[Winter 2020] Woj Rumor: Drummmmmnd to ATL talks happening

[EazyRoc]

54 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Plays defense.

Mic drop

Steven Adams is the definition of mediocre defender. 

[EazyRoc]

19 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

He just seems like he’s fit so well here though.

How ? Like in what ways ?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

Really surprises me how much people value floor spacing centers and those aren’t even the guys you need come playoff time .

Take Brooke Lopez for example aka splash mountain as they like to say in Milwaukee.

Brooke shot a respectable 36% from 3 last season on a good number of attempts for a role guy. Mind you Lopez is one of the best 3pt shooting bigs in the nba right now BUT made his name in the nba during his net years around the goal and wasn’t shooting 3s at that time however with new era and spacing blah blah BS he added to his game.

stay with me I’m about to bring it home....

when the playoffs hit last season...Brooke went from a very respectable 36% 3pt shooter which is actually great for a center to poor 29% and im familiar with a ton of buck fans and they were screaming about Bud not forcing Lopez closer to the goal which is funny cause that reminds me of another group of fans screaming similar stuff in the playoffs when bud was here.

lol but now everyone who’s a hawk fan or maybe about half just have to have a 3pt shooting center.

When the playoffs come around you want a guy like Drummond. You need someone that’s gon get messy with embiid, Gasol, Giannis at the rim. You want that size he has ...you not worried about that damn 3 ball cause it’s harder to make shots in the playoffs anyways! Defenses get tighter and refs allow more physicality. We will have change up the scheme slightly with Drummond added but that’s not really a big deal.

adding Drummond should allow our wings to play way closer to their opponents and for Collins to roam more for help defensive purposes cause he know Drummond got the goal locked down. More rebounds equal less fast break points. More offensive rebounds equal second chances for ice trae to reset the team or get another shot. Drummond adds a good amount of value that’s taken for granted and for the record he’s no slower than Marc Gasol actually faster .  

The stretch 5 is the most overvalued position in the NBA.  You are much better off with a guy who can score and defend around the rim, than a guy who can shoot the 3.

This season, there are only 18 centers in the NBA who even attempt 2 threes per game. 

• Of that 18, only 12 of those centers average 1 or more threes made per game.  
• Of those 12, only 2 of those centers average more than 2 threes made per game ( Towns - 3.6 makes . . and Porzingis - 2.2 makes )

The proponents of the "stretch 5" say that those guys open up the floor for everyone else.  Here's where it gets kind of silly though. It opens the floor up for guards to drive to the basket for layups.  But a lot of those guys don't shoot a higher percentage around the basket, than the centers that they're bringing out to the perimeter.

The real value of a "stretch big", lies at the PF spot. If Drummond is added to the Hawks, it's Collins that will see his game expand out to the 3 point line ( like it already has started to do ).   If kept around, a guy like Bruno could develop into a reserve 4/5 guy who could expand his range out to the 3 point line as well, if paired beside Drummond.

I think the real kicker for a Drummond deal is this.  The best PG he's ever played with, is Reggie Jackson.  So as someone said earlier, how much more efficient could a guy like Trae make Andre?

 

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Watchman]

32 minutes ago, Watchman said:

He fits about as well as Len, except he costs 4x as much.

Actually 6x+ as much.  

[JTB]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The stretch 5 is the most overvalued position in the NBA.  You are much better off with a guy who can score and defend around the rim, than a guy who can shoot the 3.

This season, there are only 18 centers in the NBA who even attempt 2 threes per game. 

• Of that 18, only 12 of those centers average 1 or more threes made per game.  
• Of those 12, only 2 of those centers average more than 2 threes made per game ( Towns - 3.6 makes . . and Porzingis - 2.2 makes )

The proponents of the "stretch 5" say that those guys open up the floor for everyone else.  Here's where it gets kind of silly though. It opens the floor up for guards to drive to the basket for layups.  But a lot of those guys don't shoot a higher percentage around the basket, than the centers that they're bringing out to the perimeter.

