News and Notes: Updated between Games

[Spud2nique]

46 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I need to see more from Luka before I crown him a super star.  28 points on 27 shots and 10 assist with 8 turnovers aren't superstar numbers.  Plus Dallas' defense may be worse than the Hawks next season. LOL!

But but but they have the most efficient offense in NBA history. If I hear that crap one more time ..

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I need to see more from Luka before I crown him a super star.  28 points on 27 shots and 10 assist with 8 turnovers aren't superstar numbers.  Plus Dallas' defense may be worse than the Hawks next season. LOL!

Thought this was interesting as it relates to the Mavs offensive efficiency:

"29th in efficiency in the last five minutes of a game, with the margin at five points or closer—according to NBA Advanced Stats."

That's a lot of bad shots/3s from Luka and KP early in the shot clock. Teams have actually been giving them those shots late since their conditioning is in question - no legs on those 3s.

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

I need to see more from Luka before I crown him a super star.  28 points on 27 shots and 10 assist with 8 turnovers aren't superstar numbers.  Plus Dallas' defense may be worse than the Hawks next season. LOL!

I'm hoping for a Dallas vs Houston playoff series. Plenty of scoring.

[AHF]

20 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I need to see more from Luka before I crown him a super star.  28 points on 27 shots and 10 assist with 8 turnovers aren't superstar numbers.  Plus Dallas' defense may be worse than the Hawks next season. LOL!

It those were his numbers, I could see your point but you seem to be pulling those numbers out of your rear:

28.9 ppg on 20.7 FGA, 9.3 rpg, 8.8 apg, 4.3 topg

29.6 ppg on 20.8 FGA, 4.3 rpg, 9.3 apg, 4.8 topg

Those are both superstar lines to me.

[kg01]

20 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

I need to see more from Luka before I crown him a super star.  28 points on 27 shots and 10 assist with 8 turnovers aren't superstar numbers.  Plus Dallas' defense may be worse than the Hawks next season. LOL!

They not only crown him a superstar, they call him a sure generational talent.  People say he's obviously gonna win multiple MVPs.  It's crazy.

I get that they hype tells you ('you' as in the media talking head) to speak of him as if he walks on water, but if you really look into the numbers and watch games you may have a different view.  Really good player.  Really good.  But do a better job of assessing what you're actually seeing.

Once you do that, you'll see a lotta 28 points on 25+ shot nights.  A lot of 10+ assist, 7+ turnover nights.  You'll also see some as bad/if not worse Trae-level bad/disinterested defense despite being 6'8" - which is worse considering he has the size to actually defend.

Give it a season or two.  When the results fail to match the hype, folks will start to see things closer to what they are.

[marco102]

36 minutes ago, AHF said:

It those were his numbers, I could see your point but you seem to be pulling those numbers out of your rear:

28.9 ppg on 20.7 FGA, 9.3 rpg, 8.8 apg, 4.3 topg

29.6 ppg on 20.8 FGA, 4.3 rpg, 9.3 apg, 4.8 topg

Those are both superstar lines to me.

I think @Peoriabird is talking about the game against Houston only. 

[Peoriabird]

32 minutes ago, AHF said:

It those were his numbers, I could see your point but you seem to be pulling those numbers out of your rear:

Out of my rear end?  These were his stats against the Houston Rockets.

L. DoncicSG	42	11-27	1-9	5-9	2	11	13	10	1	1	8	6	+0	28

[kg01]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Out of my rear end?  These were his stats against the Houston Rockets.

L. DoncicSG	42	11-27	1-9	5-9	2	11	13	10	1	1	8	6	+0	28

Not that it's any of my business, but I think @AHF owes Peo a heartfelt apology with sugar and sprinkles on top.

Don't get me wrong.  Peo likes to pull things outta his rear, it just happens he didn't this time. 

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

They not only crown him a superstar, they call him a sure generational talent.  People say he's obviously gonna win multiple MVPs.  It's crazy.

I get that they hype tells you ('you' as in the media talking head) to speak of him as if he walks on water, but if you really look into the numbers and watch games you may have a different view.  Really good player.  Really good.  But do a better job of assessing what you're actually seeing.

