[Winter 2020] Woj Rumor: Drummmmmnd to ATL talks happening

[sturt]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

And what source is this? I just think it’s important to know once source before leaking it out. Is the source credible?...

 

  game rec game..

[sturt]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Not so....Cavs, Grizz, Hornets, Pels, Knicks.

So, standing corrected, forget everything I just said.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, sturt said:

Siap... didn't know this...

 

 

Then there's this....5 minutes later.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

Great? Wanna see my Yahoo profile? 

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, sturt said:

I'm listening... but I've never understood him to have the rep as a poor defender. Actually, quite the opposite. Educate me (...seriously, not disputing or just playing).

Here's some light reading that could help you educate yourself.  You're welcome....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pistonpowered.com/2018/08/25/detroit-pistons-good-bad-ugly-andre-drummond/amp/

Long story long, he's had effort issues.  He typically is the biggest, most athletic guy on the court which would lead you to believe he's a dpoy candidate every year.  But, other than rebounding, he's not a huge 'factor' out there.

It's maddening for piston fans and, for some reason, most of us are eager to sign up for it.

The #1 draw is he's better than what we got.  But is that really an accomplishment?

[Spud2nique]

I don’t necessarily want Drum but at the same time I don’t want the Mavs or Celts to get him. Ugh ...damn maybe we should get him  

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

The #1 draw is he's better than what we got.  But is that really an accomplishment?

Do we get him so any green team won’t. Wait, Mavs are still green right? I can stomach seeing Luka getting 2nd looks from Drum O boards, I’d rather that be Trae  

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Here's some light reading that could help you educate yourself.  You're welcome....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pistonpowered.com/2018/08/25/detroit-pistons-good-bad-ugly-andre-drummond/amp/

Long story long, he's had effort issues.  He typically is the biggest, most athletic guy on the court which would lead you to believe he's a dpoy candidate every year.  But, other than rebounding, he's not a huge 'factor' out there.

It's maddening for piston fans and, for some reason, most of us are eager to sign up for it.

The #1 draw is he's better than what we got.  But is that really an accomplishment?

A lot of Trae first fans that really don't care about the team long term. It's all about winning and making Trae look good.

My issue is trading any legit future assets for someone who doesn't make us a winner is bothersome

Edited January 4, 2020 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

 

I hope this is not the case.

Quote

If the Hawks have serious interest in trading for Drummond, that would seem to indicate panic over the team’s underwhelming performance this season. They were under no illusions that the team would be good this season, and while Trae Young’s ascension into All-Star territory has slightly recalibrated their timeline and expectations, the Hawks would seem to have little incentive to make a desperate attempt at improving over the final 48 games of the season.

 

I agree.

Quote

Atlanta would be wise to upgrade what has been the worst center rotation in the NBA, but should also be cautious of sacrificing too much for someone who may not move the needle for the team’s long-term trajectory. Mortgaging the future – even a small part of it – and limiting long-term flexibility for the payoff of a few additional wins this season seems imprudent, and antithetical to Travis Schlenk’s vision for the franchise. Drummond, who makes $27.1 million this season, is on an expiring contract; trading anything of consequence for him is a risk unto itself.

Drummond would immediately become the Hawks’ best center by a wide margin – though that is damning with the faintest possible praise – and help fortify two of their greatest areas of weakness. He’s an elite rebounder, dependable vertical threat in the pick-and-roll, and a disruptive defender both at the rim and in passing lanes. He has grown into an adequate passer out of the post and in tight interior spaces. The Hawks, however, should be wary of surrendering too much in a deal for the 26-year-old. Drummond will likely command a max or near-max contract next summer (he has a $28.6 million player option for next season that he is reportedly unlikely to exercise) and it’s unclear whether he’ll live up to that sort of commitment from the Hawks, Pistons, or any other team that pays him.

 

Yep!

Quote

Center is the easiest position in the NBA at which to find replacement-level value (or better) for cheap; save for the league’s elite big men, few are worth hefty contracts, and there is a point at which teams are simply better off scouring the market for players on more team-friendly deals. Trading for a limited big man already in his prime and due for a big contract feels misguided on Atlanta’s part. He would undoubtedly help the Hawks in some of their weakest areas and has more worth to Atlanta than he would to most other teams because of that. But the Hawks shouldn’t overvalue him simply because of their incumbent centers’ ineffectiveness. 

 

[sturt]

10 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Here's some light reading that could help you educate yourself.  You're welcome....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/pistonpowered.com/2018/08/25/detroit-pistons-good-bad-ugly-andre-drummond/amp/

Long story long, he's had effort issues.  He typically is the biggest, most athletic guy on the court which would lead you to believe he's a dpoy candidate every year.  But, other than rebounding, he's not a huge 'factor' out there.

It's maddening for piston fans and, for some reason, most of us are eager to sign up for it.

The #1 draw is he's better than what we got.  But is that really an accomplishment?

I'm intrigued, but just as a standing rule, I don't take Brad Rowland or anyone like him to be the voice of reason on any given Hawks player... nor would I take this blogger, though I welcome his perspective.

