Now that we're going to be in the Tax in 2022 - (a primer for our tax discussions going forward)

[macdaddy]

we don't have to pay the tax yet.  I still say we're cheap and avoiding the tax.  Going 200k into isn't a sign to me that we aren't avoiding it. we'll see by the end of the year.   

[thecampster]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

we don't have to pay the tax yet.  I still say we're cheap and avoiding the tax.  Going 200k into isn't a sign to me that we aren't avoiding it. we'll see by the end of the year.   

$200k with 2 players to sign for a full roster is.  After those 2 minimum contract players are signed in, you'll be $3 - $4 million into the cap minimum. 

[thecampster]

[Mikey]

42 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I mean still no guarantee they are a tax team when the season ends. They have expirings they can offload during the season

[AHF]

On 7/19/2022 at 1:39 PM, thecampster said:

These numbers include roster charges for any open slots, right?

I still think the Hawks get under before the deadline.  Harkless replaced by a lower $$ guy means the Hawks avoid the tax.  Second round pick to facilitate.

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

These numbers include roster charges for any open slots, right?

I still think the Hawks get under before the deadline.  Harkless replaced by a lower $$ guy means the Hawks avoid the tax.  Second round pick to facilitate.

We have 14. There's no roster charges at 14.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

We have 14. There's no roster charges at 14.

So actually very easy for us to get under the tax line.

[thecampster]

They're gonna add another body at probably a 1.76 million charge....or a partial to full MLE deal.  The only way we're getting under the MLE is if we're not contending and we're selling at the trade deadline. I don't want to think about that.

 

[AHF]

11 hours ago, thecampster said:

They're gonna add another body at probably a 1.76 million charge....or a partial to full MLE deal.  The only way we're getting under the MLE is if we're not contending and we're selling at the trade deadline. I don't want to think about that.

 

What is the MLE that we are unlikely to get under?  Are you talking about the tax threshold?

I agree with you that we are extremely unlikely to get under the tax line if we sign someone to a mid-level exception deal.  I don't expect that to happen.  I expect us to make sure we are staying close to the line unless and until there is a major addition to the roster (not a Moe Harkless type of end of the roster fodder) so that we can pull a deal to get under the line without impacting the substance of our roster.

I guess we'll see where the roster is as we head into training camp.  As a fan, I hope you are correct.

[thecampster]

16 minutes ago, AHF said:

What is the MLE that we are unlikely to get under?  Are you talking about the tax threshold?

I agree with you that we are extremely unlikely to get under the tax line if we sign someone to a mid-level exception deal.  I don't expect that to happen.  I expect us to make sure we are staying close to the line unless and until there is a major addition to the roster (not a Moe Harkless type of end of the roster fodder) so that we can pull a deal to get under the line without impacting the substance of our roster.

I guess we'll see where the roster is as we head into training camp.  As a fan, I hope you are correct.

Exceptions available to us to use.

We still have the taxpayer MLE available and 1 slot to fill.  We also have the ability to move Harkless for an asset. Those are separate things.  There are a number of vets out there worth the full MLE and this is still a possibility they use the full amount (or partial). Harkless is an expiring at the end of this year. There is no incentive for us to trade Harkless unless its for a roster upgrade on a longer term. He won't be dumped because next July 1st its a dump anyway. That said, the Harkless salary is $4.645 million.  If we add another $1.7 million salary hit to get to 15 players (I expect it), then Harkless out, nothing in gets us there.  Harkless out and any vet in will keep us over the LT if even for a little once the 15th salary is added.

[AHF]

8 hours ago, thecampster said:

Exceptions available to us to use.

