Hawks made it to the Quarter Turn of the season....

[Peoriabird]

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

I’m not reacting to an imaginary scenario (I phrase it that way because I think it is almost a zero chance that everything goes right for a “best” case scenario come the playoffs and the range of reasonable scenarios could lead to a wide range of outcomes).  I’m going to react to what actually happens.  I think the team should be able to manage to the playoffs regardless of anything but the most extreme outcomes.

I definitely don’t buy into this equation:

* 5th worst team in the nba in 2019-20

+ 

* fewer practices and games in 2020 than any playoff competitor from last season

+ 

* a draft pick who has been hurt and doesn’t appear ready to make a major impact

+

* an “same old Hawks” offseason where TS failed to add any difference makers and where those new additions have had health issues

+ 

* an incompetent coach who doesn’t develop his players and has no competent systems or schemes

= top 4 team in the East

 

So it’s likely we are going to approach it from a different perspective.  And that’s ok.

So wait...You are comfortable making a prediction on the team's record based on a scenario that you think will happen but not speculate on the best outcome for the team given its talent.  Interesting.

[macdaddy]

You know i think i'm convinced now.   If we don't win a championship then it's a failure and all the players and coaches suck.

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

You know i think i'm convinced now.   If we don't win a championship then it's a failure and all the players and coaches suck.

Welcome to the club.  If you don't go 83-0 every year ..... you suck!

[RedDawg#8]

13 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

When do the expectations go up then? Cause it sounds like you are content with a middling team that can lose to anybody.  Or do you just keep them low to avoid feelings of disappoint or something like that?

 

11 hours ago, AHF said:

Last year the expectation was being in the lottery.  This year the expectation is to be in the playoffs.  Big change.

10 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Exactly

 

46 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

OK.  AHF clearly stated that he would be satisfied with a playoff birth and your response was "Exactly" So forgive me if I was a little confused by that reply.  Its good to know now that you would not be content with just a playoff birth... I would be disappointed myself because I think the team has more potential than last year's Orlando team.

You are wrong again dude. I said EXACTLY because you implied that expectations for our team never go up and his response immediately shut that down. I have always stated we weren't built to win last year. There were no playoff expectations. This is the first season the organization has placed those expectations on the team and coach.

Nothing in his post that responded to your question about EXPECTATIONS matches your summary of the exchange.

You: when do we raise expectations?

AHF: We just did this year

ME: Exactly 

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

You: when do we raise expectations?

AHF: We just did this year

ME: Exactly 

So when do we raise expectations for this year's team not last year's team. Why would we be discussing last year's team anyway????

[RedDawg#8]

44 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So when do we raise expectations for this year's team not last year's team. Why would we be discussing last year's team anyway????

Okay,

So, in the offseason it was just playoffs. Many of us would have been fine with 8 seed.

Now, I would say after the contenders: Philly, Bos, Mil and BKN, we are somewhere in the pack of 5-7 hopefully. So for me, avoiding the play in round by securing a 6 seed or better  is a comfortable expectation for us. That accounts for injuries and continued struggles getting guys back in the rotation while also taking in to account that at our best, we have enough talent to beat most teams. 
 

That to me, going from 8 to 6, represents raised expectations. 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Okay,

So, in the offseason it was just playoffs. Many of us would have been fine with 8 seed.

Now, I would say after the contenders: Philly, Bos, Mil and BKN, we are somewhere in the pack of 5-7 hopefully. So for me, avoiding the play in round by securing a 6 seed or better  is a comfortable expectation for us. That accounts for injuries and continued struggles getting guys back in the rotation while also taking in to account that at our best, we have enough talent to beat most teams. 
 

That to me, going from 8 to 6, represents raised expectations. 

[REHawksFan]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

So when do we raise expectations for this year's team not last year's team. Why would we be discussing last year's team anyway????

The expectations set in the preseason WERE raised compared to previous expectations. Now you want to raise them again based on 25% of the season being played out?  Based on what?  I mean, I have a theory, but you ain't gonna like it.  

 

 

[RedDawg#8]

5 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

The expectations set in the preseason WERE raised compared to previous expectations. Now you want to raise them again based on 25% of the season being played out?  Based on what?  I mean, I have a theory, but you ain't gonna like it.  

 

 

 

Some people just cant help themselves lol

[Peoriabird]

51 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

The expectations set in the preseason WERE raised compared to previous expectations. Now you want to raise them again based on 25% of the season being played out?  Based on what?  I mean, I have a theory, but you ain't gonna like it.  

 

 

I wasn't aware of this process behind the scenes so forgive me.  I just see things like it was an expected loss because it was a  trap game.  Or we were on a back to back against Cleveland.  Or that was a nice close loss to the Nets or we weren't suppose to beat this team or that team. We use injuries even injuries to players that LP doesn't even play like Okongwu.  So my simple question is...When are we going  to stop making excuses every time this team loses to a team like Charlotte back to back?  In other words raising the expectations.

[macdaddy]

21 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I wasn't aware of this process behind the scenes so forgive me.  I just see things like it was an expected loss because it was a  trap game.  Or we were on a back to back against Cleveland.  Or that was a nice close loss to the Nets or we weren't suppose to beat this team or that team. We use injuries even injuries to players that LP doesn't even play like Okongwu.  So my simple question is...When are we going  to stop making excuses every time this team loses to a team like Charlotte back to back?  In other words raising the expectations.

