They're content with going out in the first round. Sorry, but no team with Moose as the backup center and Delaney as the back up PG can seriously believe they can make any sort of playoff run.

[bleachkit]

We are in trouble. We are stuck with mediocre Baze, dude is 27, he's not 19. We can stop pretending he is going to be a centerpiece. TMJ is going to cost a pretty penny to keep now. Milsap is going to cost us the GDP of a small nation. Dennis and Dwight aren't good enough or consistent enough to carry this team. I see why they were going all out to get Butler or George. That is our only hope of being relevant.

[jy23]

12 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

They're content with going out in the first round. Sorry, but no team with Moose as the backup center and Delaney as the back up PG can seriously believe they can make any sort of playoff run.

Don't think I said anything about winning this year. They understood that the team needed a splash bc we can't compete as constructed but it didn't work out. 

[thecampster]

44 minutes ago, skimaskway23 said:

Tim is a free agent at the end of the season.

We can extend the qualifying offer and then match anything he's offered so no, he's a restricted free agent only.

[rd79]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

We can extend the qualifying offer and then match anything he's offered so no, he's a restricted free agent only.

But it will be much more than the mentioned 3M...

[hawkman]

They tried? So this is what we've come to as a fan base? The Falcons "tried" to win a Super Bowl. I hate to be unreasonable but I'm ready for tangible results.

[yungsta]

5 hours ago, thecampster said:

We can extend the qualifying offer and then match anything he's offered so no, he's a restricted free agent only.

 Being a restricted free agent means its guaranteed that he is going to get overpaid in the off season which makes him significantly less valuable as a trade piece. 

We are most likely looking at close to a 20 mil a yr salary for him

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by yungsta

[Thomas]

Surprised at the size of the (unlike the Hawks type of) offer we made but understand why other teams are not willing to give up their franchise players for first rounders that are not too much better than early second rounders for the most part. Does show the FO has more courage to move on a deal than I previously thought and am appreciating that anyway. Very aggressive work by them.    

[JTB]

53 minutes ago, hawkman said:

They tried? So this is what we've come to as a fan base? The Falcons "tried" to win a Super Bowl. I hate to be unreasonable but I'm ready for tangible results.

How do expect results so quickly from a franchise that most players in the NBA  label a joke? 

None of the past gms even attempted to go after stars cause if they did we would have known about it in some article released either after the trade deadline or in the off season.

you can't just break a culture that quick. You have to keep hard pressing like bud and Wilcox are doing then eventually and hopefully something will work out. The thing about trying and not trying goes a long way. Past gms settle and budcox continues to try to move the needle in a big way.

 

On another note Falcons had the Super Bowl won and if it wasn't for badly called plays by Shanahan during a clock management situation Falcons win that game. Everyone wants to blame the young Falcons defense that had a total of 6 rookies and second year pros but they honestly just got gassed and the offense didn't help keep them off the field to stay fresh.

 

However Falcons are in a MUCH better situation than the Hawks. That team is young on both ends and fully capable of being dominant. They really only have a few holes where as the Hawks.......

[macdaddy]

We should have tried harder.   Refusing to deal our 'core' guys has screwed this franchise for years. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, bleachkit said:

We can stop pretending he is going to be a centerpiece. 

I don't have to stop pretending because I never thought of Baze as a centerpiece and I don't think anybody here did.

Just a piece to the puzzle.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

We should have tried harder.   Refusing to deal our 'core' guys has screwed this franchise for years. 

I understand the sentiment but why trade a  'core' player if you are getting shit in return

Example: if we dealt Al last year to Boston, what was on the table? Olynyk, Amir, Smart, Boston's #23 pick, NO BKN pick- that doesn't help us get PG.

Who else wanted Al, Houston? They wanted Al and a pick for Dwight. 

Indy wanted a 'core' guy in Millsap to pair WITH PG. They offered Monta and their 2017 1st - how does that help us turn around and make a play for Jimmy.  Teague to Philly for Staukus, Ish (FA) and pick#24?  Those are the types of offers we were getting.

(As an aside Supes did  say that THjr and Bembry were included)

Josh Smith, LAL wanted him plus Teague and a pick for Psu Gasol. The Bucks offer was garbage long term contracts for middling players which would mean no Millsap that year.

[MaceCase]

2 hours ago, yungsta said:

 Being a restricted free agent means its guaranteed that he is going to get overpaid in the off season which makes him significantly less valuable as a trade piece. 

