No love lost between Hawks players

[shakes]

22 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

There's a difference between losing the team and accusing the coach of intentionally undermining the team. If you think he was a bad coach, that's fine. If you think he was actively trying to destroy Trae, that's absolutely  ridiculous. 

Riddle me this Lloyd.  How do you put a positive spin on Pierce's refusal to publicly respond to Steve Nash's "that's not basketball" comments last year?     We all saw what happened league wide to Trae after that.    what possible "good motives" could Pierce have for leaving his star player out to dry like that while his college teammate dragged him through the mud?

 

Love to hear you talk your way out of this one.

[Sothron]

1 minute ago, shakes said:

Riddle me this Lloyd.  How do you put a positive spin on Pierce's refusal to publicly respond to Steve Nash's "that's not basketball" comments last year?     We all saw what happened league wide to Trae after that.    what possible "good motives" could Pierce have for leaving his star player out to dry like that while his college teammate dragged him through the mud?

 

Love to hear you talk your way out of this one.

Well you see Jeffrey Dahmer just wanted to bring the homeless men off the street so they didn't freeze to death. It was MUCH BETTER for them to be murdered while warm. At least they didn't freeze to death, right? 

[AHF]

Just now, shakes said:

Riddle me this Lloyd.  How do you put a positive spin on Pierce's refusal to publicly respond to Steve Nash's "that's not basketball" comments last year?     We all saw what happened league wide to Trae after that.    what possible "good motives" could Pierce have for leaving his star player out to dry like that while his college teammate dragged him through the mud?

 

Love to hear you talk your way out of this one.

He clearly agreed with Nash as he made the same type of comments during the league meetings by going out of his way to call Trae out as a bad actor on this topic.  Normally I'd expect a coach to use other players as his example so I think the fact that LP used Trae and used the word "hate" signals he probably thought Nash was right and wasn't going to go out to the media and lie about it.

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, Sothron said:

You can't be serious. I've watched the NBA since 1979. I played Division III college basketball as a starting point guard. My father coached basketball. I have never heard of a coach telling other coaches not to vote for their team's best player for the ASG let alone telling the USA Olympic team to leave Trae off the roster for such SUPERSTARS like Mason f***ing Plumlee. 

You are clearly trolling, a relative of Pierce or a clown. No coach would ever sabotage his OWN PLAYER and think he was doing it for the player's best interests or the team's best interests. Your saying his heart was in the right place is like saying Jeffrey Dahmer's heart was in the right place, he just wanted to give poor homeless men a place to stay in his house. The fact he killed them later had nothing to do with his intentions. GTFOH.

I don't know why you are personally attacking me but that's a violation of board rules and I suggest you stop. I don't know what exactly was said by CLP, but he's a stand up guy I doubt the claims of nefarious behavior have much merit. I never said he didn't deserve to be fired. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by bleachkit

[Sothron]

Just now, bleachkit said:

I don't why you are personally attacking me but that's a violation of board rules and I suggest you stop. I don't know what exactly was said by CLP, but he's a stand up guy I doubt the claims of nefarious behavior have much merit. I never said he didn't deserve to be fired. 

I am not attacking you. I honestly think you are trolling because no one, literally no one, could possibly believe what you are typing about Pierce the backstabbing ex coach. He is the farthest thing from a stand up guy. I've seen and played for a coach that was a ball busting mean SOB (not my dad just FYI) and he would never, ever stoop to what Pierce did to Trae. Or call Collins "selfish" for wanting to know what his role was on the team. 

If you think I am attacking you personally then I do apologize. I think you are trying to get a rise out of people with these outlandish posts defending our ex-coach that more than deserved to be fired.

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, shakes said:

Riddle me this Lloyd.  How do you put a positive spin on Pierce's refusal to publicly respond to Steve Nash's "that's not basketball" comments last year?     We all saw what happened league wide to Trae after that.    what possible "good motives" could Pierce have for leaving his star player out to dry like that while his college teammate dragged him through the mud?

 

Love to hear you talk your way out of this one.

First of all Steve Nash didn't say that.  He made no comments of the like of any kind ...publicly. Lip reading a coach arguing with a ref is not fair game. Coaches argue with refs, that's their job. If Steve Nash had made those remarks at a press conference however, then yes CLP should have defended Trae in that instance.

