Ask Supes

[JTB]

Alright I got another one @NBASupes...maybe you will know the answer to this , maybe not. I will try to explain it best I can!

Is Travis and the front office considering the elites already established in the east while considering these moves to build out the team? ....Asking since the current young elites in the east will still be elites even when our young guys grow up and are in years 4-5.

If I can clarify a bit more....

Giannis for example is only 24 or 25 and he’s possibly getting ready to be a back to back mvp on a very good team. It may sound crazy as F**k to even bring a player like Giannis caliber up since we are no where near to even being a average team but since a guy like Giannis is still so young, him and embiid and other young East superstars are going to be around the east for a loooonnngggg time and they’ll still be there when our guys are ready to take big steps....

......so with the above said is Travis and company keeping in mind (during these possible trade negotiations) of the current elites in the east we will likely run into once we are ready to really compete? 
 

(it’s a interesting question because I see a team like the Celtics who probably could get to the championship but there’s just no way in hell they are equipped to even slow down a big like Giannis or even embiid...Ainge is good but he completely ignored the big man position in my opinion....I am hoping Schlenk has full intentions to be as complete as possible at all positions)

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, JTB said:

Alright I got another one @NBASupes...maybe you will know the answer to this , maybe not. I will try to explain it best I can!

Is Travis and the front office considering the elites already established in the east while considering these moves to build out the team? ....Asking since the current young elites in the east will still be elites even when our young guys grow up and are in years 4-5.

If I can clarify a bit more....

Giannis for example is only 24 or 25 and he’s possibly getting ready to be a back to back mvp on a very good team. It may sound crazy as F**k to even bring a player like Giannis caliber up since we are no where near to even being a average team but since a guy like Giannis is still so young, him and embiid and other young East superstars are going to be around the east for a loooonnngggg time and they’ll still be there when our guys are ready to take big steps....

......so with the above said is Travis and company keeping in mind (during these possible trade negotiations) of the current elites in the east we will likely run into once we are ready to really compete? 
 

(it’s a interesting question because I see a team like the Celtics who probably could get to the championship but there’s just no way in hell they are equipped to even slow down a big like Giannis or even embiid...Ainge is good but he completely ignored the big man position in my opinion....I am hoping Schlenk has full intentions to be as complete as possible at all positions)

There is a feeling that all of the teams in the east could be beat by many. Not sure if Travis is making his decision on that. I am sure it has more to do with #11

[JayBirdHawk]

41 minutes ago, JTB said:

Alright I got another one @NBASupes...maybe you will know the answer to this , maybe not. I will try to explain it best I can!

Is Travis and the front office considering the elites already established in the east while considering these moves to build out the team? ....Asking since the current young elites in the east will still be elites even when our young guys grow up and are in years 4-5.

If I can clarify a bit more....

Giannis for example is only 24 or 25 and he’s possibly getting ready to be a back to back mvp on a very good team. It may sound crazy as F**k to even bring a player like Giannis caliber up since we are no where near to even being a average team but since a guy like Giannis is still so young, him and embiid and other young East superstars are going to be around the east for a loooonnngggg time and they’ll still be there when our guys are ready to take big steps....

......so with the above said is Travis and company keeping in mind (during these possible trade negotiations) of the current elites in the east we will likely run into once we are ready to really compete? 
 

(it’s a interesting question because I see a team like the Celtics who probably could get to the championship but there’s just no way in hell they are equipped to even slow down a big like Giannis or even embiid...Ainge is good but he completely ignored the big man position in my opinion....I am hoping Schlenk has full intentions to be as complete as possible at all positions)

Those teams have their star players in Embiid and Giannis, Boston has Tatum and Brown playing well, Heat with Butler, Indy is a 'Sum of their parts team' but I don't think any of these teams are upbeatable like most of the LBJ Cavs years.

[JTB]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Those teams have their star players in Embiid and Giannis, Boston has Tatum and Brown playing well, Heat with Butler, Indy is a 'Sum of their parts team' but I don't think any of these teams are upbeatable like most of the LBJ Cavs years.

