2018 draft

[KB21]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I've continued to beat on this drum but how can Doncic become a superstar when the most important skill to have at SG is the athletic ability? He's not tall enough to be a full-time SF and be effective defensively. Is he not athletic enough to be an SG full time? What's his NBA position? There is a significant gap in athletic ability from FIBA to the NBA style. Until someone can answer this, Doncic will likely stay at #5 on my board. Now if Doncic was 6'9, he would be the #1 guy on my board and in Larry Bird territory. But for right now, he's a decent athletic Gordon Hayward type with more skills potential. That's nothing special if we are comparing him to anomalies like Ayton, Bamba, Porter Jr. and Bagley. 

Doncic is perfect for Europe. The best talent to grace Europe likely since Sabonis. Dirk did his growing in the NBA so I didn't include him. But Dirk had things that made him an anomaly, what does Doncic do that makes him an anomaly? 

The fact that he IS 6'9" with point guard passing skills, ball handling ability, and vision.....along with the ability to score from all three levels.

[DBac]

Duke is playing a fake school tonight.

 

Really really huge matchup Tuesday though

 

Michigan State (Miles Bridges, Jaren Jackson Jr) vs Duke (Marvin Bagley, Wendell Carter). 

[marco102]

55 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I had a long reply but lost it when I hit reply. I disagree with a number of statements. The one about old school. The one about Curry not being an great athlete. The one about Doncic at the 2. 

Curry was considered a pure shooter when he came out of college.  I'm not saying he's no athletic, but it's the same way you are saying Doncic isn't athletic.  When compared to Russell Westbrook, Curry is not very athletic.  Doncic is probably more athletic than Klay Thompson which some here want. 

In Bud's system the two and three are interchangeable, hence he can play 2 if Bud is still around.

 

[Guard]

Guys like Curry and Irving have great ball handling along with good timing and change of direction. Couple that with their scoring ability and their suspect  athlecism doesn't hinder them at all. It also helps that both players aren't defensive liabilities. 

Doncic definitely is a top 3 talent but its natural to worry about his athleticism.     

Edited November 12, 2017 by Guard

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, marco102 said:

Curry was considered a pure shooter when he came out of college.  I'm not saying he's no athletic, but it's the same way you are saying Doncic isn't athletic.  When compared to Russell Westbrook, Curry is not very athletic.  Doncic is probably more athletic than Klay Thompson which some here want. 

In Bud's system the two and three are interchangeable, hence he can play 2 if Bud is still around.

 

Doncic is not more athletic or even close to as athletic as Klay. It's not even close. Klay has good lateral quickness. Klay in college had a decent first step. The NBA makes you think Klay is less athletic than he is but that's just how athletic the NBA is. You put Klay in the euroleagues and he would seem like Michael Jordan to you. 

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

The fact that he IS 6'9" with point guard passing skills, ball handling ability, and vision.....along with the ability to score from all three levels.

I haven't seen anyone who's watched him live tell me he's over 6'7. 

Almost everyone I know who's seen him said he's 6'6ish. At most 6'7. 

[DBac]

Wendell Carter put on a show tonight

 

If he's the pick then something probably went very wrong for us, but he's a nice player.

Edited November 12, 2017 by DBac

[nathan2331]

Would Doncic really have to be that athletic to excel at SG? Harden, Thompson and Beal don't scream "elite NBA athleticism" but they get it done. Watching him on film Doncic doesn't look slow either.

 

Between now and the draft we'll see how the season pans out, but if we plan on having Prince and Collins as our long-term SF and PF (which I definitely think they are) then we need to draft a playmaking SG or top prospect at C. If we consider fit, I think Doncic would be perfect for us. He's poised, scores in different ways, and could play PG or SF in spots giving us more versatility.

 

A lineup of:

Schröder/Doncic/Prince/Collins/Okafor gives us a young core we could compete with. All we need is a another big to come of the bench next to Dedmon, perhaps an upgrade at backup PG and some time, and we'll definitely become a playoff team in 2-3 years with room to grow.

 

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[Guard]

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Guard

[DBac]

On 11/11/2017 at 8:23 PM, nathan2331 said:

 

A lineup of:

Schröder/Doncic/Prince/Collins/Okafor gives us a young core we could compete with. All we need is a another big to come of the bench next to Dedmon, perhaps an upgrade at backup PG and some time, and we'll definitely become a playoff team in 2-3 years with room to grow.

 

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That team would be absolutely dreadful defensively imo... Doncic is better than he gets credit for but he is not 'good' on defense. Dennis and Collins aren't good on that end either (Dennis is mentality/size related, Collins is raw.. maybe he becomes better with time but his lack of length also hurts). Okafor is one of the worst defenders in the NBA period. It would take some serious Bud magic to keep that team out of the bottom 3 defenses in the league.

Thanks for posting Bamba, haven't gotten a chance to watch him at all.

Thanks for posting Bamba, haven't gotten to watch him yet.

 

 

 

 

 

[marco102]

54 minutes ago, Guard said:

 

 

 

I don''t know what it is, but if it came down to the two big men, sign me up for Bamba.

[nathan2331]

 

 

That team would be absolutely dreadful defensively imo... Doncic is better than he gets credit for but he is not 'good' on defense. Dennis and Collins aren't good on that end either (Dennis is mentality/size related, Collins is raw.. maybe he becomes better with time but his lack of length also hurts). Okafor is one of the worst defenders in the NBA period. It would take some serious Bud magic to keep that team out of the bottom 3 defenses in the league.

Thanks for posting Bamba, haven't gotten a chance to watch him at all.

