The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[thecampster]

12 hours ago, Diesel said:

It would have to be Cap + Hunter + 16.  Let's stop acting like we can get a Max Level C for peanuts.   Plus Hunter is the only salary match. 

 

 

You might want to stay in your lane.  A max salary for Ayton starts at $30.5 million this year (give or take based on the final numbers). 

 

"If a team’s post-trade team salary would exceed the tax level, then a traded player may be replaced in the same transaction by one or more players whose salaries together do not exceed 125% of the pre-trade salary of the traded player plus $100,000."

 

This means the range of replacement salaries for Ayton (sign n trade) are:

$24.4 million and $38.1 million.

 

Clint's salary next year with bonuses is $19.7 (cap figure).  This means any salary adding up to $4.7 million and $18.4 million (give or take a smidge based on variables) gets the job done. "Hunter" is not the only option. 

 

Players on the current Hawks roster in this boat - 

Bogdan Bogdanovic	SG	$18,000,000	-	-	-	$18,000,000	8.72	$36,000,000 ($36,000,000)	Free Agent / Space
Kevin Huerter	SG	$14,508,929	-	-	-	$14,508,929	7.03	$65,000,000 ($65,000,000)	Rk Extension / Bird
De'Andre Hunter	SF	$9,835,881	-	-	-	$9,835,881	4.76	$9,835,881 ($9,835,881)	Drafted / Rookie Scale
Onyeka Okongwu	PF	$6,395,160

 

and yes I realize the can of worms I just opened. I apologize to all.

[thecampster]

Minor clarification here.  The team in the tax is definitely Phoenix. That's all that has to happen to trigger that trade scenario.  And yes I know there's a $100k kicker. It is not important to the discussion. No gotchas, no trying to be the smart guy in the room please.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

You might want to stay in your lane.  A max salary for Ayton starts at $30.5 million this year (give or take based on the final numbers). 

 

"If a team’s post-trade team salary would exceed the tax level, then a traded player may be replaced in the same transaction by one or more players whose salaries together do not exceed 125% of the pre-trade salary of the traded player plus $100,000."

 

This means the range of replacement salaries for Ayton (sign n trade) are:

$24.4 million and $38.1 million.

 

Clint's salary next year with bonuses is $19.7 (cap figure).  This means any salary adding up to $4.7 million and $18.4 million (give or take a smidge based on variables) gets the job done. "Hunter" is not the only option. 

 

Players on the current Hawks roster in this boat - 

Bogdan Bogdanovic	SG	$18,000,000	-	-	-	$18,000,000	8.72	$36,000,000 ($36,000,000)	Free Agent / Space
Kevin Huerter	SG	$14,508,929	-	-	-	$14,508,929	7.03	$65,000,000 ($65,000,000)	Rk Extension / Bird
De'Andre Hunter	SF	$9,835,881	-	-	-	$9,835,881	4.76	$9,835,881 ($9,835,881)	Drafted / Rookie Scale
Onyeka Okongwu	PF	$6,395,160

 

and yes I realize the can of worms I just opened. I apologize to all.

I was working off of the projection that Ayton starts are ~30.5 Million (maxlike money) for his next team.  I have been saying Clint/OO because it makes no sense to keep OO if we have Ayton and it sweetens the pot up really good for Phoenix... but that would only be 25-26... That's like a figure he would turn down coming from Phoenix.  I'm thinking our deal with Clint/Hunter would be something like 4 years $132 Million with a PO in the 3rd year, TO in the 4th year.  Or just a 3 year 95 Million dollar deal.   The fact that Phoenix didn't extend Ayton and gave Bridges a 4 yr 90 Million dollar deal tells me that they are tight.    

 

 

 

 

[thecampster]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I was working off of the projection that Ayton starts are ~30.5 Million (maxlike money) for his next team.  I have been saying Clint/OO because it makes no sense to keep OO if we have Ayton and it sweetens the pot up really good for Phoenix... but that would only be 25-26... That's like a figure he would turn down coming from Phoenix.  I'm thinking our deal with Clint/Hunter would be something like 4 years $132 Million with a PO in the 3rd year, TO in the 4th year.  Or just a 3 year 95 Million dollar deal.   The fact that Phoenix didn't extend Ayton and gave Bridges a 4 yr 90 Million dollar deal tells me that they are tight.    

 

 

 

 

Not including Ayton, not including any of their cap holds, the Suns have $129,181,050 in committed contracts next year to 9 players.  This is why they didn't extend Ayton last year. They will be heavily into the tax this year and won't be out of it until after Paul retires (2 years left on his deal). Any deal for Clint + players puts them at a minimum of $160 million in salary next year and probably closer to $170 million.  Their best deal is Clint + 2 lower priced salaries and a pick. Unfortunately, the only low priced salary we have is JJ.