Maybe you’re right ...I think Giannis and embiid forces East teams to have quality big men however ...or your not beating those teams when it comes the post season (well not Giannis...embiid should be on that kind of level but that’s another story)...that is my opinion of course 

Then there’s also more good East centers coming up in bam and sabonis starting to make their names! so i just think (again my opinion) when you’re building a team to really compete in the EAST you have to consider that the center position is pretty damn good...very good on the top 4-6 teams outside of the Celtics while most being young not even in the so called prime ages (27-32) and I don’t think you can just toss any ol center out there in the east like the warriors did in the west during their championship years .

I fear Schlenk coming from golden state just don’t truly value the 5 position very much. 
 

.........as far as the east perimeter stars go...Tatum, brown, Butler...yeah I’m not so much worried about those guys lol. I mean we got trae and he’s a handful alone ! When reddish or hunter get it going and hopefully live up to the hype we are going to be able to battle evenly or have an advantage on the perimeter one day. Hopefully anyways .

[NBASupes]

If you notice, the east best teams are loaded with great benches. If you notice, all of the best worse teams are too in the east like Washington and Detroit. 

The Hawks want to start winning games and building a great team, they gotta make that bench a lot better outside of Len and Parker. 

Edited January 14, 2020 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

27 minutes ago, JTB said:

I fear Schlenk coming from golden state just don’t truly value the 5 position very much. 

I don't necessarily agree with this, they did trade for Bogut.  They had Marreese Speights as their backup C when they won their 1st championship.

Then they had stop gaps like Zaza and Javale - they won on the strengths of their best players - guards and wings. When you have that you need a rough and tumble center to do the dirty work that doesn't show up in your stat sheets - set screens, defend in the PnR and at the rim and rebound. Be a toughy.

Bam is 6'-9", Sabonis is 6'-11" - what they are is tough...we need toughness at that position.  Having good to great players on the wings makes life easier for Centers like Bam and Sabonis, they just do what they do. They aren't carrying offensive loads.

[kg01]

23 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If you notice, the east best teams are loaded with great benches. If you notice, all of the best worse teams are too in the east like Washington and Detroit. 

The Hawks want to start winning games and building a great team, they gotta make that bench a lot better outside of Len and that's it 'cause Parker sux too. 

And kg with the .. assist.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If you notice, the east best teams are loaded with great benches. If you notice, all of the best worse teams are too in the east like Washington and Detroit. 

The Hawks want to start winning games and building a great team, they gotta make that bench a lot better outside of Len and Parker. 

The good thing about bench depth is that is the single easiest thing to build through FA.  Unless you are NY or LA and/or you can convince a couple superstars to team up then you aren't getting a star through FA.  Certainly, the Hawks aren't.  Starting level talent can be tough to find at a reasonable price in FA.  But productive bench players can frequently be found for an affordable price -- especially if you can show you are a team on the rise.  (That latter point won't apply this offseason but may the next.)

I guarantee we could take less than $40M and put together an outstanding bench from actual contracts guys signed last offseason.

Here is an example of guys signed at 25% above where they landed (and where we signed him for Parker):

PG TJ McConnell - 2 years $7M + 25% =  $8.75M; $4.375M salary for 2019-20

SG Delon Wright - 3 years $28M + 25% = $35M; $11.84M salary for 2019-20

SF Danuel House - 3 years $11.15M + 25% = $13.94M; $4.425M salary for 2019-20

PF Jabari Parker - 2 years $13M; $6.5M salary for 2019-20

C Thomas Bryant - 3 years $25M + 25% = $31.25M; $9.92M salary for 2019-20

= total 2019-20 salary of $37M

 

That lineup would destroy our current bench and have us in the playoffs this season.