Need more. If that's all you got, yeah, I suppose I'll have to educate myself after all. :S

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, sturt said:

Need more. If that's all you got, yeah, I suppose I'll have to educate myself after all. :S

@kg01 I believe you are looking for the gif of that penguin who whacks the other in the back of the head as he leaves....

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, sturt said:

I'm intrigued, but just as a standing rule, I don't take Brad Rowland or anyone like him to be the voice of reason on any given Hawks player... nor would I take this blogger, though I welcome his perspective.

Need more. If that's all you got, yeah, I suppose I'll have to educate myself after all. :S

 

[Wretch]

My thoughts after thumbing through all the pages here:

On the fit:
I don't hate this deal.  Drummond is a nice fit.  Nobody can convince me otherwise.  Any productive rim protector, rebounder, 7-foot lob target is an upgrade, but this is an elite rebounder.  Admittedly, I'm a sucker for it.  Regardless of whether or not he'd be an overall net negative, his presence on the glass is undeniable.  He's tough, shows passion, and is a legit shot blocker.  That's more than a serviceable upgrade.

Offensively, he's a good compliment to the shooters that we have.  Does every guy on the floor have to be capable of shooting the 3?  Ya'll will have to educate me on his passing...because I know almost nothing about how well he passes out of the post.  Though, even if he's not the greatest at it, he seems to be more than capable of putting it on the floor and finishing.  Overall, he's an intriguing fit to me.

On Drummond's shortcomings:
We wouldn't be having this conversation 10-15 years ago.  It's the "stretch big" that's putting a cloud over the deal.  Is it honestly that this kind of player is a relic and honestly less impactful?  Or is it just recency bias fueled by the desire of today's young bigs to be more active with the ball?  Has the game fundamentally changed...or is it just that players prefer the current play style: Bigs handling the ball?  The emphasis on the 3?

I know the metrics suggest that perimeter shooting is key now, but is it because they're just launching more 3's?  This is a whole other conversation that I've had hours of debate in person with my peoples.  Not really going to derail things here with my opinion...but in a nutshell, I'm not inclined to believe that the throwback big man is simply an ineffectual relic.  It's sexy to buy into it, but I think it's more of a trend than an actual change to the game's mechanics.  As it pertains to the OT, I think he sets up a decent traditional inside/out game.  I'd like to see how a Trae/Collins/Drummond trio works.

On the Adams alternative:
Adams is not a better player.  HOWEVER, he's just as good a fit.  I *love* his attitude and sometimes that's worth more than a talent trade off.  He'd be a great locker room presence and the kind of on court attitude that would help settle the kids down.  We don't need a killer at the 5 and I think he's perfect.  He's not as productive as Drummond, but he checks every box we need.  I wouldn't be upset bringing either guy in, though neither is worth mortgaging the farm on.

On Ressler's involvement:
FOH.  Hire basketball people and let them do their jobs man.  Put pressure on them when the time is right.  THE TIME IS NOT RIGHT TO BE PUTTING EXPECTATIONS ON THIS TEAM.  That is how you wreck a rebuild.  I want him to stop and let his employees do their f'n jobs.  If you can't tell, I'm very much opinionated on meddling.

On the Brooklyn pick:
Ship that shyte.    I don't salivate or middling 1st rounders like many do.  They are trade fodder in my eyes and this is a trade that I'd fire a middling 1st rounder at and not blink.  Taking a flyer on Drummond is worth that pick.  The only way I  don't deal it is if we believe it'd be better served in a stronger deal.

On sabotaging our draft position:
This one's a little more tricky for me.  I really don't care about our draft pick this year. I watch every game praying for a win.  Right now, I'd take a playoff berth over a top 3 pick.  I don't know if everyone realizes it, but Trae accelerates the process.  This is good and bad, but ultimately...we can't afford to squander the gem that we've found.  Bringing Drummond in is worth the risk of losing draft position.  We don't need another baby Hawk and that pick is better served as the setup for a blockbuster.  I'd rather package it and one or more of our young guys to make one of those "holy sh!t" trades.

On the young guys:
They should be off the table in any deal that doesn't shake the ground.  I hope we're not even discussing it.  Not even Cam (who I am very much losing faith in).  They can have Jabari and they can have that BKN pick.  Hell, I might even throw in a side of 2nd round picks.  I'm not interested in dealing any of our young guys for Drummond or Adams.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

 

OMG....I can't stop laughing. I don't ever remember seeing this before.

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, Wretch said:

My thoughts after thumbing through all the pages here:

On the fit:
I don't hate this deal.  Drummond is a nice fit.  Nobody can convince me otherwise.  Any productive rim protector, rebounder, 7-foot lob target is an upgrade, but this is an elite rebounder.  Admittedly, I'm a sucker for it.  Regardless of whether or not he'd be an overall net negative, his presence on the glass is undeniable.  He's tough, shows passion, and is a legit shot blocker.  That's more than a serviceable upgrade.

Offensively, he's a good compliment to the shooters that we have.  Does every guy on the floor have to be capable of shooting the 3?  Ya'll will have to educate me on his passing...because I know almost nothing about how well he passes out of the post.  Though, even if he's not the greatest at it, he seems to be more than capable of putting it on the floor and finishing.  Overall, he's an intriguing fit to me.