The real value of a "stretch big", lies at the PF spot. If Drummond is added to the Hawks, it's Collins that will see his game expand out to the 3 point line ( like it already has started to do ).   If kept around, a guy like Bruno could develop into a reserve 4/5 guy who could expand his range out to the 3 point line as well, if paired beside Drummond.

I think the real kicker for a Drummond deal is this.  The best PG he's ever played with, is Reggie Jackson.  So as someone said earlier, how much more efficient could a guy like Trae make Andre?

 

 

Excellent write up ....and I don’t need to fact check it cause I know it’s all true .

stretch 5s are overrated !

[Watchman]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The stretch 5 is the most overvalued position in the NBA.  You are much better off with a guy who can score and defend around the rim, than a guy who can shoot the 3.

This season, there are only 18 centers in the NBA who even attempt 2 threes per game. 

• Of that 18, only 12 of those centers average 1 or more threes made per game.  
• Of those 12, only 2 of those centers average more than 2 threes made per game ( Towns - 3.6 makes . . and Porzingis - 2.2 makes )

The proponents of the "stretch 5" say that those guys open up the floor for everyone else.  Here's where it gets kind of silly though. It opens the floor up for guards to drive to the basket for layups.  But a lot of those guys don't shoot a higher percentage around the basket, than the centers that they're bringing out to the perimeter.

The real value of a "stretch big", lies at the PF spot. If Drummond is added to the Hawks, it's Collins that will see his game expand out to the 3 point line ( like it already has started to do ).   If kept around, a guy like Bruno could develop into a reserve 4/5 guy who could expand his range out to the 3 point line as well, if paired beside Drummond.

I think the real kicker for a Drummond deal is this.  The best PG he's ever played with, is Reggie Jackson.  So as someone said earlier, how much more efficient could a guy like Trae make Andre?

 

 

To me, the biggest factor is that we can keep Collins, and probably Len for the stretch 5 fans, and probably still get Drummond, without giving up more than bad contracts and maybe a mid first round pick.  We get killed on the boards every game.  Drummond makes a big difference there.

[NBASupes]

A lot of foolishness around Drummond to the point where I have zero interest in him. 

 

He is not worth the Brooklyn pick.

Detroit fans can keep him. 

If we want him, go get him in free agency.

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I understand wanting to get better but I really think we should stop and think before pulling a trade like this. I mean things didn’t go the way we had planned with the suspension and injuries. We expected time to develop the kids.

It is what it is right now so why are we gonna try and play ourselves out of a potential top 5 pick. Yes, I understand the lottery odds but a few % here and there might effect the outcome.
 

With Drummond we could end up being the 10th worst team in the lottery vs top 3. Just saying we here now, let’s make the most of it.

I think we should stick with the plan and see it out the way we drew it up. Patience is the key. Tough times won’t last for too much longer. No bandaid 🩹 please.

 

It's foolish to land Andre unless the price is right. Detroit can keep him like we did with Millsap and Horford

[Wretch]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The Hawks should be using their 1st round picks to trade for talent, not hope to keep drafting in the late lottery or mid 1st rounds, hoping to find talent.

You play the Lottery to find a potential Hall of Fame talent. We got very lucky and found on our very first trip into the Lottery.  And we already have his 2nd option compliment, who exhibits All-Star potential.

It is now time to start stacking this team with vets, even marginal vets, that know how to play the game.  That way, in 2021 when the "big dogs" become available, you can sell to them that you have:

• A top 15 player in the league in Young, that possibly has Hall of Fame potential, and will get you the ball
• A top 25 player in the league in Collins, that has All-Star potential
• A top 30 player in ( Drummond ), that also has All-Star potential
• Good complimentary young talent that can be key cogs off the bench, or solid starters

That way, when you try to sell yourself to a player like a Giannis or an Olidipo, you can legit say that THEY may be the final piece to a championship caliber team in Atlanta.