[JayBirdHawk]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

The good thing about bench depth is that is the single easiest thing to build through FA.  Unless you are NY or LA and/or you can convince a couple superstars to team up then you aren't getting a star through FA.  Certainly, the Hawks aren't.  Starting level talent can be tough to find at a reasonable price in FA.  But productive bench players can frequently be found for an affordable price -- especially if you can show you are a team on the rise.  (That latter point won't apply this offseason but may the next.)

I guarantee we could take less than $40M and put together an outstanding bench from actual contracts guys signed last offseason.

Here is an example of guys signed at 25% above where they landed (and where we signed him for Parker):

PG TJ McConnell - 2 years $7M + 25% =  $8.75M; $4.375M salary for 2019-20

SG Delon Wright - 3 years $28M + 25% = $35M; $11.84M salary for 2019-20

SF Danuel House - 3 years $11.15M + 25% = $13.94M; $4.425M salary for 2019-20

PF Jabari Parker - 2 years $13M; $6.5M salary for 2019-20

C Thomas Bryant - 3 years $25M + 25% = $31.25M; $9.92M salary for 2019-20

= total 2019-20 salary of $37M

 

That lineup would destroy our current bench and have us in the playoffs this season.

Did we have $40 mil after taking on Crabbe and Hill for picks?  I can't remember.

We'd still have Plumlee (12) and Baze (19)

 

[AHF]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Did we have $40 mil after taking on Crabbe and Hill for picks?  I can't remember.

We'd still have Plumlee (12) and Baze (19)

 

That wasn't me saying we should have done that last offseason (although I wanted some of that like when I called for TJ McConnell as our backup PG).  That is me saying that this offseason when half of those guys are gone that we have plenty of money to instantly make big upgrades to our competitiveness without giving up any assets. 

Bench depth should be very achievable for next year because you can buy that level of player just off the FA heap.  The more strategic consideration for this year is whether to make a trade for a core player and what we need to ensure our players can fully develop.

[JTB]

52 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If you notice, the east best teams are loaded with great benches. If you notice, all of the best worse teams are too in the east like Washington and Detroit. 

The Hawks want to start winning games and building a great team, they gotta make that bench a lot better outside of Len and Parker. 

Gotcha....

that’s understandable! It really is but the approach is odd to me. You don’t have to make trades to build a great bench when you have the amount of cap space the hawks care going to have this summer!

there may not be many stars in this free agency coming up but there’s enough good talent to build a outstanding bench in free agency. 

it’s very telling of Schlenk abilities as a gm if he would rather build a bench off of trades rather than possibly fighting for bench talent in the off season and I don’t mean that as an insult to him as it doesn’t matter how you do it  as long as you get what you want but I thought the hawks could get a vanvleet or someone of that talent via free agency simply by giving a few extra millions...with them trying to do a mid season overhaul (trying)...it somewhat sends out a signal that they aren’t confident that even a good bench player would look the Hawks way via free agency...did I take it too far? ...someone probably agrees with me 

 

whateve in Schlenk we trust

[JTB]

57 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I don't necessarily agree with this, they did trade for Bogut.  They had Marreese Speights as their backup C when they won their 1st championship.

Then they had stop gaps like Zaza and Javale - they won on the strengths of their best players - guards and wings. When you have that you need a rough and tumble center to do the dirty work that doesn't show up in your stat sheets - set screens, defend in the PnR and at the rim and rebound. Be a toughy.

Bam is 6'-9", Sabonis is 6'-11" - what they are is tough...we need toughness at that position.  Having good to great players on the wings makes life easier for Centers like Bam and Sabonis, they just do what they do. They aren't carrying offensive loads.

Gotcha I will have to say we will agree to disagree on this one!

sounds like you’re putting bam and sabonis on the same level as bogut, spieghts, zaza lol...and I think there’s a wide gap between the talent of bam and sabonis compared to those guys.

bam and sabonis has real impact on their teams both offensively and defensively to me. They aren’t out there just setting screens and playing dirty like zaza... I mean physical like zaza...