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I don't know why you are personally attacking me but that's a violation of board rules and I suggest you stop. I don't know what exactly was said by CLP, but he's a stand up guy I doubt the claims of nefarious behavior have much merit. I never said he didn't deserve to be fired. 

Mod Cap On

Yeah, let's not turn this into a personal issue.  People can have different interpretations of the facts and that doesn't make them trolling and I don't think this is trolling at all.  

It seems to me that at the end of the day that Peo is skeptical of some of the claims but thinks LP did what he did to teach Trae a lesson and that makes it ok (or at least not nefarious).  

Soth doesn't think there was any such "good" motive while others view blasting your own star player as a betrayal even if for "good reasons."

It is ok for posters to see issues differently.  Let's focus on the facts, interpretations, and gaps in knowledge and leave the characterizations of the individual poster alone.  I.e., respond to the post not the poster. 

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I am not attacking you. I honestly think you are trolling because no one, literally no one, could possibly believe what you are typing about Pierce the backstabbing ex coach. He is the farthest thing from a stand up guy. I've seen and played for a coach that was a ball busting mean SOB (not my dad just FYI) and he would never, ever stoop to what Pierce did to Trae. Or call Collins "selfish" for wanting to know what his role was on the team. 

If you think I am attacking you personally then I do apologize. I think you are trying to get a rise out of people with these outlandish posts defending our ex-coach that more than deserved to be fired.

On this one, let's just leave out the assessment of whether bleach is trolling or not (i.e., don't worry about poster motive) and just respond to the points (which presumably you think are unsupported as this is what leads you to the conclusion about trying to get a rise out of people).  With that tweak, the thread should move on smoothly and everyone can have their say.

[Dynamo]

Good Coaches don’t undermine or collude against their players.

[shakes]

46 minutes ago, AHF said:

He clearly agreed with Nash as he made the same type of comments during the league meetings by going out of his way to call Trae out as a bad actor on this topic.  Normally I'd expect a coach to use other players as his example so I think the fact that LP used Trae and used the word "hate" signals he probably thought Nash was right and wasn't going to go out to the media and lie about it.

so he consciously refused to support his star player from an attack from an opposing coach IN BETWEEN back to back games vs the Nets.  And as a result his star player stopped getting calls for a pretty long time which of course greatly affected not just Trae but the entire team including the idiot coach.

 

So you are basically saying that Lloyd Pierce is the single dumbest moron to ever coach a professional sports team.  Let's his own personal bias get in the way of doing his job properly.   As we all know it is coaching 101 to stick up for your player there.  Doesn't matter if you agree with your player or not.   You stick up for your guy no matter what.   

 

your comment actually makes Pierce sound even more incompetent at his job than we previously thought.

[shakes]

50 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I don't know why you are personally attacking me but that's a violation of board rules and I suggest you stop. I don't know what exactly was said by CLP, but he's a stand up guy I doubt the claims of nefarious behavior have much merit. I never said he didn't deserve to be fired. 

Calling Pierce a stand up guy should be a violation of board rules.

[RedDawg#8]

I had no issue with Pierce the person. I thought everything he did off the court was freaking awesome. I was proud to have a coach represent the city and organization like that.

In regards to him as a coach, I did not blame him for the team's performance for his first 2 years. We were young and rebuilding.

With that said, LP was the one who went out and said that our team was good enough to make the playoffs during the 2019-20 season. He was the one who doubled down and pushed those expectations prior to the 20-21 season. He was the one who acknowledged that he would be held accountable and fired one day for the team underperforming. So we can all agree that there was nothing unfair or personal about his treatment and eventual dismissal last year.

In regards to Trae, on more than one occasion, he had the opportunity to stand up for and defend him and he did not. When Trae was snubbed for team USA, Lloyd could have said nothing at all, but he decided to support the decision for guys like Barnes and Plumlee to be chosen instead over him.  Saying Trae had not earned the honor. 

 https://clutchpoints.com/hawks-news-lloyd-pierce-reacts-to-trae-young-being-left-off-olympic-roster/

Mind you, this is the list of 44 finalists that were chosen before Trae that year. LP was okay with Derrick White at PG before Trae? He was fine with Javale McGee, Kuzma, Plumlee over John Collins?

https://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2020/02/men-olympic-finalists.aspx'

LP had an inside track to promote his best players and allow them the opportunity experience international basketball and he sat on his hands and chose the tough love route instead. Meanwhile Pop was allowed to give their spots to his own guys like Derrick White and Keldon Johnson the following year. So it was obvious that being ready and "EARNING" it were not requirements for team USA, just for LP's guys because that's how HE wanted to bring them along.