On Drummond's shortcomings:
We wouldn't be having this conversation 10-15 years ago.  It's the "stretch big" that's putting a cloud over the deal.  Is it honestly that this kind of player is a relic and honestly less impactful?  Or is it just recency bias fueled by the desire of today's young bigs to be more active with the ball?  Has the game fundamentally changed...or is it just that players prefer the current play style: Bigs handling the ball?  The emphasis on the 3?

I know the metrics suggest that perimeter shooting is key now, but is it because they're just launching more 3's?  This is a whole other conversation that I've had hours of debate in person with my peoples.  Not really going to derail things here with my opinion...but in a nutshell, I'm not inclined to believe that the throwback big man is simply an ineffectual relic.  It's sexy to buy into it, but I think it's more of a trend than an actual change to the game's mechanics.  As it pertains to the OT, I think he sets up a decent traditional inside/out game.  I'd like to see how a Trae/Collins/Drummond trio works.

On the Adams alternative:
Adams is not a better player.  HOWEVER, he's just as good a fit.  I *love* his attitude and sometimes that's worth more than a talent trade off.  He'd be a great locker room presence and the kind of on court attitude that would help settle the kids down.  We don't need a killer at the 5 and I think he's perfect.  He's not as productive as Drummond, but he checks every box we need.  I wouldn't be upset bringing either guy in, though neither is worth mortgaging the farm on.

On Ressler's involvement:
FOH.  Hire basketball people and let them do their jobs man.  Put pressure on them when the time is right.  THE TIME IS NOT RIGHT TO BE PUTTING EXPECTATIONS ON THIS TEAM.  That is how you wreck a rebuild.  I want him to stop and let his employees do their f'n jobs.  If you can't tell, I'm very much opinionated on meddling.

On the Brooklyn pick:
Ship that shyte.    I don't salivate or middling 1st rounders like many do.  They are trade fodder in my eyes and this is a trade that I'd fire a middling 1st rounder at and not blink.  Taking a flyer on Drummond is worth that pick.  The only way I  don't deal it is if we believe it'd be better served in a stronger deal.

On sabotaging our draft position:
This one's a little more tricky for me.  I really don't care about our draft pick this year. I watch every game praying for a win.  Right now, I'd take a playoff berth over a top 3 pick.  I don't know if everyone realizes it, but Trae accelerates the process.  This is good and bad, but ultimately...we can't afford to squander the gem that we've found.  Bringing Drummond in is worth the risk of losing draft position.  We don't need another baby Hawk and that pick is better served as the setup for a blockbuster.  I'd rather package it and one or more of our young guys to make one of those "holy sh!t" trades.

On the young guys:
They should be off the table in any deal that doesn't shake the ground.  I hope we're not even discussing it.  Not even Cam (who I am very much losing faith in).  They can have Jabari and they can have that BKN pick.  Hell, I might even throw in a side of 2nd round picks.  I'm not interested in dealing any of our young guys for Drummond or Adams.

Preach on, Deacon Wretch.

[Vol4ever]

There is no one period in the upcoming draft that is close to his talent and impact on our team.  He is 26 years old.  Stretch 5s are just the sexy thing now.  

Case closed.  We will see how this goes.  

[Spud2nique]

51 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

OMG....I can't stop laughing. I don't ever remember seeing this before.

Oldie but goodie  

[Spud2nique]

39 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Preach on, Deacon Wretch.

Wretch comes like...enters squawk like once in a while but when he brings it he really brings it. It’s like a grand slam every time. I dig! Wretch 4 president!

[JayBirdHawk]

An 'Outsiders' (not Hawks) view of Drummonds value:

Quote

In the case of a trade with the Hawks, a few scenarios make sense and all accomplish the same thing. The expiring contract of Chandler Parsons, who is making $25 million this year, and the top-14-protected pick that Atlanta possesses from the Nets would suffice. It guarantees that Detroit will still have significant money coming off the books this summer while accumulating another draft pick in the process. Further, Parsons and Griffin are very good friends — not that it should factor in the minds of decision-makers.

Another deal that makes sense for the Pistons would be taking on the expiring contracts of Alex Len and Allen Crabbe, along with the aforementioned draft pick. Len and Crabbe, together, make roughly $23 million, which is $4 million short of Drummond’s $27 million annual salary. Again, that accomplishes the same goal of shedding money this summer while acquiring an asset.

Whether Detroit simply wants to separate from Drummond or to change the direction of the franchise in total, the Pistons are best off getting something in return rather than having the center walk this summer for nothing. That being the case, trading Drummond now makes sense at every turn for the Pistons.

The fact that the dialogue between Detroit and Atlanta has leaked all but ensures that Drummond will be traded before the deadline. It might not be to the Hawks, though that looks likely, but the spewing of the information publicly presents an uncomfortable dynamic for the Pistons and for Drummond if something isn’t finalized sooner rather than later.

I'd prefer the Parsons option.

[High5]

It's funny reading both sides of this trade. Atlanta fans are offering 2nd round picks and Detroit fans are willing to accept the Brooklyn pick + Cam.