Thanks for posting Bamba, haven't gotten to watch him yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Coach Bud can figure out the defense. A team of Teague/Korver/Carroll/Millsap/Horford on paper doesn't sound like a great lineup defensively either, but obviously good things happen when players buy into the system. Okafor of course has legitimate concerns about his mentality, but his talent is evident. Collins doesn't play good today, but I think he'll improve in that area as he adjusts to the league. The Hawks will improve players deficiencies so long as coach Bud is here. So long as everyone buys into the system I wouldn't worry about defense.

 

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[DBac]

38 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

Coach Bud can figure out the defense. A team of Teague/Korver/Carroll/Millsap/Horford on paper doesn't sound like a great lineup defensively either, but obviously good things happen when players buy into the system. Okafor of course has legitimate concerns about his mentality, but his talent is evident. Collins doesn't play good today, but I think he'll improve in that area as he adjusts to the league. The Hawks will improve players deficiencies so long as coach Bud is here. So long as everyone buys into the system I wouldn't worry about defense.

 

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Millsap Horford and Carroll are all really good defensive players. We were flying around trapping people with him and Millsap.

 

Horford can struggle vs bigger centers but vs guys around his size he's pretty good.

Edited November 13, 2017 by DBac

[NBASupes]

On 11/11/2017 at 8:23 PM, nathan2331 said:

Would Doncic really have to be that athletic to excel at SG? Harden, Thompson and Beal don't scream "elite NBA athleticism" but they get it done. Watching him on film Doncic doesn't look slow either.

 

Between now and the draft we'll see how the season pans out, but if we plan on having Prince and Collins as our long-term SF and PF (which I definitely think they are) then we need to draft a playmaking SG or top prospect at C. If we consider fit, I think Doncic would be perfect for us. He's poised, scores in different ways, and could play PG or SF in spots giving us more versatility.

 

A lineup of:

Schröder/Doncic/Prince/Collins/Okafor gives us a young core we could compete with. All we need is a another big to come of the bench next to Dedmon, perhaps an upgrade at backup PG and some time, and we'll definitely become a playoff team in 2-3 years with room to grow.

 

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He's no where near as athletic as any of those guys you mentioned. 

That lineup is not appealing at all. Okafor as a starter in this system... Naw, I'll pass

[nathan2331]

He's no where near as athletic as any of those guys you mentioned. 

That lineup is not appealing at all. Okafor as a starter in this system... Naw, I'll pass

How can we say he isn't? The guys I named aren't that athletic. I'm not claiming Doncic jumps out the gym, but I think he'd hold his own. We'll get that question answered regardless, so well eventually see how he stacks up.

 

As far as that lineup is concerned, we could turn that into a decent Defensive lineup. Okafor is poor on defense, but if anyone could change that its Coach Bud.

 

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[NBASupes]

18 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

How can we say he isn't? The guys I named aren't that athletic. I'm not claiming Doncic jumps out the gym, but I think he'd hold his own. We'll get that question answered regardless, so well eventually see how he stacks up.

 

As far as that lineup is concerned, we could turn that into a decent Defensive lineup. Okafor is poor on defense, but if anyone could change that its Coach Bud.

 

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Bradley Beal not athletic? 

Klay not athletic? 

Harden, not athletic? 

 

Are you insane? These three are very athletic SG's. Beal is very quick. Klay has very good speed and lateral quickness for a NBA player much less a college prospect. Harden, not athletic? 

 

I don't think you eyes are working correctly. That's literally insane what you just wrote.

 

We couldn't change Dwight into a good defender. We couldn't change Bazemore into making sensible decisions on the ball, so how can we make the impossible, possible without the players who can hide his weaknesses? I am not following, I simply do not get your take? 

[nathan2331]

 

 

Bradley Beal not athletic? 

Klay not athletic? 

Harden, not athletic? 

 

Are you insane? These three are very athletic SG's. Beal is very quick. Klay has very good speed and lateral quickness for a NBA player much less a college prospect. Harden, not athletic? 

 

I don't think you eyes are working correctly. That's literally insane what you just wrote.

 

We couldn't change Dwight into a good defender. We couldn't change Bazemore into making sensible decisions on the ball, so how can we make the impossible, possible without the players who can hide his weaknesses? I am not following, I simply do not get your take? 

 

Obviously they are great athletes. But they aren't elite in their measurements (from what I remember). Doncic on tape doesn't look poor is what I'm trying to say. With his height advantage at SG, he shouldn't struggle to get his shot off in the NBA. Now, maybe there are better prospects and we'll see, but I'm sold on Doncic being the real deal.

 

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[DBac]

thoughts on MSU vs Duke:

 

- Jaren Jackson Jr is a stud... he tries to do too much sometimes but gotta remember he's one of the youngest guys in this draft, plenty of time for him to work on his discipline (made some good passes but also forced it a bit, got handsy on defense). Knows how to use his length and is a legit threat from 3 too. Has some dog in him.

- Duval could be special if he could shoot. He needs to go back to school or get with a really good development team. Gets to the rim and passes well.

- Bridges doesn't look much better than last year tbh. He has some Westbrook in him from a mentality standpoint, for better and worse.

- Sucked to see Bagley go out with the eye injury (thing was almost swollen shut).. at the very least he's gonna be useful as a rebound and putback guy. Had a ton of offensive rebounds in his little playing time.

- Wendell Carter is a bully down low. Hard to peg where he'll go in the draft as he's not a sexy pick at all but I like his game.

- Grayson Allen was balling,late first type guy.

[KB21]

Jackson is the most impressive freshman I've seen yet.  He has impressive length, can rebound, blocks shots, and has range out to the three point line.  His body is developing, but he has the potential to be a two way guy at the power forward position that can stretch the floor.  His skill level is far better than his more hyped up class mates.  He stood out to me when I saw the Hoop Summit game as well.

[KB21]

Oh, I would also add that there is no way I'd take Trevon Duval in the first round at all.  The guy can't shoot a lick.