Current . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Future

PG - Young . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Young

G - Huerter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Olidipo

F - Hunter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Giannis / Kawhi . . . . . ( only 1 of the 2 may be available )

PF - Collins . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Collins

C - Bruno/Len/Jones . . . . . .  Davis / Drummond . . . . . ( Drummond will be far easier to trade for, than to sign in free agency )

 

* NOTE: Only 2 of the 5 guys in red could be added to the team in 2021. More than likely, only 1 will be added.

 

All of this talk about not rushing the process is unfounded.  If you're content to keep the team young, you're much more likely to end up still terrible like the Phoenix Suns or Sacramento Kings in year 4 - 6, than if you actually try to acquire elite talent to put around your superstar.

@Spud2nique, I almost always agree with you 100%... So much so that sometimes I wonder if I'm actually suffering from some kind of multiple personality disorder. lol This time though, I'm in a different camp. 

@TheNorthCydeRises You are taking the words right out of my mouth.  The process has been accelerated.  We got the guy, now we need to get the team around him.  Sooner than later.  I'm less worried about a top pick and FAR more concerned about the culture.  Which is ironic considering how worried the Squawk usually is about a "losing culture" and the effect it has on young players...  Now is the time to have that kind of mindset. 

Patience is key when all you are developing young talent, but Trae complicates things.  He's not just a talent, he's up there walking among the elites.  I mean, do people not realize this cat is very likely going to be starting the AS game in his second season?  You don't have the luxury of slowly grooming a team for talent like that.

We don't need band-aid/knee-jerky moves, but we can't continue to be the laughing-stock of the league.  Especially with our guy out here flexing and calling game and ish... Drummond is a low risk move.  I like it because it allows us to evaluate him for the remainder of the season as opposed to gambling long term BIG MONEY on him.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Wretch

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, Wretch said:

Patience is key when all you are developing young talent, but Trae complicates things.  He's not just a talent, he up there walking among the elites.  I mean, do people not realize this cat is very likely going to be starting the AS game in his second season?  You don't have the luxury of slowly grooming a team for talent like that.

We don't need band-aid/knee-jerky moves, but we can't continue to be the laughing-stock of the league.  Especially with our guy out here flexing and calling game and ish... Drummond is a low risk move.  I like it because it allows us to evaluate him for the remainder of the season as opposed to gambling long term BIG MONEY on him.

That does make a lot of sense. You are right about Trae being an elite and needing an elite to go along with him at this stage. 
 

It is a low risk move as well. I guess the only real downfall is we are in the #1 position for most lotto balls, if Drummond comes on, we slide to 7-10 imo. I guess though that would show us like you said whether the experiment was a good one or not for that long term deal.

It’s definitely not a no brained situation either way. I hope we do the right thing.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, EazyRoc said:

How ? Like in what ways ?

I think he covers well for others who aren’t the best defenders on the team like us with Trae. Adams is just a tough as nails good team defender and player overall who spreads nice team chemistry. He’s durable usually doesn’t miss a game if he can help it. We need toughness, that’s him.

[Spud2nique]

22 minutes ago, Wretch said:

@Spud2nique, I almost always agree with you 100%... So much so that sometimes I wonder if I'm actually suffering from some kind of multiple personality disorder. lol This time though, I'm in a different camp.

Burner brothers? That’s what they’ll call us!  

[cam1218]

A lot of good debate going on here. Mark me in the I hope we do it assuming we don’t give up too much. See how he fits and decide on him later. If he doesn’t fit we can move on, and that is much better than signing him as a FA and being stuck with him. Also, it probably adds a boost of morale to our team, mainly Trae. 

[Spud2nique]

Pro Drummond notes :

In the last 6 years, he’s missed 9 games. That’s pretty incredible for a big. (Also a negative here because even though he’s 26, he’s had enough games and minutes for a 28-29 year old, wear n tera could come but he’s shown he’s mad strong ).

Going on 3rd year of being the NBA’s rebounding champ roughly 16 per a night.

 

Also, as someone mentioned before he’s never played with anyone even close to Trae’s talent level. You would be putting the best passer and extreme range shooters in Trae with the best rebounder in the game. Lethal 1-5 punch .