Once you do that, you'll see a lotta 28 points on 25+ shot nights.  A lot of 10+ assist, 7+ turnover nights.  You'll also see some as bad/if not worse Trae-level bad/disinterested defense despite being 6'8" - which is worse considering he has the size to actually defend.

Give it a season or two.  When the results fail to match the hype, folks will start to see things closer to what they are.

And Guess what...They lost again to a Phoenix team last night with their 2 best players limited by foul trouble. LOL!  Super star my azz!!

[AHF]

45 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Out of my rear end?  These were his stats against the Houston Rockets.

L. DoncicSG	42	11-27	1-9	5-9	2	11	13	10	1	1	8	6	+0	28

I guess if you are arguing that the right way to judge a player is on a single game rather than on a full season then we have to reframe this.

(a)  I'm sorry for saying you pulled that number out of your rear.  You based it on a single game which I wrongly assumed was so obviously a bad method to judge someone's career trajectory that it couldn't have been the case.  So you absolutely had a rock solid basis based on a single game.  But is that a meaningful way to evaluate someone?  Let's focus on that.

(b)  Judging someone on a single game is [redacted first 5 adjectives] not ideal.  And the fact that the game you pull is way below average for his season but he still put up 28 and 10 might speak volumes.   That is like saying LeBron wasn't a superstar while he won 3 consecutive MVPs because he put up 16 points on 4 for 14 shooting along with 7 assist and 4 turnovers against Orlando.  You can't be a superstar with that kind of line, right?  

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201203180MIA.html

Like, if you want to judge a guy picking out a single game is almost so obviously a bad method that I'm sorry we have to even talk about it.  No player goes through a season and avoids bad games.  You have to look at the total record.

I guess next you are going to say that Trae isn't a budding superstar because he put up 19 points on 17 shots along with  2 assists and 7 turnovers?  Come on.  

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202003020ATL.html

[marco102]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

I guess if you are arguing that the right way to judge a player is on a single game rather than on a full season then we have to reframe this.

(a)  I'm sorry for saying you pulled that number out of your rear.  You based it on a single game which I wrongly assumed was so obviously a bad method to judge someone's career trajectory that it couldn't have been the case.  So you absolutely had a rock solid basis based on a single game.  But is that a meaningful way to evaluate someone?  Let's focus on that.

(b)  Judging someone on a single game is [redacted first 5 adjectives] not ideal.  And the fact that the game you pull is way below average for his season but he still put up 28 and 10 might speak volumes.   That is like saying LeBron wasn't a superstar while he won 3 consecutive MVPs because he put up 16 points on 4 for 14 shooting along with 7 assist and 4 turnovers against Orlando.  You can't be a superstar with that kind of line, right?  

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201203180MIA.html

Like, if you want to judge a guy picking out a single game is almost so obviously a bad method that I'm sorry we have to even talk about it.  No player goes through a season and avoids bad games.  You have to look at the total record.

I guess next you are going to say that Trae isn't a budding superstar because he put up 19 points on 17 shots along with  2 assists and 7 turnovers?  Come on.  

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202003020ATL.html

 

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

And Guess what...They lost again to a Phoenix team last night without their 2 best players limited by foul trouble. LOL!  Super star my azz!!

Phoenix beat James Harden and the Rockets by 36 this season.  Maybe he isn't a star?

Come on.  

This is especially the case during this restart where things are thrown for a big loop with teams having their chemistry disrupted.  Is anyone shocked by this?  This weekend the Bucks and Lakers both lost to inferior teams.  Not sure if it happened before this season or not but upsets should not be real surprising right now.

This is one of the reasons the legitimacy of this as a playoffs for this season is up for debate.  

(I'd also point the finger sooner at 1-12 THJr and the rest of the single digit scoring Mavs  rather than 40 point (on 20 shots), 11 assist, 8 rebound Luka Doncic for that one.)

[Peoriabird]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

I guess if you are arguing that the right way to judge a player is on a single game rather than on a full season then we have to reframe this.

(a)  I'm sorry for saying you pulled that number out of your rear.  You based it on a single game which I wrongly assumed was so obviously a bad method to judge someone's career trajectory that it couldn't have been the case.  So you absolutely had a rock solid basis based on a single game.  But is that a meaningful way to evaluate someone?  Let's focus on that.

