I'm confused

[Peoriabird]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Oh that's easy

 

1) Our best one on one defenders are gone ( Millsap and Sefolosha )

 

Sefolosha barely played last year and wasn't used at all in the playoffs by the way.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Something he has done repeatedly in thed past so the question is...Does Bud ball still work? Or was it a gimmick that got figured out late during our 60 win season?

A lot of people seem to be making excuses for Bud.  All I know is that they better hope that he's not trying to win these games.  If he is, that means the strategy and lineups are flawed as hell.

RIP Bud 2019, if he can't get this right, and quickly.

[Peoriabird]

37 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

A lot of people seem to be making excuses for Bud.  All I know is that they better hope that he's not trying to win these games.  If he is, that means the strategy and lineups are flawed as hell.

Haven't we seen this kind up flawed strategy before? Like last year's playoffs? Playing Baze as the back up point guard or replacing Howard with Muscala in fourth quarters of critical games?

[JTB]

11 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm not talking about Schlenk...I'm talking about Bud.

I get that but Bud is apart of this tanking on purpose too. My point is he’s doing what’s told as far as tossing the game. As for his lineups and why he plays this person over that person or whatever that’s all just Bud experimenting with shit if you ask me. Bud knows this is a toss away season in hopes of landing a top 2 pick. 

I wouldn’t read too much into Buds lineups this year...while I believe he still cares due to his competitive nature, I also believe he wants to experiment perhaps on lineups he’d never experiment with during a playoff season.

[Peoriabird]

6 minutes ago, JTB said:

I get that but Bud is apart of this tanking on purpose too. My point is he’s doing what’s told as far as tossing the game. As for his lineups and why he plays this person over that person or whatever that’s all just Bud experimenting with shit if you ask me. Bud knows this is a toss away season in hopes of landing a top 2 pick. 

I wouldn’t read too much into Buds lineups this year...while I believe he still cares due to his competitive nature, I also believe he wants to experiment perhaps on lineups he’d never experiment with during a playoff season.

So you are one of the few that thinks that Bud is purposefully losing games.

[hazer]

11 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I'm not talking about Schlenk...I'm talking about Bud.

Well that’s a first 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, hazer said:

Well that’s a first 

So is Bud losing games on purpose?

[hazer]

35 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So is Bud losing games on purpose?

No. Just as he’s not trying to win games on purpose.

[supermariowest]

13 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So what's with the Delaney experiment? Why sit John Collins? Why feature Baze? Why were we wasting time with Luke Babbitt? Why foul Jordan?  all of these acts are mixed signals!

All good questions. I've been getting those mixed signals as well. The approach seems bizarre indeed... Turn on, tune in, drop out, and tank!

12 hours ago, sturt said:

You'd have to ask Bud to be sure, of course, but my working theory has been

(a) that sometimes it's as much about allowing a player some down time from action (and thus some observation time) as it is putting him on the floor.

And (b) some of these players are proxies for future players who the young pillars will play beside when the team start prioritizing winning again... there's something to be gained playing beside a Luke Babbitt, not because Babbitt himself will be out there in 2 years, but a player not unlike Babbitt will be.

And finally (c), there's the trade deadline interest... some players get some of their minutes simply out of an interest to possibly tempt other teams to offer something.

Those are my inclinations.

Oh, and why foul Jordan? Again... it's not that there's NO interest in winning. It's still a priority, and so if the other priorities are getting adequate treatment, then winning gets its due as well.

All good, reasonable responses. Perhaps a bit optimistic, but I don't think we have a reason to not give Bud the benefit of the doubt (yet).

[AHF]

I don't think Bud is trying to win.  I think he is playing veterans because he thinks that this is the right way to train younger players - by playing them with people who understand where they are supposed to be on the floor, etc - and because they will look to flip those vets for assets later in the season.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, hazer said:

No. Just as he’s not trying to win games on purpose but he is trying to lose (Bosses orders).

Fixed.

lol j/k I like the “he’s just not trying to win games” comment. Sounds a lot better than “he’s trying to lose on purpose”

Edited January 10, 2018 by JTB

[Peoriabird]

50 minutes ago, AHF said:

I don't think Bud is trying to win.  I think he is playing veterans because he thinks that this is the right way to train younger players - by playing them with people who understand where they are supposed to be on the floor, etc - and because they will look to flip those vets for assets later in the season.

By that logic, the defense should be better...Not last in the league. I think we are all confused by the choices Bud has made this year. Maybe he isn't trying win which would be strange since he is more animated on the sideline than ever before. Maybe I just don't understand him but he is a source of a good discussion. Ive been confused with his choices for a while now and this year has been his worse so far.

[Packfill]

Right now it appears the Hawks main focus is to showcase tradeable assets.  Once the trade deadlines passes my guess is Collins and others younger players get more burn.

