Where do Trae/Bogi rank all time Hawks backcourt

[Spud2nique]

18 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Joe. Bibby. and the Highlight Factory Hawks

 

 

I’m sorry North but you already voted once for Mookie/Smitty. This isn’t a buffet.

 

[MarylandHawk]

Seriously though, that pistol pete combo is at the top although I did not see a bit of it.  But the rest are interesting.  That Bibi Johnson combo is a bit underrated. But I have to go with Mookie and Steve pairing at the top of the rest when you incorporate defense. But Bogi and Trae or Trae and Cam are on pace to blow the rest out of the water. 

[Gray Mule]

Always go with the best.  Whoever is currently playing the position is the best, always.  Doesn't matter who it is.  They are the best!

[sturt]

I'm a Pistol fan b/c he's really the reason I'm a Hawks fan today. And while he was surrounded by some good talent (Sweet Lou, the Bell, Walt Hazzard), he was never such a force that his teams became a serious contender.

Doc was comparable to Mookie, ie in terms of both what the two brought to the table offensively and defensively.

Wittman wasn't at all comparable to Smitty. Hudson was, though.

That to say, if you could time machine Doc and Lou into the same Hawks' teams, you'd at least have a contest.

 

So, it's not really much of one. The first great Oklahoma PG in a Hawks uni plus the second great Michigan State Spartan in a Hawks uni... Mookie+Smitty hands down.

 

Ice+BogBog?

Middle of the pack, both as a duo, and individually.

[AHF]

While we don’t have a time machine, we do have a sense of how people performed relative to their contemporary peers.  Lou and Pete made 8 All-Star teams while in Hawks uniforms and both made All-NBA teams.  Smitty and Mookie made 2 All-Star teams as Hawks (and for their careers) and neither was All-NBA either for the Hawks or elsewhere.  Mookie did make some Defense teams to his credit.

Petit and Hagan are our only Hawks pair that were contenders so the lack of contender status doesn’t do much to differentiate any of these teams — unless Trae and Bogi can take us there!

[bird_dirt]

LOL at allowing Teague anywhere near this list. 

[bird_dirt]

Wu Tang is for the children, I'm for the children. Teach them well and let them them lead the way.

Ice Bog FTW.

 

[Spud2nique]

Wonder how a Mookie/JJ backcourt would have worked? Or a Trae/ Smitty? Mix n match everything is $2.. sorry I was buying candy earlier  

[bleachkit]

I enjoyed those old highlights. Hawks have a proud, rich tradition in the back court.

[Thomas]

Impact wise it is Mookie and Smitty for me. Watching and enjoying the Pistol and Lou play did not sway me to believe the Hawks would make it to the big series with them. One winning season with that combo though it was a good one. Got out of the first round and looked pretty good against the Celts. Both players gave up too much on D and really Pete was just consistently awful on that end. If either went cold for five minutes we were dead in the water. Remembering both cats went cold at different times during a series against the Knicks one year and it was so painful. Yeah back in those days a losing record often was enough to get you into postseason but am glad it gave us more Hawk games to watch.  

[Thomas]

55 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Got out of the first round and looked pretty good against the Celts.

So I went looking back at that year of the Hawks and that year was before the best of three playoff first round stuff. So we did not make it out of a first round after all. My bad memory on that because was remembering us taking the Bullets in best of three one year. 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

Both players gave up too much on D and really Pete was just consistently awful on that end. If either went cold for five minutes we were dead in the water. Remembering both cats went cold at different times during a series against the Knicks one year and it was so painful.

Deep stuff sir Thom. You don’t find this stuff if you hadn’t watched the games. Thanks for dropping the 411 on us. 

[Spud2nique]

46 minutes ago, Thomas said:

My bad memory

Shame on you T. I’m sorry we can’t give you a pass on not remembering what happened more than half a century ago. Please turn in your Hawk fan card before you exit stage left. 

[Thomas]

21 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Deep stuff sir Thom. You don’t find this stuff if you hadn’t watched the games. Thanks for dropping the 411 on us. 

Sorry if I made it more negative than intended but was trying to be honest. Believe me I loved watching the offense of Maravich but knew more and more back then it wasn't gonna be near enough. You know how physical it was back then in clips no doubt so imagine you get my line of thinking here. Another example that I saw so often was against Tiny of KC at the time, Pistol would score thirty but Tiny would score maybe twenty five and have a ton of assists and then a few clutch steals. Guess against who. So it was all fun to watch and a big part of our history but view it more as PR than big time winning. 