 

PLAYER (9)	POS.	BASE SALARY	LIKELY INCENT.	UNLIKELY INCENT.	TRADE BONUS	CAP FIGURE	CAP %	CASH REMAINING (GUARANTEED)	NOTES
Devin Booker	SG	$33,833,400	-	-	-	$33,833,400	17.95	$69,849,600 ($69,849,600)	Rk Extension / Bird
Chris Paul	PG	$28,400,000	-	-	-	$28,400,000	15.07	$89,200,000 ($44,200,000)	Free Agent / Bird
Mikal Bridges	SF	$21,000,000	-	-	-	$21,000,000	11.14	$90,900,000 ($90,900,000)	Rk Extension / Bird
Jae Crowder	SF	$10,183,800	-	-	-	$10,183,800	5.40	$10,183,800 ($10,183,800)	Free Agent / NT-MLE
Landry Shamet	PG	$9,500,000	-	-	-	$9,500,000	5.04	$42,500,000 ($19,750,000)	Rk Extension / Bird
Dario Saric	PF	$9,240,000	-	-	-	$9,240,000	4.90	$9,240,000 ($9,240,000)	Free Agent / Bird
Cameron Payne	PG	$6,000,000	-	-	-	$6,000,000	3.18	$12,500,000 ($8,000,000)	Free Agent / Early Bird
Cameron Johnson	SF	$5,887,899	-	-	-	$5,887,899	3.12	$5,887,899 ($5,887,899)	Drafted / Rookie Scale
Torrey Craig	SF	$5,121,951	-	-	-	$5,121,951	2.72	$5,121,951 ($5,121,951)	Acquired via Trade

 

 

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, JTB said:

I hope this post can retire the Ayton and Gobert conversations at least for now.

That’s your cue @RandomFan. Get in here.

[thecampster]

Phoenix fans will largely reject any offer in this area as they won't understand the financial aspect of it. But it is what it is.

 

Unfortunately, OKC might be a better trade partner based on Phoenix's financial situation. The one thing we have going for us is that Ayton has some control over where he goes. Not every team can work a sign and trade for him, but there are enough teams that can for him to work something out.

[thecampster]

10 hours ago, marco102 said:

Wstching Ayton cook the Mavs and Phx would be silly to not give him.the max.

Ayton max + 5 more players = a gigantic tax penalty.  It isn't $30 million for Ayton but more like $30 million + another $70 million in penalties (no fooling).

[Spud2nique]

6 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Unfortunately, OKC might be a better trade partner based on Phoenix's financial situation. The one thing we have going for us is that Ayton has some control over where he goes. Not every team can work a sign and trade for him, but there are enough teams that can for him to work something out.

Wanna make an avatar bet. I say he stays a Sun. I’ve really wanted to alter your avatar for a minute.

[thecampster]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Wanna make an avatar bet. I say he stays a Sun. I’ve really wanted to alter your avatar for a minute.

Not sure I'm there yet.  He'd be highly marketable in another market. He'd be a ridiculous fit next to Luka in Dallas and he'd make bank on marketing opportunities there.  NY would love to have him....But there's always the question of if Phoenix will comply. Ayton will make ayton money regardless of where he goes.

[Diesel]

10 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Not including Ayton, not including any of their cap holds, the Suns have $129,181,050 in committed contracts next year to 9 players.  This is why they didn't extend Ayton last year. They will be heavily into the tax this year and won't be out of it until after Paul retires (2 years left on his deal). Any deal for Clint + players puts them at a minimum of $160 million in salary next year and probably closer to $170 million.  Their best deal is Clint + 2 lower priced salaries and a pick. Unfortunately, the only low priced salary we have is JJ.

 