He’s averaging about 2 blocks and 2 steals which is insane for a center (steals) but why are his turnovers at a career high 3.6 this year? Seems awfully high for a center.

 

[JTB]

14 minutes ago, cam1218 said:

A lot of good debate going on here. Mark me in the I hope we do it assuming we don’t give up too much. See how he fits and decide on him later. If he doesn’t fit we can move on, and that is much better than signing him as a FA and being stuck with him. Also, it probably adds a boost of morale to our team, mainly Trae. 

Great points !

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

Great points !

@JTB something weird is going on..between yourself, Wretch, North, Easy and all the pro Drumms...ur starting to turn me... ...

 

Kg needs to play advocate here...bring me back. This 1/5 Trae being the best passer and Drumm the best boarder getting to me.  

@kg01 Helllllpppp they pullin me.. @NBASupes @JayBirdHawk

[Wretch]

15 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Pro Drummond notes :

In the last 6 years, he’s missed 9 games. That’s pretty incredible for a big. (Also a negative here because even though he’s 26, he’s had enough games and minutes for a 28-29 year old, wear n tera could come but he’s shown he’s mad strong ).

Going on 3rd year of being the NBA’s rebounding champ roughly 16 per a night.

 

Also, as someone mentioned before he’s never played with anyone even close to Trae’s talent level. You would be putting the best passer and extreme range shooters in Trae with the best rebounder in the game. Lethal 1-5 punch .

He’s averaging about 2 blocks and 2 steals which is insane for a center (steals) but why are his turnovers at a career high 3.6 this year? Seems awfully high for a center.

 

Something I read, maybe it's a link on this thread?  ...anyway, there's some concerns about him...um...experimenting with stuff he ain't supposed to be doing. 

Full disclosure though...  I'm a sucker for cats like Mutombo, Oakley, and Rodman that rebound, defend, and block shots.  Give me a dude that'll put up 0 pts, 2 blocks, and 17 rebounds all day long. lol  So, I can't lie, I like what Drummond does.  I like the Trae/Drummond implications as much as I dig the Drummond/Collins/Hunter implications.  Rebounds would be on back-order for anybody not wearing a Hawks uni. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Wretch

[cam1218]

20 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Pro Drummond notes :

In the last 6 years, he’s missed 9 games. That’s pretty incredible for a big. (Also a negative here because even though he’s 26, he’s had enough games and minutes for a 28-29 year old, wear n tera could come but he’s shown he’s mad strong ).

Going on 3rd year of being the NBA’s rebounding champ roughly 16 per a night.

 

Also, as someone mentioned before he’s never played with anyone even close to Trae’s talent level. You would be putting the best passer and extreme range shooters in Trae with the best rebounder in the game. Lethal 1-5 punch .

He’s averaging about 2 blocks and 2 steals which is insane for a center (steals) but why are his turnovers at a career high 3.6 this year? Seems awfully high for a center.

 

Just looking at his basic stats, he’s averaging a career high in shots (not by much) and close to three assists a game. His assists are at 2.6, his career high is 3, and he’s usually around 1 per game. Maybe they are running more of the offense through him and that is leading to turnovers?

[REHawksFan]

25 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Pro Drummond notes :

In the last 6 years, he’s missed 9 games. That’s pretty incredible for a big. (Also a negative here because even though he’s 26, he’s had enough games and minutes for a 28-29 year old, wear n tera could come but he’s shown he’s mad strong ).

Going on 3rd year of being the NBA’s rebounding champ roughly 16 per a night.

 

Also, as someone mentioned before he’s never played with anyone even close to Trae’s talent level. You would be putting the best passer and extreme range shooters in Trae with the best rebounder in the game. Lethal 1-5 punch .

He’s averaging about 2 blocks and 2 steals which is insane for a center (steals) but why are his turnovers at a career high 3.6 this year? Seems awfully high for a center.

 

That's what I'm talking about Spudzie. If I didn't know better I'd say you were on board!!

[REHawksFan]

Also, as much as I'd love to see Drummond with Trae, it's also exciting that we could get him while keeping JC.  That's a pretty strong "big 3" to grow into.