There's a difference between excuses and explanations.   And we're not going to win every game.   There's been plenty of criticism for these losses along with the so called excuses.  No one is saying everything is perfect.   But for a coach who supposedly doesn't know what he's doing i think top 10 in offensive and defensive efficiency shows great progress.  

Expectations have been raised already.    We just can't figure out what you consider high enough expectations and just to call it what it is it just seems like you are desperate to latch onto anything to support your anti-LP agenda despite the fact that all evidence points to this team performing really well.   If that's unfair please say so.  

[REHawksFan]

25 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So my simple question is...When are we going  to stop making excuses every time this team loses to a team like Charlotte back to back?  In other words raising the expectations.

This question is SO incredibly disingenuous. You were here for those two games. You know dang well this place was LIVID that they lost either game. It was two disappointing, pathetic performances and frankly, I do not recall anyone making excuses for either loss.  Neither game was a back to back so that's out.  The only think I recall saying is the truth.......this team still can't win if Trae plays poorly.  And he sucked both games.   

It seems to me you are just looking for reasons to be argumentative. And I don't think the current issue you have holds any water. Care to try again?  

[terrell]

23 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

It continues to amaze me how some posters can watch Trae and Hunter play and conclude that Trae is far superior to Hunter with regards to initiating the offense.  I personally think that Hunter is an excellent facilitator and certainly more consistently good at it than Trae. Now Trae is a better passer no doubt but Trae make way more poor decisions that Hunter and it's not even close.

Could Hunter play a little Point forward one day? His ball handling/passing skills are way better than what the "experts" gave him credit for...And I trust him with the ball in his hands. You know he'll make the right decision...

Edited January 29, 2021 by terrell

[RedDawg#8]

4 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I can do so much with this........ 

Go for it, I deserve it for falling for the trap again lol

[AHF]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

So wait...You are comfortable making a prediction on the team's record based on a scenario that you think will happen but not speculate on the best outcome for the team given its talent.  Interesting.

My assumption is the best case scenario will never happen.  I don't think we'll ever have the full team healthy and firing on all cylinders with hot hands as would be necessary for a best case scenario.  Thank about the Hawks performance in January of 2015 as about the closest we've seen to a best case scenario in real life for the Hawks.  (Also think about how different things were by the time they finished the regular season grind.)

Making a pre-season prediction is not a best or worst case.  It can be done somewhat arbitrarily for fun.  It can be done more analytically by looking at the range of likely scenarios and the predictor making their best guess for which is the most likely outcome.

I do find that much more interesting and more meaningful than playing out a best or worst case scenario.

[Atlantaholic]

Somewhat the type of record I thought we would have, but definitely didn't see it happening this way with the ups and downs, the drama and the injuries. Overall, we look like a playoff team. When (if?) we get everyone back we should be a bit better than just a playoff team definite top 4 potential.

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, macdaddy said:

 Expectations have been raised already.    We just can't figure out what you consider high enough expectations and just to call it what it is it just seems like you are desperate to latch onto anything to support your anti-LP agenda despite the fact that all evidence points to this team performing really well.   If that's unfair please say so.  

This is a little unfair in that I'm not solely thinking about issues with the coaching staff when evaluating the team's performance thus far.  I am also concerned about issues with some of the players themselves.  Plus you said it best!  The team is top 10 in offense and defense but yet loses half of its games.  You would expect more win from a team with that capability and to have more wins during this soft part of their schedule.

[macdaddy]

12 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

This is a little unfair in that I'm not solely thinking about issues with the coaching staff when evaluating the team's performance thus far.  I am also concerned about issues with some of the players themselves.  Plus you said it best!  The team is top 10 in offense and defense but yet loses half of its games.  You would expect more win from a team with that capability and to have more wins during this soft part of their schedule.

I agree with the last sentence 100%.  It's a sign that we blew some easily winnable games.   But since that time we've bounced back in my opinion. 

[JayBirdHawk]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

 You would expect more win from a team with that capability and to have more wins during this soft part of their schedule.

 

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I agree with the last sentence 100%.  It's a sign that we blew some easily winnable games.   But since that time we've bounced back in my opinion. 

These 4 games sting.

 

We were up by 15 in the 2nd half of the Cavs and Knicks and had an epic meltdown. No excuses for that. 

The Hornets game were a combination of the 'Trae Headcase' games and we were unable to solve the Hornets Zone defense, we were just throwing up 3s.  I'm please to note we have looked better against the zones we've faced following those 2 games.

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

My assumption is the best case scenario will never happen.  I don't think we'll ever have the full team healthy and firing on all cylinders with hot hands as would be necessary for a best case scenario.  Thank about the Hawks performance in January of 2015 as about the closest we've seen to a best case scenario in real life for the Hawks.  (Also think about how different things were by the time they finished the regular season grind.)

Making a pre-season prediction is not a best or worst case.  It can be done somewhat arbitrarily for fun.  It can be done more analytically by looking at the range of likely scenarios and the predictor making their best guess for which is the most likely outcome.

I do find that much more interesting and more meaningful than playing out a best or worst case scenario.

Only 7 players need to be fully healthy!  The rest are fill ins.  The team's destiny will actually be determined by 2 players...Cam and Trae period.  The other 5 are consistently giving what you need to win.  The only 2 bench players that matter to me are Huerter and Gallo.  The rest don't make an impact.  Okungwu could eventually be included because I do see the talent and what he brings but he needs floor time.  I'm not sold on Bogie being a plus but he could be.  The rest of the bench doesn't offer much.  If Cam and Trae play to their potential I see top 4 potential.  If not, 7 or 8 seed or worse.  That's how I see it.