Trae Young

[bleachkit]

19 hours ago, Jody23 said:

I would fully support that pick and I think teams will regret it if they pass on him.  The same way we regretted passing on Chris Paul.  People over think things a lot.  His skill level and ability on offense is ridiculous.  Some guys in the NBA don't have his skill level.  And people think he's not quick?  I don't know what they're looking at.

I think a big part is height bias. If a guy is only 6'1" or 6'2" people do not want that person over the 6'10'' 6'11" guy, regardless of production or skill. How else do you explained an utterly unskilled but tall Hasheem Thabeet going ahead of the best scorer in college basketball, Steph Curry. Height bias is pervasive across basketball scouting, and had led to many poor draft choices.

[bleachkit]

13 hours ago, AHF said:

As a UK fan, I'll raise one consideration there.  He ended up passing on UK because he didn't want to share the ball with the other recruits and wanted a system that ran entirely through him.  When Calipari wouldn't promise that, he went to a team with nobody who could even be close to an alpha.  It would be an interesting turn if he didn't want that again in the NBA.  That may be fine but I worry a bit about Maravich syndrome.  At least Young is winning pretty big in college.

Couch Cal can't even promise minutes. At OU Young is one the most exciting players in the country. It was clearly the right decision. 

[Jody23]

40 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I think a big part is height bias. If a guy is only 6'1" or 6'2" people do not want that person over the 6'10'' 6'11" guy, regardless of production or skill. How else do you explained an utterly unskilled but tall Hasheem Thabeet going ahead of the best scorer in college basketball, Steph Curry. Height bias is pervasive across basketball scouting, and had led to many poor draft choices.

If you don't learn from history, you're bound to repeat it.  If any team, including the Hawks, take a guy in large part because he's taller, then they'll deserve exactly what they get.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Jody23

[AHF]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

Couch Cal can't even promise minutes. At OU Young is one the most exciting players in the country. It was clearly the right decision. 

I don't want an AI who wants every possession running through him and who doesn't contribute on D.  Just saying his rejection of playing in a system that wouldn't commit to featuring above other players before he arrived on campus him could be a bit of a warning sign.  While Kentucky was the main school he considered, there were tons of schools with more talented supporting casts he could have picked and didn't.  May be because of a want to play where he is but could be because he wanted to be The Man on every possession.  I don't know for sure but I'd want to dig into that before passing on other players as talented as the alternatives in this draft.  If a guy wants to be the next Russell Westbrook (dominating play) then I am wary of him.

[nathan2331]

Young is better than I've given him credit for, but this isn't a case of passing on Paul because Marvin is bigger. Marvin was a 6th man that produced well in that position. I wasn't watching during that draft process, but in hindsight I can see how the Hawks messed that up. But considering we already have Schröder, I'd rather draft outside that position.

 

We won't be in the lottery for long, maybe not past this year. The gap in rosters between us and say the Heat in 4th place is not staggering. I'd rather draft the big I think can be a star and keep the young guys we've got together. Thabeet never produced like Bagley or Ayton, so he shouldn't even be brought up.

[NBASupes]

8 hours ago, AHF said:

I don't want an AI who wants every possession running through him and who doesn't contribute on D.  Just saying his rejection of playing in a system that wouldn't commit to featuring above other players before he arrived on campus him could be a bit of a warning sign.  While Kentucky was the main school he considered, there were tons of schools with more talented supporting casts he could have picked and didn't.  May be because of a want to play where he is but could be because he wanted to be The Man on every possession.  I don't know for sure but I'd want to dig into that before passing on other players as talented as the alternatives in this draft.  If a guy wants to be the next Russell Westbrook (dominating play) then I am wary of him.

To me, the best example of what type of player he will be at the next level is Chris Jackson out of LSU. I don't see the smooth translation as others do. That said, I do think Chris Jackson would have been better in today's NBA than in the 90's. I don't see Steph. I continue to point out, Steph MASTERED the SG position in college. He had to learn to become a PG. Trae is a ball usage PnR, scoring shooting PG. We know that can work in the NBA, we see Lou Will. But that usually doesn't win games early on in their careers. Like Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, his style wins in college but I didn't see the transition in the NBA. 

That said, people forget Steph was a SG at Davidson for his FR and SO year and it was the BEST decision as he mastered the SG position. He knew how to play off of the ball at a professional level. People don't realize how vital this is in Steph's career. It not something that just can be taught. It's not as simple as being good running off of screens as a lead guard. 

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

Young is better than I've given him credit for, but this isn't a case of passing on Paul because Marvin is bigger. Marvin was a 6th man that produced well in that position. I wasn't watching during that draft process, but in hindsight I can see how the Hawks messed that up. But considering we already have Schröder, I'd rather draft outside that position.

 

We won't be in the lottery for long, maybe not past this year. The gap in rosters between us and say the Heat in 4th place is not staggering. I'd rather draft the big I think can be a star and keep the young guys we've got together. Thabeet never produced like Bagley or Ayton, so he shouldn't even be brought up.

I don't see how Young in the same league as Ayton, Bagley III, Doncic, Bamba or Porter III. I just don't. For college, he is better than all of them, for the NBA, he's going to have a tough time. He would be best going to a team who will let him do what he wants with no system like Orlando or Sacremento. 

