Coaching!

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

  Maybe we should all pick the same game from last year to watch and have a game thread discussion of it.  

I have a few starting with that 1st Sixer game when LP inserted Collins into the game to guard Embiid at the end of that game only to result in a foul and 2 free throws for Embiid to win the game.

[Spud2nique]

10 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I must say, it is beyond hilarious watching two level-headed dudes like you and @AHF goin' off. 

I gave y'all full warning #AgendaSquawk was making a come back.  This is gonna be the longest, weirdest offseason.

And, to your point, I've been watching replays with the same intensity as if I didn't already know the outcome.

Hey I’m ready to release the spud flex pics again. Just cue me in!  

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Hey I’m ready to release the spud flex pics again. Just cue me in!  

This one?

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I gave y'all full warning #AgendaSquawk was making a come back.  This is gonna be the longest, weirdest offseason.

And, to your point, I've been watching replays with the same intensity as if I didn't already know the outcome.

Got no problems discussing issues but when it is this transparent we are jumping to an already reached conclusion, that is tough to ignore.

[kg01]

13 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Hey I’m ready to release the spud flex pics again. Just cue me in!  

 

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 

I’ll be in the garage if anyone needs me.

 

  

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

This one?

Lol ...the garage! #coronapressingon #pushorbepushed 

[Spud2nique]

17 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

This one?

The last dance pumped me up Mac! Will you be the Jerry Krause to my Michael Jordan? Mike got raw @kg01. What the hell was that?  
 

Remember all those commercials. I wanna be like Mike. All those kids didn’t know they wanted to be bullies. Kid if you wanna be like Mike, you better get a chubby sidekick to push around.

Mike was straight bullying folks.

 

course #189543 Bullying 101 professor :

Jordan, M.

 

Student reviews:

Krause, J. : He really shows you how to do it. A real hands 🖐 on type of approach. My self esteem was lowered quite a bit thanks to Mr. Jordan.

[Peoriabird]

Todd Kirkland/Getty Images

Report: Disconnect between Trae Young and Hawks coach Lloyd Pierce

 

Trae Young – in his breakout year – has shown frustration during the Hawks’ 20-47 season.

Apparently, some of it has been toward Hawks coach Lloyd Pierce.

Chris Kirschner of The Athletic:

sources with knowledge of Young’s thinking have confirmed that his relationship with Pierce isn’t strong.

Young is the Hawks’ franchise player. If it comes to it, they’ll choose him over Pierce. Elite young talents like Young are difficult to acquire. Coaches are far more replaceable.

But Atlanta also ought to be careful about enabling Young’s bad habits.

Young is an inept defender. He can be too sloppy with the ball. His ball dominance can frustrate teammates.

Maybe all that improves as Young gains experience and the Hawks’ supporting cast improves. If Young doesn’t need to shoulder so much offensive load, perhaps he’ll defend more energetically. He’s just 21 and will probably see the floor better later. A superb passer, Young could distribute more quickly to better teammates – or at least learn how to make his teammates feel more connected.

But firing Pierce could send an implicit message that Young is doing everything right. There’s risk of instilling a losing culture.

Young is incredibly talented, especially for his age. He also must develop better winning habits. The Hawks’ challenge is finding the coach who’ll help Young do that.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/04/03/report-disconnect-between-trae-young-and-hawks-coach-lloyd-pierce/

[AHF]

There is no question that LP won't survive if he and Young can't work together.

[Buzzard]

56 minutes ago, AHF said:

There is no question that LP won't survive if he and Young can't work together.

12-23 Collins first game back; he played in 37 games from that point on. Significant losses we suffered after his return:

Bucks 112-86
Bulls 116-81
Nets 108-86
Pistons 136-103
Thunder 140-111
Raptors 130-116
Mavericks 123-100
Cavaliers 127-105
76ers 129-112
Grizzlies 127-88
Grizzlies 118-101

This is over 25% of our games after Collins returned. Anything over double digits is considered bad losses by most; the above are horrible losses. The most disheartening part of this is the Bucks and 76ers are the only teams considered Championship level out of this list. If you want to say the Raptors are, I will give you that but its a stretch in my opinion.

I understand why Trae would be upset. Who wouldn't?

Edited April 21, 2020 by Buzzard

[JayBirdHawk]

Quote

Evaluating the merit of coaches on bad teams can often be more challenging than parsing the value of the players themselves. With arguably less influence over their team’s game-to-game success than ever before, most coaches are only as good as the talent with which they have to work. Judging young or unproven coaches solely by wins and losses ignores context and minimizes the importance of the process required to become a quality team. That makes the returns on Lloyd Pierce’s second season with the Hawks -- his entire tenure, really -- inconclusive.

The learning curve for coaches is similar to that of players. They must discover -- often by trial and error -- how to manage a rotation, when to spend timeouts, how to get the most out of the talent on the team, and so on. That isn’t a two-year process, and Pierce has seen both high and low moments in his first two seasons as a head coach.

 

We can all agree this was the biggest snafu

Quote

His most notable misstep of the season came in Miami, when he pulled Trae Young from the game for a defensive possession, got his desired result, but then neglected to call timeout to get his star back in the game...............Pierce has since owned up to that mistake multiple times, admitting he outsmarted himself and blew a good opportunity.

 

Quote

But he also hit the right notes down the stretch of other games, which understandably don’t get the same attention. Such is the life of an NBA head coach outside the playoff picture and the national consciousness. 

Much of Pierce’s work occurs behind the scenes -- namely developing players and helping build a sustainable culture. He gives players room to experiment and grow their games and his staff focuses heavily on player development. Most every young player in Atlanta’s system has improved noticeably under Pierce, and while it’s too early to definitively assess his job performance in that area, he and his staff are off to an encouraging start.

