Jalen Johnson may be better than De'Andre Hunter and Cam Reddish

[NBASupes]

25 minutes ago, AHF said:

Hunter definitely should not be thrown into the garbage but I'm also totally not sold on running plays for him as the #1 option except as an occasional mixup.  I don't think he has the handles among other skills to be a #1 option.

Note that I also don't think he needs to be a number 1 option to be successful here.

I never was high on Hunter offensively and never will be because even though he's a 3 level scorer who make make open 3s, his hands are weak, handles are weaker, his vision is horrendous and his passing has always been average at best. I don't know if it's fair to expect him to be more than a 4th or 5th option on a contender. 

That said, I am 100% sold on his defensive value, especially for the modern NBA. He was huge at times last night on Jimmy and Bam. He guarded every position last night. How many big wings can do that effectively, not many, maybe Kawhi. 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

DeAndre Hunter is a baller.  The problem is how he has been utilized offensively. You have to run plays with him as the number 1 option in the low post and wing.  Jalen does have much more upside but you don't toss DeAndre Hunter into the can.  I like Jalen's passing ability and I his rebounding.  Both are exceptional.  You can run your entire offense through him as a point forward.

You got to understand that this board is way more offensive minded than defensive minded as many message boards are. To them, struggling offensively is a criminal offense. Whereas they don't necessarily value good defense. They may value turnovers and highlight plays but possession by possession defense is very difficult for your average fan. Even more difficult understanding assignments and what's the coverage. These are things Quin and his staff as well as other staffs see that our fans and fans in general may struggle with. 

 

Even Quin and others are watching tape and games multiple times and understanding what they want to see 

Edited April 12, 2023 by NBASupes

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I never was high on Hunter offensively and never will be because even though he's a 3 level scorer who make make open 3s, his hands are weak, handles are weaker, his vision is horrendous and his passing has always been average at best. I don't know if it's fair to expect him to be more than a 4th or 5th option on a contender. 

That said, I am 100% sold on his defensive value, especially for the modern NBA. He was huge at times last night on Jimmy and Bam. He guarded every position last night. How many big wings can do that effectively, not many, maybe Kawhi. 

He provides his real value to us on defense and is more of a "keep them honest" player on offense, IMO.  He can make teams pay somewhat for leaving him alone (ala his performance versus Miami last post-season) but we are in trouble if he is anything close to the #1 option for us with any regularity.  I would hope that he continues to improve on offense but he is fungible there whereas he is a key part of our defensive identity.

[Wretch]

3 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

[NBASupes]

35 minutes ago, Wretch said:

I hate to blame Nate for him. He really struggled with most pairings till Bey came. Bey ability to be a 4 on defense really helped JJ who was able to Unlock his perimeter D and his shooting is rough and Bey can really space it like Kevin so it opened up the floor offensively for JJ. Bey for JJ is like Horford for Smoove.

[macdaddy]

11 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I hate to blame Nate for him. He really struggled with most pairings till Bey came. Bey ability to be a 4 on defense really helped JJ who was able to Unlock his perimeter D and his shooting is rough and Bey can really space it like Kevin so it opened up the floor offensively for JJ. Bey for JJ is like Horford for Smoove.

It's encouraging though that we can expect playmaking from other positions besides guard to be part of the offense under Quin.   I think when JJ is a fully formed player it's his passing and playmaking ability that will be the most impressive.   Of course he has elite athleticism too so that's a fun combo. 

[Wretch]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I hate to blame Nate for him. He really struggled with most pairings till Bey came. Bey ability to be a 4 on defense really helped JJ who was able to Unlock his perimeter D and his shooting is rough and Bey can really space it like Kevin so it opened up the floor offensively for JJ. Bey for JJ is like Horford for Smoove.

Yeah...he struggled like hell in all 3 of those games last year... lol 

Jokes aside, Nate barely understood what to do with the veteran players he had.  He certainly didn't have the patience or creativity to develop Jalen.  I don't blame him for JJ's faults.  I do blame him for JJ's wasted rookie season.

[bird_dirt]

On 4/7/2023 at 9:24 PM, NBASupes said:

Smoove couldn't guard 3s

Are you saying JJ can?

