Coaching!

[macdaddy]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

ny time Pierce could get on the court and work with the players in drills, he would. It’s something that he still does in Atlanta. When Cam Reddish struggled offensively during the first few months of the season, Pierce individually worked with him and encouraged the rookie to not get down on himself and that his game would turn around. That motivation was critical for Reddish.

“That means everything to me,” Reddish said in February. “I know, obviously, a lot of guys around the league are telling me to continue playing my game. A lot of people thought if they went through what I went through — I was shooting like five percent (from 3) in October, right? You would get benched elsewhere. I have an opportunity here to continue to work on it and continue to get better at it. I am really appreciative of (Pierce).”

This isn't what i was led to believe.  This almost sounds like developing players. 

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

This isn't what i was led to believe.  This almost sounds like developing players. 

Its easy to talk about developing players!

[AHF]

15 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Its easy to talk about developing players!

If only we had results to look to where players had notably improved since they started under him!

Seriously, player development is his strongest suit given what we've seen from Trae, JC, Hunter and Reddish in particular.  These guys are not finished products or free from areas where they can still develop but they have made huge positive strides (well, that may overstate Hunter but he did improve over the season).  Will be interested to see if other players who didn't develop as hoped (Bembry stands out) go on to show significant growth after leaving the team.

[Peoriabird]

14 minutes ago, AHF said:

If only we had results to look to where players had notably improved since they started under him!

Seriously, player development is his strongest suit given what we've seen from Trae, JC, Hunter and Reddish in particular.  These guys are not finished products or free from areas where they can still develop but they have made huge positive strides (well, that may overstate Hunter but he did improve over the season).  Will be interested to see if other players who didn't develop as hoped (Bembry stands out) go on to show significant growth after leaving the team.

They use to say the same thing about Mike Smith.  Mike Smith developed Matt Ryan yada yada yada.  Trae worked all summer long to learn to draw foul and to improve his shot.  Trae's defense is the same because Trae himself didn't work on it.  All the other guys were going organically improve with repetition and getting strong..  Huerter looks like he has peaked out....He has demonstrated no improvement over his 1st year. Len actually got worse

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

They use to say the same thing about Mike Smith.  Mike Smith developed Matt Ryan yada yada yada.  Trae worked all summer long to learn to draw foul and to improve his shot.  Trae's defense is the same because Trae himself didn't work on it.  All the other guys were going organically improve with repetition and getting strong..  Huerter looks like he has peaked out....He has demonstrated no improvement over his 1st year. Len actually got worse

JC's development has been the least organic - adding whole new elements to his game while improving on defense and expanding on the things he already did well.  Huerter almost had a lost season this year.  I don't think I'd say he looks like he has peaked because he is young and struggled on and off with injuries for much of the year but I'll meet you halfway and say that he stagnated this year.  No real progress from year 1.  Trae was a little better on D this year, imo, but still has a long way to go so I wouldn't count that as a meaningful improvement yet but almost every other element of his game was very significant:  assists up, turnovers down, scoring efficiency went way up, overall impact way better.  

Reddish was a study in positive growth over the season and he gives a lot of credit to LP for that.  Hunter also showed progression to me over the course of the season even if it wasn't on such a steep incline as Cam.  

Len wasn't that different for the season other than his 3pt shot.  Here are his per 36 numbers for the last two seasons:

2018-19 19.9 points, 9.9 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 0.6 steals, 1.6 blocks, PER 17.2, WS/48 .100, VORP 0.3

2019-20 16.9 points, 11.1 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.0 steal, 1.6 blocks, PER 17.5, WS/48 .113, VORP 0.3

He scored an averaged of 3 points fewer from 3pt range per 36 last season which is the exact difference in his total points per 36.

So I'm not seeing a big drop-off in his numbers - in fact they look remarkably similar other than the dip in long-range shooting and the improved rebounding.  The big contrast for me is the way he finished 2018-19 on fire which set expectations high for him starting this year and then the abysmal start he had to the 2019-20 season before significantly improving when he went back to coming off the bench.

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

JC's development has been the least organic - adding whole new elements to his game while improving on defense and expanding on the things he already did well.  Huerter almost had a lost season this year.  I don't think I'd say he looks like he has peaked because he is young and struggled on and off with injuries for much of the year but I'll meet you halfway and say that he stagnated this year.  No real progress from year 1.  Trae was a little better on D this year, imo, but still has a long way to go so I wouldn't count that as a meaningful improvement yet but almost every other element of his game was very significant:  assists up, turnovers down, scoring efficiency went way up, overall impact way better.  

Reddish was a study in positive growth over the season and he gives a lot of credit to LP for that.  Hunter also showed progression to me over the course of the season even if it wasn't on such a steep incline as Cam.  

Len wasn't that different for the season other than his 3pt shot.  Here are his per 36 numbers for the last two seasons:

2018-19 19.9 points, 9.9 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 0.6 steals, 1.6 blocks, PER 17.2, WS/48 .100, VORP 0.3

2019-20 16.9 points, 11.1 rebounds, 2.0 assists, 1.0 steal, 1.6 blocks, PER 17.5, WS/48 .113, VORP 0.3

He scored an averaged of 3 points fewer from 3pt range per 36 last season which is the exact difference in his total points per 36.

