Trae Young - The Man, The Viper, and The Prosecution aka The MVP aka Ice Trae

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

[RedDawg#8]

22 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

That’s cuz you ain’t ever seent me carry a squad. 

You been carrying us for years lol

[JayBirdHawk]

 

Although it's The Ringer, worth the read.

 

Snippets:

Trae’s greatest gift is his perception of illusion and how subtle sleights of hand affect others on the court. Some of the most effective pick-and-roll plays are the ones that never happen, the ones that Young rejects as soon as he sees the defense tilt to take away one perceived advantage. In a sense, Young has gamed the system: He is a seemingly inefficient player who paradoxically can power an elite offense in his sleep. Case in point: The Hawks have five players (Clint Capela, Onyeka Okongwu, Jalen Johnson, De’Andre Hunter, Bogdan Bogdanovic) who have logged at least 10 possessions as the roll man in the pick-and-roll this season. Together, they’ve averaged 1.3 points per possession, a rate of offense higher than either Giannis Antetokounmpo or Nikola Jokic in that play type.

 

Atlanta’s heliocentric offense, which has catered to Young from the second he was acquired, functions almost entirely off of his otherworldly touch, which flows as a gradient in the space between the half-court line and the rim. His reputation as a shooter gives him the space to slither into the lane for floaters, but the setup and movement patterns on his floater are almost identical to how he sets up a lob pass—never mind how Young’s advantage creation with vertical spacers like Capela and Okongwu opens things up on the perimeter. The Hawks offense works the way it does because Young, despite his size, is essentially Yu Darvish on the hardwood, creating a whole array of potential outcomes from a single release point.

 

Trae has yet to play with a star good enough to convince him that playing off the ball is a worthier venture than the efficient pick-and-roll attack he’s already established as a bread and butter. 

[RedDawg#8]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Although it's The Ringer, worth the read.

 

Snippets:

Trae’s greatest gift is his perception of illusion and how subtle sleights of hand affect others on the court. Some of the most effective pick-and-roll plays are the ones that never happen, the ones that Young rejects as soon as he sees the defense tilt to take away one perceived advantage. In a sense, Young has gamed the system: He is a seemingly inefficient player who paradoxically can power an elite offense in his sleep. Case in point: The Hawks have five players (Clint Capela, Onyeka Okongwu, Jalen Johnson, De’Andre Hunter, Bogdan Bogdanovic) who have logged at least 10 possessions as the roll man in the pick-and-roll this season. Together, they’ve averaged 1.3 points per possession, a rate of offense higher than either Giannis Antetokounmpo or Nikola Jokic in that play type.

 

Atlanta’s heliocentric offense, which has catered to Young from the second he was acquired, functions almost entirely off of his otherworldly touch, which flows as a gradient in the space between the half-court line and the rim. His reputation as a shooter gives him the space to slither into the lane for floaters, but the setup and movement patterns on his floater are almost identical to how he sets up a lob pass—never mind how Young’s advantage creation with vertical spacers like Capela and Okongwu opens things up on the perimeter. The Hawks offense works the way it does because Young, despite his size, is essentially Yu Darvish on the hardwood, creating a whole array of potential outcomes from a single release point.

 

Trae has yet to play with a star good enough to convince him that playing off the ball is a worthier venture than the efficient pick-and-roll attack he’s already established as a bread and butter. 

I mean…. tell us something new, those of us that support Trae have been saying this for years but the “he’s too little” crowd gets louder by the day.

Edited January 10 by RedDawg#8

[JayBirdHawk]

 

 

 

[Wretch]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

He small doe...

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

Imagine Trae catching Lebron James by the end of next season?

Just saying... It took Lebron 20 years to get to where he is...

 

[AHF]

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

Imagine Trae catching Lebron James by the end of next season?

Just saying... It took Lebron 20 years to get to where he is...

 

Eh.  The idea that Trae will have caught LeBron on one statistical measure doesn’t do much for me when thinking about their respective careers.  LeBron was winning 60+ per year with some teams that look like ours on paper.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

Eh.  The idea that Trae will have caught LeBron on one statistical measure doesn’t do much for me when thinking about their respective careers.  LeBron was winning 60+ per year with some teams that look like ours on paper.  

 

2008 - 09 Cleveland Cavaliers

 

Looks like they were a high level offensive team for this era, as well as a very good defensive team.  This is the roster of that squad.

 

You look at this team and say, how in the F did they win 66 games?  Then you really start to see what they did statistically and examine their roster.

This team had a HUGE frontline

• Lebron ( 6 - 9 )
• Varejao ( 6 -11 )
• Ilgauskas ( 7 - 3 ) . . . . Ben Wallace ( 6 - 9 )

 

They had high level 3 point shooters everywhere

• Mo Williams - 43.6%
• Wally Szczerbiak - 41.1%
• Sasha Pavlovic - 41%
• Delonte West - 39.9%
• Big Z - 38.5%
• Boobie Gibson - 38.2%

 

This team was the best 3 point defensive team in the league and they prevented 2nd chance points

 

When you talk about roster construction, they definitely constructed a team that

• Could defend you at all levels on the court
• Could prevent offensive rebounds
• Could shoot lights out from 3
• Maximized all of Lebron's talents

And with Lebron being one of the best offensive players in the league, they seemed to be unstoppable.  We all know what happened in Atlanta for Game 3.   Lebron started to hit long jumpers and put up a huge game, despite us putting up a good battle for most of the game.