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Sorry if I made it more negative than intended

Not I was sincerely thanking you for almost taking us courtside to that era. I was saying you can’t find the stuff you speak of in some random stat book. I love your stuff T. Maybe my remark wasn’t well stated. I was complimenting you.

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Not I was sincerely thanking you for almost taking us courtside to that era. I was saying you can’t find the stuff you speak of in some random stat book. I love your stuff T. Maybe my remark wasn’t well stated. I was complimenting you.

Thanks cat. I will try to improve the accuracy of the random memories but absolutely no promises for obvious reasons right?

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

I will try to improve the accuracy of the random memories but absolutely no promises for obvious reasons right?

Uh....what were we talking about again?

[Final_quest]

For real.  I didn’t know Thomas went back that far.  I thought I was old!  
We need a championship for the old guys to have that joy once in their life.  Let’s get it done!  

[AHF]

12 hours ago, Thomas said:

Impact wise it is Mookie and Smitty for me. Watching and enjoying the Pistol and Lou play did not sway me to believe the Hawks would make it to the big series with them. One winning season with that combo though it was a good one. Got out of the first round and looked pretty good against the Celts. Both players gave up too much on D and really Pete was just consistently awful on that end. If either went cold for five minutes we were dead in the water. Remembering both cats went cold at different times during a series against the Knicks one year and it was so painful. Yeah back in those days a losing record often was enough to get you into postseason but am glad it gave us more Hawk games to watch.  

The one thing I’ll say in their defense is that Mookie and Smitty don’t achieve what they did for the Hawks without Dikembe and I hate to acknowledge Laettner.  Good case to be made that Deke was the best guy among that group.  Put a guy like Mutombo with the oldies backcourt and it would make a big difference.  
 

With the smaller league size it cut both ways.  League expansion meant more people to compete against for those All-NBA spots but doesn’t actually change that calculus very much.  Those All-NBA players would be the ones you’d be competing against regardless of league size - the elite rise to the top.  More NBA teams means the best guys get spread thinner among those rosters.  Look at how deep some of the competitors the Hawks would have to beat in the 1971-72 season to win a ring were for these guys:

Lakers - Wilt, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Gail Goodrich

Celtics - Havlicek, Cowens, Jo-Jo White, Paul Silas, Don Chaney, Don Nelson

Bucks - Kareem, Oscar Robertson, 4x AS Bob Dandridge

Knicks - Walt Frazier, Willis Reed, Bill Bradley, Earl the Pearl Monroe, Dave Debusscherre, Jerry Lucas

The Hawks had their backcourt and then not the same level of talent.  Probably next best that season was Walt Bellamy and he was 6 years removed from his last AS appearance.  That smaller group of teams meant the stars were more clustered than if there had been 30 teams spreading the talent around.  You can’t ignore the expansion of the talent pool with international play but there is a give and take with the expansion diluting the quality of rosters.  (Simple math to say that the best 100 players will be in the league regardless and so being spread across 30 teams rather than 16 leads to more roster filler.)
 

I share some of the criticism for Maravich as a bit of a sideshow but he could still play and I do think Hudson was a stud who could have won much bigger with a more competitive total team.  

[Thomas]

11 hours ago, AHF said:

akers - Wilt, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Gail Goodrich

Celtics - Havlicek, Cowens, Jo-Jo White, Paul Silas, Don Chaney, Don Nelson

Bucks - Kareem, Oscar Robertson, 4x AS Bob Dandridge

Knicks - Walt Frazier, Willis Reed, Bill Bradley, Earl the Pearl Monroe, Dave Debusscherre, Jerry Lucas

That was the hill that couldn't be climbed but did think we had a shot against the Green. When Westphal came onboard it was a bigger problem for us than I expected though. Balanced them out perfectly even though he was young. Consistently we had to hit not just big from twenty feet but had to hit just about every clutch shot and it was just too much for us to cover.

So I didn't even answer to the OP question really. Think Trae and Bogi are an incomplete for now though am enjoying the heck out of them. If healthy it will be a fun comparison of four years of our backcourt now versus the four years of Pete/Lou back then.