We still have the taxpayer MLE available and 1 slot to fill.  We also have the ability to move Harkless for an asset. Those are separate things.  There are a number of vets out there worth the full MLE and this is still a possibility they use the full amount (or partial). Harkless is an expiring at the end of this year. There is no incentive for us to trade Harkless unless its for a roster upgrade on a longer term. He won't be dumped because next July 1st its a dump anyway. That said, the Harkless salary is $4.645 million.  If we add another $1.7 million salary hit to get to 15 players (I expect it), then Harkless out, nothing in gets us there.  Harkless out and any vet in will keep us over the LT if even for a little once the 15th salary is added.

I get that we could use the full MLE.  I guess I'm just not convinced we will.  If we do then I jump aboard your bandwagon.

What confused me on the MLE was this statement:

Quote

The only way we're getting under the MLE is if we're not contending

I kind of assumed you were talking about the tax line but if it means something to get under the MLE I'm not familiar with it.  

I'll have to see us add another guaranteed contract before I'm convinced we aren't simply planning to cut down to 14 salaries and swap Harkless for a contract worth 3.36M or less to push us under the tax line.

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

I get that we could use the full MLE.  I guess I'm just not convinced we will.  If we do then I jump aboard your bandwagon.

What confused me on the MLE was this statement:

I kind of assumed you were talking about the tax line but if it means something to get under the MLE I'm not familiar with it.  

I'll have to see us add another guaranteed contract before I'm convinced we aren't simply planning to cut down to 14 salaries and swap Harkless for a contract worth 3.36M or less to push us under the tax line.

I think he meant get under the Luxury Tax. 

[thecampster]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

I get that we could use the full MLE.  I guess I'm just not convinced we will.  If we do then I jump aboard your bandwagon.

What confused me on the MLE was this statement:

I kind of assumed you were talking about the tax line but if it means something to get under the MLE I'm not familiar with it.  

I'll have to see us add another guaranteed contract before I'm convinced we aren't simply planning to cut down to 14 salaries and swap Harkless for a contract worth 3.36M or less to push us under the tax line.

yah mistype

[Gray Mule]

A new worry!  How long has it been since these Atlanta Hawks had to worry and fret about paying this tax?  We must believe that we are going to be contenders if we have this to fret over.  Because we are so close to the tax line on our payroll, we should be able to overcome this small problem, don't you think?

[JayBirdHawk]

Value of franchises skyrocketing:

 

 

A new study projects the NBA will be worth $115.9 billion (U.S.) in five years, a whopping 56% more than in 2021. That’s an average of $3.9 billion per team. Onlinecasino.ca analyzed each team’s valuation and revenue data from 2012-2021 to compile The Richest NBA Teams by 2027 list.

 

– via Postmedia News @ Toronto Sun

 Business, Media, Owners

 

 

The study picks the Golden State Warriors, New York Knicks and Los Angeles Lakers as the three richest NBA teams by 2027 in valuation and revenue. The Memphis Grizzlies, New Orleans Pelicans and Minnesota Timberwolves are predicted to be the least valuable teams. The Orlando Magic, Milwaukee Bucks and Detroit Pistons are predicted to be the lowest revenue earning teams by 2027.

 

– via Postmedia News @ Toronto Sun

 Business, Media, Owners, Detroit Pistons, Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Lakers, Memphis Grizzlies, Milwaukee Bucks, Minnesota Timberwolves, New Orleans Pelicans, New York Knicks, Orlando Magic

 

 

New streaming rights are expected to bring in tons of money for the NBA and the league’s television contracts with ESPN and Turner Sports (which will pay them $24 billion in total), end after the 2024-25 season. It’s expected by most pundits that the next television and rights deal will pay the NBA at least double and possibly triple the $24 billion (the NFL, the most popular sport in the U.S., got $113 billion), raising the value of franchises significantly.

 

– via Postmedia News @ Toronto Sun

[Final_quest]

10 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Value of franchises skyrocketing:

 

 

A new study projects the NBA will be worth $115.9 billion (U.S.) in five years, a whopping 56% more than in 2021. That’s an average of $3.9 billion per team. Onlinecasino.ca analyzed each team’s valuation and revenue data from 2012-2021 to compile The Richest NBA Teams by 2027 list.

