John Collins vs Josh SMITH vs Paul MillSAP vs...?

[909]

Who is the better player?

[sillent]

I did not see this post but great minds think alike. Skill wise JC has the edge. Talent wise J Smoove had the edge.

Skill usually always catches up to talent but talent can be so fun to watch and deadly when there's a mixture of both.

I think John's skill will exceed Josh's talent although I do think Josh was the more balanced talented player. When you can stuff the stat sheets in all 5 categories Pts, Stls, Rebs, Blks and Assist you're definitely a high impact player. At the same time JC is such a high efficiency player and so consistent that he's a very big impact to winning as well. Probably even more so than Josh.

Josh would be ridiculous with this team (as we'll see in glimpses with Jalen Johnson) but he only averaged 20 and 10 or close to it one season I believe and he of course didn't have the consistent 3 that JC posses which is a big part of today's game.

We might just see the best version of Josh in Jalen Johnson and hopefully we keep Collins. If so we can see that debate with a similar type player to Josh in real time.

 

[Diesel]

The way I see it...  JC is the more effecient offensive player.   Better three point shooter.  Better decision maker...  But JSmoove played defense at levels much higher than JC,    Not just Blocks but steals.   And Positional defense.   Rebounds.   But...  it still comes down to decision making and as he entered into what should have been his prime, JSmoove's decision making would lose games. 

JC vs. Millsap please...

[nathan2331]

The lack of shooting from Smoove makes Collins the better player.

[capstone21]

Jc … smith was an athlete but had extremely low bbiq 

[sillent]

25 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The way I see it...  JC is the more effecient offensive player.   Better three point shooter.  Better decision maker...  But JSmoove played defense at levels much higher than JC,    Not just Blocks but steals.   And Positional defense.   Rebounds.   But...  it still comes down to decision making and as he entered into what should have been his prime, JSmoove's decision making would lose games. 

JC vs. Millsap please...

JC beat Millsap coming in the door. Millsap was a gem for us don't get me wrong but it's another case of skill vs talent. JC has arguably more skill than Sap compared to his age and definitely more talent. 

I'd let Millsap go 1000's over JC. I can't necessarily say the same if it was Smoove but you're right ultimately Smoove declined in his prime. JC is already primed to be better as he ages because of his skillsets.

[bleachkit]

Check back in 5 years. 

[Peoriabird]

JC easily

[NBASupes]

At the same stage. It's close. Smoove flashed very good once but has never been consistent ever in his career. JC been solid and been good this year. 

[Cwell]

Smoove was an incredibly dumb player that played to his weaknesses . Collins is the complete opposite, so Collins

[Spud2nique]

Collins. 
 

ps I have a Smoove jersey, home white. 
 

Smoove was a breath of fresh air for us back then because we were coming off of guys like Lee Nailon and Chris Crawford. 
 

Smoove had 2 things on Collins. Pure raw athleticism and swatting shots. When Smoove was in his rookie year and I watched the games sometimes the most exciting thing I looked forward to was Smoove’s blocks. Remember he had 9 or so against Dirk and the Mavs in Atlanta his rookie or second year. We’ve come a long way as a franchise. We never had a superstar till Trae it’s crazy.

[niremetal]

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Smoove was a breath of fresh air for us back then because we were coming off of guys like Lee Nailon and Chris Crawford.

Why you hatin' on my boy? 

[dalamchops]

josh lacked discipline, woodson just let him do whatever the hell he wanted and developed terrible habits. With coach bud/nate i think they really would've tapped into his talents.

[JayBirdHawk]

Josh had million dollar talent but a 10 cent head.  And had too many enablers. I don't get the comparison.

[Diesel]

10 hours ago, sillent said:

JC beat Millsap coming in the door. Millsap was a gem for us don't get me wrong but it's another case of skill vs talent. JC has arguably more skill than Sap compared to his age and definitely more talent. 

I'd let Millsap go 1000's over JC. I can't necessarily say the same if it was Smoove but you're right ultimately Smoove declined in his prime. JC is already primed to be better as he ages because of his skillsets.

Not so fast my friend.