 

 

I hate that we weren't 100%.  But it wouldn't have mattered.  When you got shooters all around Lebron, you can't really sell out and double him every time, which is why Mo Evans was content on giving him the jumper. 

Then you have a 7 - 3 center who can score in the post, the midrange, and take you out all the way to the 3 point line.  And on defense, they limit you to one and done.  Even Delonte West was an above average defensive player who could make life difficult for most guards.

 

Of course Trae couldn't duplicate what Lebron did back in those days, so you would have to have another frontcourt player who could maybe be a "poor man's Lebron" from a skill standpoint, while also having Trae still being a high scoring, high facilitation guy.

[AHF]

The next year was quite impressive as well with 61 wins with this roster:

Then a fairly similar team wins 19 games without LeBron:

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Could the Hawks assemble a team that looked like the 2009 Cavs that had

• A big man that could score at all 3 levels, but was really proficient from the outside
• An active guy at PF that could defend and rebound
• A versatile guy at SF that could do it all
• A deadeye 3 point shooting SG that could also defend

 

Would a roster that had these elements look somewhat like this:

 

PG - Trae

G - Lu Dort

SF - Scottie Barnes

PF - Jalen Johnson

C - Porzingis

 

I think if we had this starting 5 in Atlanta, we'd be a top 4 team in the East at least.   That's a team of scoring at all levels, that can also defend on the perimeter and the interior.  It's not a team that would be as long as the 2009 Cavs, but the versatility is definitely there.  That squad would be much better than what we're putting on the floor right now.

Dort at ( 6 - 3 ) plays much bigger than what he is.  And he's a muscular 215 lbs, about 20 lbs heavier than Dejounte. He doesn't need the ball in his hands. He's just ready to defend at all times, and he's always ready to shoot.

The Hawks, somehow, need to try to find that versatile offensive center ( preferably that has size ), while also hoping that Jalen Johnson can turn into Scottie Barnes.  That way if we did obtain a 4 that could also shoot and defend, it would round the team out.

Hawks really missed out by not trying to get Porzingis when he was possibly on the market.  He may have been the type of versatile big this team needed on both ends of the floor.  Boston understood what they needed to add, even though they had just been to the NBA Finals and EC Finals in back to back years.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

21 minutes ago, AHF said:

The next year was quite impressive as well with 61 wins with this roster:

Then a fairly similar team wins 19 games without LeBron:

The only thing that was similar, was the shooters still on the squad.  They lost all of their front court versatility and defense overall.

This squad was dead last in 3 point defensive %, letting people shoot a whopping 41% from 3.  And without Lebron and the big guys in the middle getting easy buckets, they were 29th in field goal %.  That's a recipe for total disaster.

The Lebron effect was real.  But I think even he knew that the squad, as constructed, wasn't going to be it going forward.  Once he, Wade, and Bosh colluded to play in Miami, it was an easy choice for him.  Team up with 2 other All-Stars, and leave this rag-tag Cleveland bunch behind.

[AHF]

40 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The only thing that was similar, was the shooters still on the squad.  They lost all of their front court versatility and defense overall.

This squad was dead last in 3 point defensive %, letting people shoot a whopping 41% from 3.  And without Lebron and the big guys in the middle getting easy buckets, they were 29th in field goal %.  That's a recipe for total disaster.

The Lebron effect was real.  But I think even he knew that the squad, as constructed, wasn't going to be it going forward.  Once he, Wade, and Bosh colluded to play in Miami, it was an easy choice for him.  Team up with 2 other All-Stars, and leave this rag-tag Cleveland bunch behind.

More than that was similar between the last squad with LeBron that won 61 games and the first without him that won 19.

In the backcourt, you had Mo Williams and Anthony Parker as the top starting guards and Daniel Gibson coming off the bench both seasons.

In the frontcourt, you had Jamison and JJ Hickson starting a lot of games along with Varejao coming off the bench.

 

For NBA teams, that is a fair amount of continuity other than the big elephant in the room taking his talents to Miami.  It wasn't all the same team but enough of the same team that if LeBron had still been there you would be expecting a very healthy win total or at least I would.

 

[Dnice]

 

[Jody23]

 

[JayBirdHawk]

Check out this NBA content!

 

https://www.nba.com/watch/video/nba-on-tnt-trae-young-stops-by-studio-talks-hoops-and-more

 

[JeffS17]

17 hours ago, Jody23 said:

 

Would like to see this stat removing the three pointers from it, still a good stat because it shows how durable Trae has been.  That's one thing I'll always give him major props for -- tons of teams have their best player hurt a third of every season.

[JeffS17]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Check out this NBA content!

 

https://www.nba.com/watch/video/nba-on-tnt-trae-young-stops-by-studio-talks-hoops-and-more

 

Thanks for posting.  This is one of Trae's best interview segments -- felt like he came off really well here.

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Thanks for posting.  This is one of Trae's best interview segments -- felt like he came off really well here.

It's crazy to me he's not more liked in this league.  His on court demeanor isn't any different than a lot of other guys who have fans everywhere. 

Of course he is #2 in fan voting so maybe he really is liked just not amongst the Northeast press. 

[kg01]

29 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

It's crazy to me he's not more liked in this league.  His on court demeanor isn't any different than a lot of other guys who have fans everywhere. 

Of course he is #2 in fan voting so maybe he really is liked just not amongst the Northeast press. 

I understand not being a fan.  I don't understand the absolute vitriol.

Honestly, I think that's people who don't actually watch and just assume guys' personalities based off how they hold their face?  

I mean ... of course I don't do that.  Everybody knows Alan Anderson was a jerk with his imminently punchable face.