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, Packfill said:

Right now it appears the Hawks main focus is to showcase tradeable assets.  Once the trade deadlines passes my guess is Collins and others younger players get more burn.

How does this explain the Luke Babbitt usesage at the beginning of the season. Do you think that Muscala, Plumlee, and Delaney are tradeable assets? Why would you want to trade Dedmon?

[benhillboy]

16 hours ago, AHF said:

The biggest reasons are youth, low level of talent on defense, and a plan to lose while 'competing'.  I'd say Dedmon is probably our only above average defender at this point.

Baze and Collins the only two with DBPM over 1 point.  Collins is nowhere near a good defender yet but raw rebounds and blocks in low minutes versus reserves boosts his impact a lot.  Baze has been great for the most part but still fouling three point shooters.

Edited January 10, 2018 by benhillboy

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

By that logic, the defense should be better...Not last in the league. I think we are all confused by the choices Bud has made this year. Maybe he isn't trying win which would be strange since he is more animated on the sideline than ever before. Maybe I just don't understand him but he is a source of a good discussion. Ive been confused with his choices for a while now and this year has been his worse so far.

Here is how I see our defenders by minutes played:

Prince - Below average defender.  Shows some promise for the future.

Dennis - Below average defender.  Decent on ball defender and terrible off the ball defender.  

Bazemore - Average defender.  Very active but too often wasted motion and bad fouls.  Best wing/guard defender.

Beli - Below average defender.  Offense drives his value.

Collins - Below average defender.  Lots to learn.  Strong and athletic enough to improve significantly but length limits long-term upside on D.

Ilya - Below average defender.  Kind of a Korver equivalent in the frontcourt.

Delaney - Below average defender.  Can't say where his value lies.  His 39% / 35% shooting is a real improvement over last year?

Babbit - Below average defender.  Spreads the floor but doesn't do much on D.  Rotates as expected but just very limited.

Dedmon - Plus defender.  Downside is he is #9 on the team in minutes played due to injuries.

Taylor- Below average defender.

Cavanaugh - Below average defender.

Plumlee - Average defender.  Gives you near nothing on offense which makes him tough to play.  Nothing great on D but strong enough to man up on the interior.

Bembry - Average to below average defender.  Has shown flashes of being a plus defender but has struggled at other times.  Seems to vary game to game more than most of our team.  Overall probably below average at this point.

Muscala - Below average.  

Dorsey - Below average.

 

Add up a bunch of below average players and you get a pretty dismal defense.

 

[Packfill]

5 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

How does this explain the Luke Babbitt usesage at the beginning of the season. Do you think that Muscala, Plumlee, and Delaney are tradeable assets? Why would you want to trade Dedmon?

Babbitt played due to the lack of other warm bodies.  I am certain they would love to trade Plumlee, Baze, Belinelli and/or Ersan if it nests them some future assets, and I am willing to bet they would agree to take on some bad contracts to do so (particularly in trading the rental guys).

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Here is how I see our defenders by minutes played:

Prince - Below average defender.  Shows some promise for the future.

Dennis - Below average defender.  Decent on ball defender and terrible off the ball defender.  

Bazemore - Average defender.  Very active but too often wasted motion and bad fouls.  Best wing/guard defender.

Beli - Below average defender.  Offense drives his value.

Collins - Below average defender.  Lots to learn.  Strong and athletic enough to improve significantly but length limits long-term upside on D.

Ilya - Below average defender.  Kind of a Korver equivalent in the frontcourt.

Delaney - Below average defender.  Can't say where his value lies.  His 39% / 35% shooting is a real improvement over last year?

Babbit - Below average defender.  Spreads the floor but doesn't do much on D.  Rotates as expected but just very limited.

Dedmon - Plus defender.  Downside is he is #9 on the team in minutes played due to injuries.

Taylor- Below average defender.

Cavanaugh - Below average defender.

Plumlee - Average defender.  Gives you near nothing on offense which makes him tough to play.  Nothing great on D but strong enough to man up on the interior.

Bembry - Average to below average defender.  Has shown flashes of being a plus defender but has struggled at other times.  Seems to vary game to game more than most of our team.  Overall probably below average at this point.

Muscala - Below average.  

Dorsey - Below average.

 

Add up a bunch of below average players and you get a pretty dismal defense.

 

So adding Hardaway, Millsap and Howard makes this team a competent defense? Cause those are the only players that got significant minutes last year vs this year.

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Packfill said:

Babbitt played due to the lack of other warm bodies.  I am certain they would love to trade Plumlee, Baze, Belinelli and/or Ersan if it nests them some future assets, and I am willing to bet they would agree to take on some bad contracts to do so (particularly in trading the rental guys).

Babbitt played over a healthy Illyasova and Collins. I asked about Plummer , Muscala and Delaney because they are being worked into the line ups and are not tradable assests.

[Peoriabird]

And why is Bud falling in love with a center that gives you no offense and 3-4 rebounds per game?