JC only has the edge in 3 pt shooting.   And depending on what year you consider, that's only by a little.   Sap = Better rebounder.  Sap = Better Passer (by a mile).   Sap = Better defender. (About 2 spg)

We love JC... but let's not overstate what he does well.   It's just scoring and being a 40% three point shooter.   Everything else is average and defensively.. close to below average. 

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Not so fast my friend.

JC only has the edge in 3 pt shooting.   And depending on what year you consider, that's only by a little.   Sap = Better rebounder.  Sap = Better Passer (by a mile).   Sap = Better defender. (About 2 spg)

We love JC... but let's not overstate what he does well.   It's just scoring and being a 40% three point shooter.   Everything else is average and defensively.. close to below average. 

Sap was also like 28 years old but no he wasn't a better rebounder than JC nor was he a better scorer.

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Sap was also like 28 years old but no he wasn't a better rebounder than JC nor was he a better scorer.

Per Game Table

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	John Collins	2020-21	23	63	63	29.3	6.8	12.2	.556	1.3	3.3	.399	5.5	8.9	.615	.610	2.7	3.2	.833	1.9	5.5	7.4	1.2	0.5	1.0	1.3	3.1	17.6
2	Paul Millsap	2013-14	28	74	73	33.5	6.5	14.1	.461	1.0	2.9	.358	5.5	11.3	.487	.498	3.9	5.3	.731	2.1	6.4	8.5	3.1	1.7	1.1	2.5	2.8	17.9

Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
Generated 8/4/2021.

 

The numbers are what they are. Sap was much better at passing and playing defense. The rebounding could be a wash and yes John is a better scorer... but I would also say that John plays with a much better PG too.

[AHF]

7 hours ago, Cwell said:

Smoove was an incredibly dumb player that played to his weaknesses . Collins is the complete opposite, so Collins

This.  Had Smoove played to his strengths like he did in the 2009-10 season, it would be close with JC blowing away Smoove's peak scoring efficiency but not nearly as impactful on defense.  Under that paradigm, Josh Smith would have the edge for me granting that we are talking about JC at age 23 and don't know how much future improvement could come for him.  The problem is that Josh self-destructed his own career by moving away from that to emphasizing an absolute weakness in his jump shot and that bad IQ became an increasingly more significant element of his game (seeing him not get back on defense to complain about calls, etc.).  I have to assume he would do the same if we had the chance to switch out JC for him.

So it is an easy call for me to take JC over Smoove.  Not particularly close. 

[NBASupes]

7 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Collins. 
 

ps I have a Smoove jersey, home white. 
 

Smoove was a breath of fresh air for us back then because we were coming off of guys like Lee Nailon and Chris Crawford. 
 

Smoove had 2 things on Collins. Pure raw athleticism and swatting shots. When Smoove was in his rookie year and I watched the games sometimes the most exciting thing I looked forward to was Smoove’s blocks. Remember he had 9 or so against Dirk and the Mavs in Atlanta his rookie or second year. We’ve come a long way as a franchise. We never had a superstar till Trae it’s crazy.

Smoove had a lot on JC. That said, we never had to question JCs consistency or his ability to do what he does best unlike Smoove.

[Peoriabird]

19 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Per Game Table

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	John Collins	2020-21	23	63	63	29.3	6.8	12.2	.556	1.3	3.3	.399	5.5	8.9	.615	.610	2.7	3.2	.833	1.9	5.5	7.4	1.2	0.5	1.0	1.3	3.1	17.6
2	Paul Millsap	2013-14	28	74	73	33.5	6.5	14.1	.461	1.0	2.9	.358	5.5	11.3	.487	.498	3.9	5.3	.731	2.1	6.4	8.5	3.1	1.7	1.1	2.5	2.8	17.9

Provided by Stathead.com: View Stathead Tool Used
Generated 8/4/2021.

 

The numbers are what they are. Sap was much better at passing and playing defense. The rebounding could be a wash and yes John is a better scorer... but I would also say that John plays with a much better PG too.

LOL!  You cherry picked 1 season from each to make a comparison??  John has 2 seasons were he averaged over 9.8 rpg.  Sap only had 1 season out of 15 where he averaged at least 9 rpg. and no it wasn't in his 1st 3 season as a pro like John.