 

– via Postmedia News @ Toronto Sun

 Business, Media, Owners

 

 

The study picks the Golden State Warriors, New York Knicks and Los Angeles Lakers as the three richest NBA teams by 2027 in valuation and revenue. The Memphis Grizzlies, New Orleans Pelicans and Minnesota Timberwolves are predicted to be the least valuable teams. The Orlando Magic, Milwaukee Bucks and Detroit Pistons are predicted to be the lowest revenue earning teams by 2027.

 

– via Postmedia News @ Toronto Sun

 Business, Media, Owners, Detroit Pistons, Golden State Warriors, Los Angeles Lakers, Memphis Grizzlies, Milwaukee Bucks, Minnesota Timberwolves, New Orleans Pelicans, New York Knicks, Orlando Magic

 

 

New streaming rights are expected to bring in tons of money for the NBA and the league’s television contracts with ESPN and Turner Sports (which will pay them $24 billion in total), end after the 2024-25 season. It’s expected by most pundits that the next television and rights deal will pay the NBA at least double and possibly triple the $24 billion (the NFL, the most popular sport in the U.S., got $113 billion), raising the value of franchises significantly.

 

– via Postmedia News @ Toronto Sun

A new thought on why the Hawks get so much less love than the top valued franchises.  Seeing New Orleans and Memphis on the list, reminded me of which region we are in.  You have to travel to San Francisco, LA, and New York to really understand just how low of an opinion they have of fly over country, but particularly the south.  Even though Atlanta has a much different reputation than rural parts of the south, we are still guilty by association.  They see fly over country as leaches to their success, but the south is the bottom feeder of all the territory in fly over country.  We are the dumbest, lowest class, and most backwards in our values.    

The average joe in NY or LA might have a more gentle opinion of the south or even fondness of the south, but not the media.  I would be curious to see the bios of the media professionals that work for TNT and CNN.  My hunch is that even though they are based in Atlanta the core of the decision makers are not life long southerners, but mostly graduates of northeast universities.  It's why you won't see Atlanta sports getting additional love from entities based in Atlanta is because there is a resentment from the media professionals who came here as a career move but actually see the people here and the city as beneath them.  They are content to give us Nascar and NCAA football, but they aren't giving us the NBA.  Since they control the narrative they see it as their responsibility to reward correct thinking from cities and regions that share their values.  

All this being said, it is a factor.  Maybe not THE factor, but it's part of why Atlanta doesn't get much love in sports reporting.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

The average joe in NY or LA might have a more gentle opinion of the south or even fondness of the south, but not the media. 

I love y’all, I’m not your average Joe more like your average Mookie Blaylock. 

 

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

They are content to give us Nascar and NCAA football, but they aren't giving us the NBA. 

Well we TAKING MLB. The Braves are gonna be a problem for a looooong time. 

[NBASupes]

So the reality is, most of these teams are getting a clean slate in 2025.

[JayBirdHawk]

On 6/26/2022 at 1:54 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

It's going to be very difficult for the Hawks to take an 'avoid the Luxury Tax at all cost' approach to the offseason and expect to meet Ressler's demand of getting better than last season.

FYI - just because we begin the season as a Tax Paying team, doesn't mean we'll pay the tax. It's where your roster stands at the end of the season that calculates the tax payment.

(So if we suck and are over the tax, we move players to get under before the season ends.)

Per Ressler:

 

 

Two years ago....another offseason: here we go.

[REHawksFan]

On 10/23/2021 at 5:14 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Our LT situation will also depend on wether we are not just winning but serious contenders for at least the ECF in the coming years.

 

On 4/23/2024 at 9:34 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Two years ago....another offseason: here we go.

Ahh....the blissful ignorance of a simpler time. A time before salary dumps, Holiday experiences, and roster construction nightmares. Looking back at this thread, I was so naive about what was to come. 

ECF contenders you say?....