Pierce is a smart man. He should know how important it is to have a strong relationship with your best player(s). We all know how bad Trae has been getting snubbed and dragged throughout his career so far. Trae doesn't complain much publicly, though he may throw shade on twitter from time to time. It would have been nice for his head coach to go to bar for him instead of being a bystander or publicly joining in with his naysayers.

One of the first things Nate did when he took over was establish a bond with Trae. Nate has constantly praised him and built him up. And when he has a  criticism for Trae, he keeps it light and not personal; like joking about his turnovers to the media, while likely schooling him about it behind the scenes. You see that positive reinforcement also works as Trae's TO's have dropped this season. 

LP decided that tough love was the way to go, but that only works if you stand up for your guys against the outside. Like a big brother saying Im the only one allowed to pick on my younger brother. But if you are being a hard ass behind the scenes and letting your guys get dragged then why would they ever trust you? 

I say all that to say, I defended LP when he was here. but this team took off when we moved on from him. At the end of the day this fanbase and franchise will be around long after any coach or player. I care about results more than anything, and the proof is that we have been without him.

Giving him props for being professional on NBA tv is fine. But do you really think he would have been as kind if this team fell off a cliff after firing him? Every coach would have been screaming I told you so, and LP would have not stopped them. He HAD to bite his tongue because after years trying to humble Trae, he was the one who got humbled the most. 

Poetic Justice

 

 

[kg01]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

No I wasn't. The fire CLP crew was bonkers and a few others. 

Then I cordially apologize for lumping you in.  I could've sworn, in all our battles, that was one thing you and I sparred about.  Don't fret though, we'll lock horns many more times im sure.

1 hour ago, shakes said:

OMG, I just realized what iirc means!  Thanks KG!   If I recall correctly.  Who knew?  Not me.

Haha, there's a couple of those little internet things I dont fully understand either so I won't act like an eggspert. 

[hawkman]

1 hour ago, Dynamo said:

Good Coaches don’t undermine or collude against their players.

+1000 to this^. I've been around for a while and I've never heard of a coach doing this to their players all the years I've been following sports. There's absolutely no way to normalize or defend this. 

[LucastheThird]

Sometimes I feel like we argue here just for the sake of arguing. There should be no Hawks fan dedicated enough to come to an online message board that still thinks CLP was a good guy for the Hawks. He never stood up for his players in the media and behind the scenes, denied his best players the chance at Team USA even though he knows guys take another leap after having that summer of international basketball, etc. CLP is a good man who did good things outside of basketball, but was a horrible coach for the Atlanta Hawks and I'm glad he's gone.

[Spud2nique]

It’s not LP as a person or even coach. Well maybe the latter but sometimes it’s the chemistry that doesn’t work between two or even multiple parties. I mean that’s how  Elle and I split. We are both hot but couldn’t mesh. Isn’t that right Elle?

 

[Jdawgflow]

8 hours ago, Sothron said:

 

FWIW my source confirmed it is true that Pierce told coaches not to vote for Trae to "teach him a lesson" and that Pierce told the US team not to invite Trae to it.

What kind of “lesson” was he trying to teach him?  Pierce is a huge goon.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

LP decided that tough love was the way to go, but that only works if you stand up for your guys against the outside. Like a big brother saying Im the only one allowed to pick on my younger brother. But if you are being a hard ass behind the scenes and letting your guys get dragged then why would they ever trust you? 

This^.

I have nothing against tough love behind the scenes, during games etc., but you go to bat for your players against EVERYONE else.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, shakes said:

Riddle me this Lloyd.  How do you put a positive spin on Pierce's refusal to publicly respond to Steve Nash's "that's not basketball" comments last year?     We all saw what happened league wide to Trae after that.    what possible "good motives" could Pierce have for leaving his star player out to dry like that while his college teammate dragged him through the mud?

 

Love to hear you talk your way out of this one.

 

 LP didn't respond to Nash's comments, because he agreed with Nash.

[JayBirdHawk]

Bump - Just a reminder!

Steve Holman on Lloyd Pierce.