 

Edit: NM. You have stated he can guard 3s, but offensively he’s a 4 not 3. 
 

Sorry. 
 

I still think he could play at the 3, but just an opinion. Maybe not, but he’s something special regardless. Happy he’s in Atlanta with Quin. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by bird_dirt

[bird_dirt]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I hate to blame Nate for him. He really struggled with most pairings till Bey came. Bey ability to be a 4 on defense really helped JJ who was able to Unlock his perimeter D and his shooting is rough and Bey can really space it like Kevin so it opened up the floor offensively for JJ. Bey for JJ is like Horford for Smoove.

I don’t mind blaming Nate. Dude coached from stone tablets.
Despite any struggles JJ had, you could still see how special he could be in his very limited time. Nate really screwed the pooch not doing more to cultivate what was trying to grow in his garden. I don’t care who he was paired with, he was doing things that many couldn’t and his mistakes were often typical mistakes that come from a youthful lack of experience. 

[NBASupes]

57 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Are you saying JJ can?

 

Edit: NM. You have stated he can guard 3s, but offensively he’s a 4 not 3. 
 

Sorry. 
 

I still think he could play at the 3, but just an opinion. Maybe not, but he’s something special regardless. Happy he’s in Atlanta with Quin. 

I think he has the upside to develop into a multi position defender who can defend 2 and 3 and maybe at some point, 1s. His lateral mobility is impressive. It's understanding and experience that he needs at this stage but he's growing and fast. 

Yeah, he has no ability to be a 3 offensively. His shooting is below average and first step is really bad for a 3. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

12 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

DeAndre Hunter is a baller.  The problem is how he has been utilized offensively. You have to run plays with him as the number 1 option in the low post and wing.  Jalen does have much more upside but you don't toss DeAndre Hunter into the can.  I like Jalen's passing ability and I his rebounding.  Both are exceptional.  You can run your entire offense through him as a point forward.

 

LOL . . he didn't even get that at Virginia.  But you want him to get that on a NBA team?

What happens when Dre becomes the #1, but people start to double him?  Does he have the ability to make the correct pass to an open man?  And if he does, why is he averaging less than 1.5 assists per game for his career?  For as many minutes as he plays, that's almost impossible to do, unless he shoots the ball almost every time he gets it, and doesn't look to pass to anyone.

Dre Hunter is Marvin 2.0.  His game is solid enough for him to play a good 10 - 15 years.  Marvin was able to play for 15 years. And even then, he was only 34 when people stopped adding him to NBA rosters.

But Dre is NOT an impactful player.  You can visibly see the impact that Bey makes in a game.  You rarely see that from Hunter, unless he's stringing together a bunch of shots.

The last thing this organization needs to do, is believe that De'Andre Hunter is NOT expendable. He can easily be replaced.  His skill set in any area of his game is not so great, that it can't be replaced.

I will still root for the guy and hope he makes a tangible impact in this next series. 

 

But I'm not holding my breath for it.  Because if I do, I might pass out from lack of oxygen.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, bird_dirt said:

I don’t mind blaming Nate. Dude coached from stone tablets.
Despite any struggles JJ had, you could still see how special he could be in his very limited time. Nate really screwed the pooch not doing more to cultivate what was trying to grow in his garden. I don’t care who he was paired with, he was doing things that many couldn’t and his mistakes were often typical mistakes that come from a youthful lack of experience. 

Exactly this. Has nothing to do with his pairing with Bey.  Nate had JJ camped at the 3 point line. He did not allow him any mistakes and didn't coach him thru his mistakes. Quin is giving him the freedom to play to his strengths.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You got to understand that this board is way more offensive minded than defensive minded as many message boards are. To them, struggling offensively is a criminal offense. Whereas they don't necessarily value good defense. They may value turnovers and highlight plays but possession by possession defense is very difficult for your average fan. Even more difficult understanding assignments and what's the coverage. These are things Quin and his staff as well as other staffs see that our fans and fans in general may struggle with. 

 

Even Quin and others are watching tape and games multiple times and understanding what they want to see 

 

It's the lack of impact type plays from Dre, that we're down on.  Almost every single one of his offensive AND defensive metrics are sub par. There's a reason for that.