PLAYER (9)	POS.	BASE SALARY	LIKELY INCENT.	UNLIKELY INCENT.	TRADE BONUS	CAP FIGURE	CAP %	CASH REMAINING (GUARANTEED)	NOTES
Devin Booker	SG	$33,833,400	-	-	-	$33,833,400	17.95	$69,849,600 ($69,849,600)	Rk Extension / Bird
Chris Paul	PG	$28,400,000	-	-	-	$28,400,000	15.07	$89,200,000 ($44,200,000)	Free Agent / Bird
Mikal Bridges	SF	$21,000,000	-	-	-	$21,000,000	11.14	$90,900,000 ($90,900,000)	Rk Extension / Bird
Jae Crowder	SF	$10,183,800	-	-	-	$10,183,800	5.40	$10,183,800 ($10,183,800)	Free Agent / NT-MLE
Landry Shamet	PG	$9,500,000	-	-	-	$9,500,000	5.04	$42,500,000 ($19,750,000)	Rk Extension / Bird
Dario Saric	PF	$9,240,000	-	-	-	$9,240,000	4.90	$9,240,000 ($9,240,000)	Free Agent / Bird
Cameron Payne	PG	$6,000,000	-	-	-	$6,000,000	3.18	$12,500,000 ($8,000,000)	Free Agent / Early Bird
Cameron Johnson	SF	$5,887,899	-	-	-	$5,887,899	3.12	$5,887,899 ($5,887,899)	Drafted / Rookie Scale
Torrey Craig	SF	$5,121,951	-	-	-	$5,121,951	2.72	$5,121,951 ($5,121,951)	Acquired via Trade

 

 

A great option for them would be Clint/Gallo/  + picks for Ayton/ Shamet or Saric...

Gallo's buyout  can save them 15 Million.  Clint has played nicely with CP3 before.   

O.  Change that.  It would have to be 2 separated deals.

Clint/Hunter for Ayton..  Then Gallo for Shamet/Crowder.  I wonder would the NBA allow that kind of Foolery?

 

 

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

A great option for them would be Clint/Gallo/  + picks for Ayton/ Shamet or Saric...

Gallo's buyout  can save them 15 Million.  Clint has played nicely with CP3 before.   

O.  Change that.  It would have to be 2 separated deals.

Clint/Hunter for Ayton..  Then Gallo for Shamet/Crowder.  I wonder would the NBA allow that kind of Foolery?

 

 

Can't include another Phoenix player in a SNT and yes they would allow it.

Edited May 3, 2022 by thecampster

[Diesel]

17 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Can't include another Phoenix player in a SNT and yes they would allow it.

Then that's how we can approach it and be more enticing to Phoenix.    The Gallo Buyout as a second deal after the Ayton trade.   Because at this point, we're giving them relief by taking two bad contracts... If Travis could get them to take Kev instead of Hunter, I would do this all day.

 

 

[Diesel]

Just now, Diesel said:

Then that's how we can approach it and be more enticing to Phoenix.    The Gallo Buyout as a second deal after the Ayton trade.   Because at this point, we're giving them relief by taking two bad contracts... If Travis could get them to take Kev instead of Hunter, I would do this all day.

 

 

But let's say it were:   CC/Hunter  for Ayton  then Gallo for Shamet/Crowder.

Ayton/JC/Crowder/Bogi/Trae...

Can this team win?

I would actually try to get Oladipo in here with Delon. But.. How far over the cap are we?

 

[thecampster]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

But let's say it were:   CC/Hunter  for Ayton  then Gallo for Shamet/Crowder.

Ayton/JC/Crowder/Bogi/Trae...

Can this team win?

I would actually try to get Oladipo in here with Delon. But.. How far over the cap are we?

 

9 players under contract at $146.7 million.  Without Gallo $130.2.

 

Player Option

Club Option

Non-Guaranteed

Estimate

PLAYER (9)	POS.	BASE SALARY	LIKELY INCENT.	UNLIKELY INCENT.	TRADE BONUS	CAP FIGURE	CAP %	CASH REMAINING (GUARANTEED)	NOTES
Trae Young	PG	$30,500,000	-	-	-	$30,500,000	14.77	$176,900,000 ($176,900,000)	Rk Extension / Bird
John Collins	PF	$23,500,000	-	-	-	$23,500,000	11.38	$102,000,000 ($102,000,000)	Free Agent / Bird
Danilo Gallinari	PF	$21,450,000	-	-	-	$21,450,000	10.39	$21,450,000 ($5,000,000)	Acquired via S&T G'teed: $5,000,000
Clint Capela	C	$18,206,897	$1,500,000	$500,000	-	$19,706,897	9.55	$65,588,177 ($61,088,177)	Acquired via Trade
Bogdan Bogdanovic	SG	$18,000,000	-	-	-	$18,000,000	8.72	$36,000,000 ($36,000,000)	Free Agent / Space
Kevin Huerter	SG	$14,508,929	-	-	-	$14,508,929	7.03	$65,000,000 ($65,000,000)	Rk Extension / Bird
De'Andre Hunter	SF	$9,835,881	-	-	-	$9,835,881	4.76	$9,835,881 ($9,835,881)	Drafted / Rookie Scale
Onyeka Okongwu	PF	$6,395,160	-	-	-	$6,395,160	3.10	$14,504,223 ($6,395,160)	Drafted / Rookie Scale
Jalen Johnson	SF	$2,792,640	-	-	-	$2,792,640	1.35	$10,228,905 ($2,792,640)	Drafted / Rookie Scale

[Mikey]

On 4/27/2022 at 7:36 AM, thecampster said:

This will probably be my last post as "an insider". Do not shoot the elected messenger. So a huge disclaimer before this gets posted.  A few weeks before the play in, I lost 2 of my 3 sources. The 3^rd guy has been spot on the last year or so with info but its hard for me to say “stuff I’ve heard” when its only coming from 1 guy.