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, JTB said:

Gotcha....

that’s understandable! It really is but the approach is odd to me. You don’t have to make trades to build a great bench when you have the amount of cap space the hawks care going to have this summer!

there may not be many stars in this free agency coming up but there’s enough good talent to build a outstanding bench in free agency. 

it’s very telling of Schlenk abilities as a gm if he would rather build a bench off of trades rather than possibly fighting for bench talent in the off season and I don’t mean that as an insult to him as it doesn’t matter how you do it  as long as you get what you want but I thought the hawks could get a vanvleet or someone of that talent via free agency simply by giving a few extra millions...with them trying to do a mid season overhaul (trying)...it somewhat sends out a signal that they aren’t confident that even a good bench player would look the Hawks way via free agency...did I take it too far? ...someone probably agrees with me 

 

whateve in Schlenk we trust

If you make trades you already know what the player is getting paid vs their current production. FAcy offers more chances of overpaying since that player will have more suitors. 

I don't think it's Supes saying that's all TS will do though. He's just saying that he's targeting guys to help Immediately plus re-sign them. Plus we have $70+ mil - whoever we trade for won't take up all that cap.

[JayBirdHawk]

@NBASupes

What's the word on Jonas Val.from Memphis? 

He has 2 years beyond this year at $15 and $14 mil.

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, JTB said:

Gotcha I will have to say we will agree to disagree on this one!

sounds like you’re putting bam and sabonis on the same level as bogut, spieghts, zaza lol...and I think there’s a wide gap between the talent of bam and sabonis compared to those guys.

bam and sabonis has real impact on their teams both offensively and defensively to me. They aren’t out there just setting screens and playing dirty like zaza... I mean physical like zaza...

No I'm saying when you have other high end talent like GSW did - servicable Center is all that's needed. 

I'm saying I'm not as concerned about Bam and Sabonis in the East as I would be Butler and Dipo.

Here's a side by side comparison of Bam (6'-9" listed as C), Sabonis (6'-10" listed as PF/C)and our very own John Collins (6-9" listed as PF).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Bam+Adebayo&player_id1_select=Bam+Adebayo&y1=2020&player_id1=adebaba01&idx=players&player_id2_hint=John+Collins&player_id2_select=John+Collins&y2=2020&player_id2=collijo01&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Domantas+Sabonis&player_id3_select=Domantas+Sabonis&y3=2020&player_id3=sabondo01&idx=players

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@NBASupes

What's the word on Jonas Val.from Memphis? 

He has 2 years beyond this year at $15 and $14 mil.

Memphis trying to build like Dallas. Not available unless you want to overpay

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

Gotcha....

that’s understandable! It really is but the approach is odd to me. You don’t have to make trades to build a great bench when you have the amount of cap space the hawks care going to have this summer!

there may not be many stars in this free agency coming up but there’s enough good talent to build a outstanding bench in free agency. 

it’s very telling of Schlenk abilities as a gm if he would rather build a bench off of trades rather than possibly fighting for bench talent in the off season and I don’t mean that as an insult to him as it doesn’t matter how you do it  as long as you get what you want but I thought the hawks could get a vanvleet or someone of that talent via free agency simply by giving a few extra millions...with them trying to do a mid season overhaul (trying)...it somewhat sends out a signal that they aren’t confident that even a good bench player would look the Hawks way via free agency...did I take it too far? ...someone probably agrees with me 

 

whateve in Schlenk we trust

It's all about where we are at now and where we were as a team then. At that time, it wasn't of interest to add players who can help us win. It was all about developing the core. That's why I keep saying, everything was about the core. 

[Marvin24Williams]

Schröder getting any interest from around the league?

Edited January 15, 2020 by Marvin24Williams

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, Marvin24Williams said:

Schröder getting any interest from around the league?

Some but his contract is getting them expiring offers. Nothing attractive. He is a package candidate. 

[JTB]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Some but his contract is getting them expiring offers. Nothing attractive. He is a package candidate. 

I wonder if Schlenk would trade to get Dennis back.