• The Hawks defense does not improve dramatically when he's in the game
• The Hawks offense does not improve dramatically when he's in the game
• He makes very few energy type plays
• He doesn't make positive offensive plays, unless he's scoring the ball, because he's a poor rebounder and facilitator

But we're the stupid ones for not seeing Dre's value?

Where is the value?

Where is the value?

 

Where is the value?

 

Where's the value?

 

Is this the value?

 

This is not a dumb fan base Supes.  We see what we see every night.

Dre is a solid AVERAGE player who gives us mediocre game impact on a nightly basis.  If his shot isn't falling, you may as well sit him on the bench, because

• He's not going to provide you with hustle plays
• He's not going to shut down his man
• And he's not going to impact the game with timely passing.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I hate to blame Nate for him. He really struggled with most pairings till Bey came. Bey ability to be a 4 on defense really helped JJ who was able to Unlock his perimeter D and his shooting is rough and Bey can really space it like Kevin so it opened up the floor offensively for JJ. Bey for JJ is like Horford for Smoove.

 

Not true.

I specifically pointed out how well Jalen was playing with his bench minutes even before we made the Bey trade.  Jalen has been playing well since early January.

[NBASupes]

31 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

LOL . . he didn't even get that at Virginia.  But you want him to get that on a NBA team?

What happens when Dre becomes the #1, but people start to double him?  Does he have the ability to make the correct pass to an open man?  And if he does, why is he averaging less than 1.5 assists per game for his career?  For as many minutes as he plays, that's almost impossible to do, unless he shoots the ball almost every time he gets it, and doesn't look to pass to anyone.

Dre Hunter is Marvin 2.0.  His game is solid enough for him to play a good 10 - 15 years.  Marvin was able to play for 15 years. And even then, he was only 34 when people stopped adding him to NBA rosters.

But Dre is NOT an impactful player.  You can visibly see the impact that Bey makes in a game.  You rarely see that from Hunter, unless he's stringing together a bunch of shots.

The last thing this organization needs to do, is believe that De'Andre Hunter is NOT expendable. He can easily be replaced.  His skill set in any area of his game is not so great, that it can't be replaced.

I will still root for the guy and hope he makes a tangible impact in this next series. 

 

But I'm not holding my breath for it.  Because if I do, I might pass out from lack of oxygen.

This post is bad. And wrong

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Not true.

I specifically pointed out how well Jalen was playing with his bench minutes even before we made the Bey trade.  Jalen has been playing well since early January.

He's playing with morevconfidence because of Quin.

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Not true.

I specifically pointed out how well Jalen was playing with his bench minutes even before we made the Bey trade.  Jalen has been playing well since early January.

He was productive but his +/- units were all bad even then. He wasn't a fit with any unit. He wasn't awful like Justin was but he wasn't effective. It was also a lot of up and down play on both ends. Bey trade definitely is when we seen everything come together. Especially his fit with Trae. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by NBASupes

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This post is bad. And wrong

 

Prove it.

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

It's the lack of impact type plays from Dre, that we're down on.  Almost every single one of his offensive AND defensive metrics are sub par. There's a reason for that.

• The Hawks defense does not improve dramatically when he's in the game
• The Hawks offense does not improve dramatically when he's in the game
• He makes very few energy type plays
• He doesn't make positive offensive plays, unless he's scoring the ball, because he's a poor rebounder and facilitator

But we're the stupid ones for not seeing Dre's value?

Where is the value?

Where is the value?

 

Where is the value?

 

Where's the value?

 

Is this the value?

 

This is not a dumb fan base Supes.  We see what we see every night.

Dre is a solid AVERAGE player who gives us mediocre game impact on a nightly basis.  If his shot isn't falling, you may as well sit him on the bench, because

• He's not going to provide you with hustle plays
• He's not going to shut down his man
• And he's not going to impact the game with timely passing.

This post is trash and very wrong. 

Just now, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Prove it.

Easily but for what. You don't listen and you are wrong so why should I?

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This post is bad. And wrong

Can you explain why All/Most of his metrics are what they are?