I had a talk with the both of the other 2 before their tenures where they were came to a final close (nothing bad, moving out and up in the world), and they downloaded the chatter they’d heard as a final goodbye. A short time after that, Sothron, Supes and I revived our rumor chat and many of the things I was told they had been hearing. Some of it was shared on the board.  What follows is greater than speculation, not yet rumor, some hotter than other. Lastly, a decision was made not to discuss some of it openly as the playoffs has changed more players’ futures than Gatorade. What follows is the summation of conversations held early in April. I'll talk less about incoming players. Expect the other 2 guys to chime in later with their targeted players getting buzz.

 

The trade deadline – ownership and other stakeholders were very unhappy about the dealing around the trade deadline. They wanted consolidation trades and couldn’t swing anything. There was a feeling around the league the Hawks were dangerous and no one wanted to help. But, there was also a feeling that everything the Hawks wanted to do was a swindle. Our players were valued greater as a whole than as individuals. Ownership is eager to shake things up. Specifically, to get bigger around Trae.

 

Clint – Management likes Clint but they do not see him as defensively dominant enough to put around Trae.  They see him as good and serviceable but a better fit on a team bigger at the 2/3/4. They feel he is not getting the help he needs. We either move Clint for a dominant center or will upgrade all 3 positions between him and Trae for size.

 

Collins – Management loves John the person. Management also thinks John is a better fit next to a dominant center or elsewhere. John is not strong enough, big enough and is hurt too much to put next to Trae and Clint. They know his athleticism will fade.

 

Bogi – Management is very frustrated with his injury situation. Mad at their medical staff for clearing him. Bogi’s knee issues are suspected to be degenerative and will need to be managed. Bogi’s defense is opportunistic but a net negative in its own right. He is a terrible fit next to Trae. Huerter is not the long term answer and will eventually be on the bench but his defensive fit next to Trae was a necessity. If Bogi plays hard defense 1 night, his knee makes him useless the next….This is why Huerter is starting and why Bogi is the number 1 person on the trading block.

 

Gallo – The team loves everything Gallo brings. They do not love it $21 million worth. Gallo is a financial decision they tried to make at the trade deadline and got mediocre interest at best. A decision was made to waive or trade him in the coming offseason and the team isn’t happy about it. They love him but he just isn’t worth $20 million + a year at this stage of his career.

 

Cooper – Cooper openly complained about his role and opportunities. He may not be back and could be packaged.

 

Wright – The Hawks love everything about him. For a player the team thought they made a mistake on 10 games in, he is now solidly a Hawk. They can’t overpay him and he may take the money elsewhere (he’s played himself onto a number of rosters now), but the Hawks want to bring him back.

 

TLC – If the price is right.

 

Hunter – Hunter complained openly about touches and the end of the season was all about him proving he could hold on to the ball and be effective. The jury is out. He improved but is not efficient. The offseason will be big for Hunter and he could be included in a trade deal to get a true star 2 to put next to Trae.

 

The team wants 3 things in the offseason.  1) To get bigger, more physical. This starts at both Center and PF. The Hawks will be shopping.  2) The team wants a solid #2 scorer/ball handler. 3) To utilize their draft capital and multiple assets to consolidate bringing in 2 stars. Either 2 elite bigs or 1 elite big and 1 elite 2.

 

The team is very interested in trading out of this year’s draft and using their pick to upgrade. This entire offseason is about getting players who will help them punish teams that double/trap Trae.

 

Nate isn’t going anywhere this season. He doesn’t like his team’s personal identity and has worked with management to address it this offseason.  Expect moves. Everyone is on board.

 

If you see the Hawks make a move for either Ayton, Gobert (or even A.Davis), then that is just the first domino to fall. Clint, John, Dre, Bogi, Gallo, Cooper could all have a new address next season and we could easily not have a draft pick.  5 out, 3 in is very likely.

a lot of this is expected. that being said the last thing you said is very worrisome. 