We are most likely looking at close to a 20 mil a yr salary for him

 

Not exactly, being restricted often also scares teams away, look at Terrence Jones.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I understand the sentiment but why trade a  'core' player if you are getting shit in return

Example: if we dealt Al last year to Boston, what was on the table? Olynyk, Amir, Smart, Boston's #23 pick, NO BKN pick- that doesn't help us get PG.

Who else wanted Al, Houston? They wanted Al and a pick for Dwight. 

Indy wanted a 'core' guy in Millsap to pair WITH PG. They offered Monta and their 2017 1st - how does that help us turn around and make a play for Jimmy.  Teague to Philly for Staukus, Ish (FA) and pick#24?  Those are the types of offers we were getting.

(As an aside Supes did  say that THjr and Bembry were included)

I have no issues with not dealing Horford or Sap.    And I'm not sure the Bulls or Pacers would have really pulled the trigger but there is a price for everything and we know that not having a star player is and will continue to be the Hawks problem.   A chance at one in his prime like PG and Butler?  I can't see not including Dennis in the deal.  I agree that wouldn't entice Indy but i think it would've enticed the Bulls.  

[AUhawksfan]

17 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I have no issues with not dealing Horford or Sap.    And I'm not sure the Bulls or Pacers would have really pulled the trigger but there is a price for everything and we know that not having a star player is and will continue to be the Hawks problem.   A chance at one in his prime like PG and Butler?  I can't see not including Dennis in the deal.  I agree that wouldn't entice Indy but i think it would've enticed the Bulls.  

I think they went after it the right way.  Maybe we offered Hardaway but I don't feel like he's worth much being an RFA at the end of this season (correct me if I'm wrong here).

I don't agree that throwing Dennis in a trade is smart.  You can say "oh we'll find another point guard and fill in the pieces" but that's easier said than done.  

Our core has been in the system awhile and works well together, so trying to bring in new pieces to fit around a new player in PG or Butler is too much risk to me and we might find ourselves in a similar position as Indiana is now.  They fit some pieces around PG and looked good on paper but we know how that has gone so far.  Then it would take us longer to mesh and by then maybe PG is frustrated and wants out again by the time his contract is up.

It's easier to ship future assets and bring in one player than to try and change the makeup of your team.  Also, I think we could still make a play in the offseason or draft depending how the season plays out for Chi and Ind.

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, AUhawksfan said:

I think they went after it the right way.  Maybe we offered Hardaway but I don't feel like he's worth much being an RFA at the end of this season (correct me if I'm wrong here).

I don't agree that throwing Dennis in a trade is smart.  You can say "oh we'll find another point guard and fill in the pieces" but that's easier said than done.  

Our core has been in the system awhile and works well together, so trying to bring in new pieces to fit around a new player in PG or Butler is too much risk to me and we might find ourselves in a similar position as Indiana is now.  They fit some pieces around PG and looked good on paper but we know how that has gone so far.  Then it would take us longer to mesh and by then maybe PG is frustrated and wants out again by the time his contract is up.

It's easier to ship future assets and bring in one player than to try and change the makeup of your team.  Also, I think we could still make a play in the offseason or draft depending how the season plays out for Chi and Ind.

I hope you're right about the offseason but really is it easier to find a PG as good as Dennis or find a player in their prime as good as Butler or PG?   

I guess i'm getting frustrated with all the 'trying' that our front office is doing.   I know trades are hard.   I was fine with Horford walking and wish we would have just left the one offer on the table rather than begging at his heels on the way out of town.   Signing Horford was their number one priority in the offseason and they failed.   Again, i'm glad they did but it doesn't change the fact that they failed in their stated goal.   

I'm a big supporter of Bud's but he needs to start getting some front office results.   So far in the last two years it's been a departure of talent in a big way without much coming in.   

[AHF]

44 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Not exactly, being restricted often also scares teams away, look at Terrence Jones.

No doubt being a RFA depresses his value compared to an UFA.  But we aren't getting him back for $3M either.  The question is more whether it will cost somewhere on the order of 3x that salary or 5x.  

 

Combined it looks like Baze and THJr will give us a solid starter and ok bench reserve next year for somewhere in the range of best case $25M to worst case of $32M.  That ties up roughly roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of our total cap space in those two.