[AHF]

I thought Chris Jackson would be great in the NBA.  Never quite met that expectation.  Still can't believe LSU with him, Stanley Roberts and Shaq didn't do much of anything in college ball.

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

I thought Chris Jackson would be great in the NBA.  Never quite met that expectation.  Still can't believe LSU with him, Stanley Roberts and Shaq didn't do much of anything in college ball.

For as dominant as Shaq was in college, it goes to show you the skill-set needed to be great in the NBA is night and day different than in the NCAA. Christian L was better than Shaq in college. It wasn't even close. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by NBASupes

[AHF]

20 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

For as dominant as Shaq was in college, it goes to show you the skill-set needed to be great in the NBA is night and day different than in the NCAA. Christian L was better than Shaq in college. It wasn't even close. 

I'd point more to the comparison of Hill and Laetner.  Too many other variables with Dale Brown and CoachK's programs.

[nathan2331]

 

 

I don't see how Young in the same league as Ayton, Bagley III, Doncic, Bamba or Porter III. I just don't. For college, he is better than all of them, for the NBA, he's going to have a tough time. He would be best going to a team who will let him do what he wants with no system like Orlando or Sacremento. 

 

I don't rate Young this highly, but if you think he's Curry 2.0, then drafting him #1 makes sense. I don't think he's got Curry's craftiness, and even if he did, like you've said he's going to have an uphill battle in the NBA. Ayton to me makes to much sense in a Hawks jersey. Find a SG to move Bazemore to the bench and we'll have a Celtics-like resurgence.

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

I don't rate Young this highly, but if you think he's Curry 2.0, then drafting him #1 makes sense. I don't think he's got Curry's craftiness, and even if he did, like you've said he's going to have an uphill battle in the NBA. Ayton to me makes to much sense in a Hawks jersey. Find a SG to move Bazemore to the bench and we'll have a Celtics-like resurgence.

It's not even craftiness, Curry was a SG for most of his college career. That's what made Curry great. He can play two positions at an elite level. He had to learn to play PG

[Jody23]

I don't really like the Curry comparison or the Chris Jackson comparison.  Young is more of a point guard at this stage than either of those guys were.  I see him being a different type of guard than those guys.  

[ATLien_]

I usually value well rounded players over offensive only players,  but the Hawks more than anything need to find a go to player on offense. Not having that player has limited all the Hawks playoff success over the years. We've had a ton of close games even against the Cavs that we couldn't even get shots off at the end of the game.  I think if Porter is healthy it would be hard to pass on him. He looks to me like he has the best potential to be a go to scorer in this group. Having the guy on offense helps everyone else fall into their proper roles.  It's early but I would go Porter, Ayton 1 and 2. Bagley Donic, Young, and are in my next tier in that order. Young is a chucker and I don't like that. He is definitely way faster than Donic though. Bagley is the most physically talented, but is short on skill. Bagley probably has the highest upside of all these guys.

Sleeper guy I like is Kevin Knox at Kentucky. He looks like he has two way star potential in the Paul George / Jimmy Butler mold. I don't  like him at one,  but I would try to satire aquire a second lottery pick to get him. 

[CP61]

That game tonight against K-State was... not ideal.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, CP61 said:

That game tonight against K-State was... not ideal.

He averaging 7.5 tpg. His percentages have fallen and he's looking well, stoppable. He's a top 10 guy for me but he's in the lane with DeAaron Fox and Collin Sexton. He's not in the convo for top 5 for me

[CP61]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He averaging 7.5 tpg. His percentages have fallen and he's looking well, stoppable. He's a top 10 guy for me but he's in the lane with DeAaron Fox and Collin Sexton. He's not in the convo for top 5 for me

Nah I still like him top 5 more than any prospect last year. He’s doing things I’ve never seen a college player do before. Plus he’s got that superstar it factor. He just pushes too much sometimes. He’s still the most efficient player in the country. 

[bleachkit]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He averaging 7.5 tpg. His percentages have fallen and he's looking well, stoppable. He's a top 10 guy for me but he's in the lane with DeAaron Fox and Collin Sexton. He's not in the convo for top 5 for me

Lets see how he plays the dance. A bad game is no biggie. A few bad games in a row will completely kill the hype train though.

[Lurker]

His turnovers do give me some pause but this is absolutely a mediocre team that he's carried and it plays a part in it. It's been bad for games now, not just that one. I finally tried to catch a game of his and it was absolutely awful. Maybe I should lay low again and see if it helps as he got my attention and I was watching from afar which may have jinxed him.

And I'll say it again, before this recent stretch he did well against good teams that were out of conference.

[JTB]

On 1/15/2018 at 1:57 AM, nathan2331 said:

 

 

 

 

I don't rate Young this highly, but if you think he's Curry 2.0, then drafting him #1 makes sense. I don't think he's got Curry's craftiness, and even if he did, like you've said he's going to have an uphill battle in the NBA. Ayton to me makes to much sense in a Hawks jersey. Find a SG to move Bazemore to the bench and we'll have a Celtics-like resurgence.

I respect every posters opinions but I really love this post! Ayton is starting to create a wide gap on my personal board!....I still like Doncic and wouldn’t be mad if we selected him but he’s not on Aytons ceiling level at this point.

Again...Love, Love, Love this comment...and hoping like hell we draft Ayton! Him and Collins would just be unbelievable! ...just throwing in my two cents.