 

For those wondering about playing Trae off ball:

Quote

It seems that he’d like to unleash Young as an off-ball weapon more often, but didn’t have quite the surrounding talent to do so and couldn’t get Young to fully invest in that kind of role. 

 

 

 

[Peoriabird]

Judging young or unproven coaches solely by wins and losses ignores context and minimizes the importance of the process required to become a quality team.

When has wins and loses every come up in a discussion about LP's performance other than the blow out loses to teams with less talent?

The learning curve for coaches is similar to that of players. They must discover -- often by trial and error -- how to manage a rotation, when to spend timeouts, how to get the most out of the talent on the team, and so on.

There are so many example of 1st year coaches doing well!  Lets start with Nick Nurse/Taylor Genkins/Erick Spostra just to name a few.

His most notable misstep of the season came in Miami, when he pulled Trae Young from the game for a defensive possession, got his desired result, but then neglected to call timeout to get his star back in the game

This is one of many...Still remember the Philly game with 8 sec left in a tie game Pierce pull Len and puts Collins into the game to guard Embiid with 5 fouls. Of course foul and Collin foul out on the play.

Much of Pierce’s work occurs behind the scenes -- namely developing players and helping build a sustainable culture.

This is such a joke!  LOL!  He can't get Young to stop ball hogging and shooting 25 times a game.  He can't get Young to play off the ball.  He can't get Young to care about defense. He can't get young to stop turning the ball over.  He can't get Huerter to take more the 18% of his shots in the lane. He can't get the team as a whole to play defense or rebound and the list goes on and on.  Where is this develop everybody talks about?

Most every young player in Atlanta’s system has improved noticeably under Pierce

Who paid this dude off to tell these lies?

It seems that he’d like to unleash Young as an off-ball weapon more often but couldn’t get Young to fully invest in that kind of role. 

And this my friends is the biggest problem.  We need to find someone who can get this team to play like they are suppose to.

[JayBirdHawk]

On 4/19/2020 at 1:16 PM, Peoriabird said:

Schlenk said he came away this season impressed with Huerter’s level of professionalism and his commitment to getting better, but Schlenk still said there seems to be an aggression issue that hopefully can be worked on because of how well Huerter can shoot. There shouldn’t be a reason for someone his size and his athleticism to have only 18 percent of his shots come at the rim and only have a 57 percent field goal percentage when he is driving to the basket.

Should this be left up to Huerter to correct or should the coaches notice this and correct it?

More...since you asked if coaches notice and correct.

Quote

The Hawks coach relayed a message to Huerter’s dad that still applies today. 

“I said ‘Hey, Mr. Huerter. Tell your son to shoot more,’” Pierce said, laughing. “It shouldn’t happen that way. Coaches shouldn’t be able to tell the dads to tell their sons to shoot more. It’s usually the other way, you’ve got dads, parents telling the coach, ‘My son needs more shots.’ ”

 

Pierce sees Huerter as someone who can get up to 40% from 3, which is Huerter’s specialty, although he’s shown his passing ability as well, stepping up in games when Young was out. He also wants to see more shot attempts: Huerter, who started 48 of his 56 games played, had 10.9 field-goal attempts per game this season, with six of those 3-point attempts. 

“When you have that kind of player, that kind of shooter, that capability, you always want to increase the number of attempts that he gets,” Pierce said. “I was always challenging him. Sometimes you have to take contested 3’s to be really good. Sometimes you have to work a little bit harder to make defenders chase you, because you’re that good of a shooter. It’s an unintended consequence, when he does that, when he’s looking to shoot that often, when he’s moving that much off the basketball as a shooter, he’s going to create more opportunities not just for himself, but for other guys. So we’re encouraging him.” 

 

 

[Peoriabird]

On 4/21/2020 at 4:34 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

More...since you asked if coaches notice and correct.

 

 

Did he ask nicely?  Bottom line is there are coaches that can get players to buy in and there are others that can't.  You're making the case for me that Pierce just can't.

[Peoriabird]

32 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Did he ask nicely?  Bottom line is there are coaches that can get players to buy in and there are others that can't.  Your making the case for me that Pierce just can't.

And by the way, where is Vince when these issues came up?  Wasn't he suppose to be the go between or did the team flip him off too?

[JayBirdHawk]

16 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Did he ask nicely?  Bottom line is there are coaches that can get players to buy in and there are others that can't.  Your making the case for me that Pierce just can't.

I disagree - I just think there has not been enough of a sample size to make a DEFINITIVE determination one way or the other. We have seen KH play that way sometimes but like I've said before, young players lack CONSISTENCY.   Sometimes, it's not in the players DNA - ala Jeff Teague.  Besides players aren't ALWAYS quick to buy in, sometimes it takes them time.  You think Jordan was a fan of the Triangle when Phil first brought it. Nope.

Again - its a Work In Progress by all, players and coaches, and even TS.

[JayBirdHawk]

22 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

And by the way, where is Vince when these issue come up?  Wasn't he suppose to be the go between or did the team flip him off too?

I think I've posted enough articles/snippets/comments from the young players regarding Vince's impact durung ganes, on the bench and in the locker room.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

  You think Jordan was a fan of the Triangle when Phil first brought it.

They won the Championship in Jackson's 2nd year so Jordan bought into something. And so did Kobe and Shaq

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think I've posted enough articles/snippets/comments from the young players regarding Vince's impact durung ganes, on the bench and in the locker room.

Too bad it didn't work.  They continue to play unsound basketball despite his advise