So I'm not seeing a big drop-off in his numbers - in fact they look remarkably similar other than the dip in long-range shooting and the improved rebounding.  The big contrast for me is the way he finished 2018-19 on fire which set expectations high for him starting this year and then the abysmal start he had to the 2019-20 season before significantly improving when he went back to coming off the bench.

The thing that I'm most disappointed is that the team plays sloppy.  The team doesn't communicate on defense or pay attention to the other nuances that are important to winning or at the very least playing good basketball.  By now, LP should have stressed to these guys the importance of defense communication during games but he hasn't. I find that strange to say the least

The team just doesn't play well together especially on offense either...Too many turnover, very little movement during offensive sets while players are undisciplined often easily baited into taking low percentage shots for them.  Only Trae know how to draw fouls consistently.  The team get man handled on the board because no one boxes out despite having several good rebounds at their position including the point guard position.

As far as the players are concerned, John looks the same to me.  Yeah he shoots 3's at a high percentage but he plays the same which is why he doesn't get the respect he deserves.  Everyone sees him as purely a rim running garbage man.  Hunter and Reddish are rookies so they don't count.  Reddish went from awful to serviceable while Hunter just improved his shooting.  His defense actually got worse as the season progressed.  Much of the improvement of players 1st introduced to the game is normal.  Its probably very rare that any rookie in the league is the same at the end of his rookie season not just Hawk rookies coached by LP. 

[Peoriabird]

Very interesting video on Coaching and team building which will ultimately decide which free agent is signed this off season.

 

[aali34]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Very interesting video on Coaching and team building which will ultimately decide which free agent is signed this off season.

 

Reminds me of Nick Nurse.

 

 

[lethalweapon3]

Good to see Mr. See You in the Second Round doing well, hadn't thought of him in a minute.

Coach showing some Lloyalty to his star guard with the "Trae" ceiling, nice! lol

~lw3

[kg01]

Whoa ..... peo with a seemingly complimentary post on CLP ....

ETA: Just laugh with me, peo.  I just kid.

Edited August 6, 2020 by kg01

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Whoa ..... peo with a seemingly complimentary post on CLP ....

 

Don't get carried away here.  I was just fascinated with the team building part when he said that bring a vet. to Atlanta to play behind young players might be a problem.  The fans don't take this into consideration when talking about potential free agent signings

[Spud2nique]

28 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Whoa ..... peo with a seemingly complimentary post on CLP ....

ETA: Just laugh with me, peo.  I just kid.

Ah you disappoint me my friend. Apparently you didn’t catch the real message in the video from coach that pro wanted to pass along. Lloyd doesn’t want a “blame me only later” approach so he’s basically given himself a security blanket saying it was a “team” decision and please don’t fire me cuz I see it coming.

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Ah you disappoint me my friend. Apparently you didn’t catch the real message in the video from coach that pro wanted to pass along. Lloyd doesn’t want a “blame me only later” approach so he’s basically given himself a security blanket saying it was a “team” decision and please don’t fire me cuz I see it coming.

So the team made him play Vince Carter all of those minutes?  What kind of coach is he if the front office is dictating to him who to play?

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So the team made him play Vince Carter all of those minutes?  What kind of coach is he if the front office is dictating to him who to play?

Ah, that's more like it. 

[Spud2nique]

15 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Ah, that's more like it. 

Deflect. Next time watch the video.

[macdaddy]

22 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So the team made him play Vince Carter all of those minutes?  What kind of coach is he if the front office is dictating to him who to play?

This is every coach hired to oversee a rebuild.  

[Peoriabird]

On 8/7/2020 at 8:56 AM, macdaddy said:

This is every coach hired to oversee a rebuild.  

Why would the front office want LP to play Vince at center at power forward rather than giving Bruno and Damien Jones more minutes

[macdaddy]

26 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why would the front office want LP to play Vince at center and power forward rather than giving Bruno and Damien Jones more minutes

Well mine was a more general comment that rebuilding always comes with discussion between general manager and coach on how best to develop players.   

I don't know the answer to your question...maybe i do.  LP played Jones pretty extensively early but it became clear he wasn't a part of the future.  I'm glad we didn't invest a lot in him.   Bruno had a lot of personal issues to deal with last year and just wasn't fully up to speed.  I think without that, if he'd been mired on the bench then FO would have put pressure to play him more.   The last reason was that Vince was a feel good story that got the Hawks some positive attention.   

[kg01]

30 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why would the front office want LP to play Vince at center and power forward rather than giving Bruno and Damien Jones more minutes

Because the development targets are the guards/wangs not the bigs you listed.  Duh

There's a more than decent chance Bruno's getting drafted over this offseason.  As someone touting us drafting Wiseman, I'd think you'd realize that.

I'm not even talking about Lamien Jones.  He's not an NBA player.

[Peoriabird]

28 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Because the development targets are the guards/wangs not the bigs you listed.  Duh

There's a more than decent chance Bruno's getting drafted over this offseason.  As someone touting us drafting Wiseman, I'd think you'd realize that.

I'm not even talking about Lamien Jones.  He's not an NBA player.

So you don't develop your young bigs even though John Collins missed 25 games and Len was hurt the majority of that stretch.  Instead you play Vince Carter in that role who was far worse than Damien Jones?  I'm not understanding either explanation.