(b)  Judging someone on a single game is [redacted first 5 adjectives] not ideal.  And the fact that the game you pull is way below average for his season but he still put up 28 and 10 might speak volumes.   That is like saying LeBron wasn't a superstar while he won 3 consecutive MVPs because he put up 16 points on 4 for 14 shooting along with 7 assist and 4 turnovers against Orlando.  You can't be a superstar with that kind of line, right?  

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201203180MIA.html

Like, if you want to judge a guy picking out a single game is almost so obviously a bad method that I'm sorry we have to even talk about it.  No player goes through a season and avoids bad games.  You have to look at the total record.

I guess next you are going to say that Trae isn't a budding superstar because he put up 19 points on 17 shots along with  2 assists and 7 turnovers?  Come on.  

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202003020ATL.html

I think my statement was that I need to see more.  I think I've seen enough from Lebron to deem him a super star.

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

 

No, lol.  It is just so silly.  Like judging a guy's game performance based on how he shot free throws in warm ups.  

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I think my statement was that I need to see more.  I think I've seen enough from Lebron to deem him a super star.

I'm glad that being a 4x MVP gets him there for you.

If you said that you needed to see more and left that alone that would be fair.  But pointing out a single game?  That is weak sauce in terms of supporting that position.  

Every player has bad games and every team gets some bad losses.  The 72 win Bulls lost to the 21 win Raptors.  That season Jordan put up 17 points on 18 shots to go with 3 assists and 3 turnovers.  Who cares about either of those things?

The point for me is that both Luka and Trae look like blossoming superstars.  They haven't reached the pinnacle yet but they have shown every sign of being capable and are incredibly exciting young players.  Both Atlanta and Dallas should look back fondly on that trade with no regrets at this point.

If you want to tell me that you need to see a larger body of work to declare them as having achieved that level then I'm totally fine with that.  But what they've shown is extremely promising.

 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, AHF said:

Phoenix beat James Harden and the Rockets by 36 this season.  Maybe he isn't a star?

Come on.  

This is especially the case during this restart where things are thrown for a big loop with teams having their chemistry disrupted.  Is anyone shocked by this?  This weekend the Bucks and Lakers both lost to inferior teams.  Not sure if it happened before this season or not but upsets should not be real surprising right now.

This is one of the reasons the legitimacy of this as a playoffs for this season is up for debate.  

(I'd also point the finger sooner at 1-12 THJr and the rest of the single digit scoring Mavs  rather than 40 point (on 20 shots), 11 assist, 8 rebound Luka Doncic for that one.)

Someone's true identity has been revealed!  Luka defender alert!

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

The point for me is that both Luka and Trae look like blossoming superstars.  They haven't reached the pinnacle yet but they have shown every sign of being capable and are incredibly exciting young players.  Both Atlanta and Dallas should look back fondly on that trade with no regrets at this point.

So now its blossoming Superstars.  Before It was plain Superstar Luka!  Which is it?

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Someone's true identity has been revealed!  Luka defender alert!

I don't think its that.  @AHF is being objective about Luka's potential to be a superstar.  If you say those things about Luka, can argue the same things about Trae.

However, I believe you were talking about the way the media portrays Luka as a superstar already? Correct. 

You guys may be arguing different points.

Edited August 3, 2020 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

I don't think its that.  @AHF is being objective about Luka's potential to be a superstar.  If you say those things about Luka, can argue the same things about Trae.

However, I believe you were talking about the way the media portrays Luka as a superstar already? Correct. 

You guys may be arguing different points.

He outright said that Luka is a superstar.  Where is the confusion?

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

He outright said that Luka is a superstar.  Where is the confusion?

I said he and Trae were "young superstars."  This is what a young superstar looks like.  Great sometimes historic numbers on mediocre to bad teams.  

I don't think either Trae or Luka will be as good as MJ and LBJ.  But LBJ's Cavs were basically .500 his second year (42-40) while MJ's Bulls were in the same ballpark his second healthy season (40-42).  They put up great individual numbers while losing 40+ games.