Nate is a terrible coach and catering our roster to stuff he wants when he should absolutely be on the hot seat is the dumbest thing we could do. We don't need more nate guys we need more good players that the next coach will be able to use. Nate mcmillian stinks at his job and I know you saw that Chris kirschner article suggesting that people in the building know he isn't good at his job. He has got to go and they need to bring in a coach like Kenny atkinson and build a roster he wants to work with.

Nate mcmillian has DONE NOTHING in his ENTIRE CAREER to warrant asking for players. This is why we will never win a chip anytime soon. We make stupid decisions like hiring nate mcmillian and then we will shape our roster for this bad coach. When we inevitably lose in the first round next year they will fire nate and now have a roster (perhaps its good perhaps its not) but it was catered to the previous coach.

[thecampster]

I forgot Clint's bonuses...bump that by 1.5 mil....added wrong column.

 

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, Mikey said:

a lot of this is expected. that being said the last thing you said is very worrisome. 

Nate is a terrible coach and catering our roster to stuff he wants when he should absolutely be on the hot seat is the dumbest thing we could do. We don't need more nate guys we need more good players that the next coach will be able to use. Nate mcmillian stinks at his job and I know you saw that Chris kirschner article suggesting that people in the building know he isn't good at his job. He has got to go and they need to bring in a coach like Kenny atkinson and build a roster he wants to work with.

Nate mcmillian has DONE NOTHING in his ENTIRE CAREER to warrant asking for players. This is why we will never win a chip anytime soon. We make stupid decisions like hiring nate mcmillian and then we will shape our roster for this bad coach. When we inevitably lose in the first round next year they will fire nate and now have a roster (perhaps its good perhaps its not) but it was catered to the previous coach.

I didn't make the decision, I just reported it  

[Mikey]

Just now, thecampster said:

I didn't make the decision, I just reported it  

Yeah i understand. Not trying to shoot the messenger here just stating my opinion on this. I suspect major change (heck schlenk said it on an interiview this morning) just dumb. Won't matter as long as nate is the coach

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

9 players under contract at $146.7 million.  Without Gallo $130.2.

 

Player Option

Club Option

Non-Guaranteed

Estimate

PLAYER (9)	POS.	BASE SALARY	LIKELY INCENT.	UNLIKELY INCENT.	TRADE BONUS	CAP FIGURE	CAP %	CASH REMAINING (GUARANTEED)	NOTES
Trae Young	PG	$30,500,000	-	-	-	$30,500,000	14.77	$176,900,000 ($176,900,000)	Rk Extension / Bird
John Collins	PF	$23,500,000	-	-	-	$23,500,000	11.38	$102,000,000 ($102,000,000)	Free Agent / Bird
Danilo Gallinari	PF	$21,450,000	-	-	-	$21,450,000	10.39	$21,450,000 ($5,000,000)	Acquired via S&T G'teed: $5,000,000
Clint Capela	C	$18,206,897	$1,500,000	$500,000	-	$19,706,897	9.55	$65,588,177 ($61,088,177)	Acquired via Trade
Bogdan Bogdanovic	SG	$18,000,000	-	-	-	$18,000,000	8.72	$36,000,000 ($36,000,000)	Free Agent / Space
Kevin Huerter	SG	$14,508,929	-	-	-	$14,508,929	7.03	$65,000,000 ($65,000,000)	Rk Extension / Bird
De'Andre Hunter	SF	$9,835,881	-	-	-	$9,835,881	4.76	$9,835,881 ($9,835,881)	Drafted / Rookie Scale
Onyeka Okongwu	PF	$6,395,160	-	-	-	$6,395,160	3.10	$14,504,223 ($6,395,160)	Drafted / Rookie Scale
Jalen Johnson	SF	$2,792,640	-	-	-	$2,792,640	1.35	$10,228,905 ($2,792,640)	Drafted / Rookie Scale

OT question for you camp 🏕 

Werent you the one that basically guaranteed the Nets would win the chip after they traded for Ben?

You were so sure of it. 
 

With these Ayton posts you sound so sure too, just saying if you look at the overall pic your battin like .127 We need more than you being our Rafael Belliard here guy. Mas por favor! 

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

OT question for you camp 🏕 

Werent you the one that basically guaranteed the Nets would win the chip after they traded for Ben?

You were so sure of it. 
 

With these Ayton posts you sound so sure too, just saying if you look at the overall pic your battin like .127 We need more than you being our Rafael Belliard here guy. Mas por favor! 

I believe I qualified it as "if he plays" and "this would make the Nets the most dangerous team". I'm not big on guarantees. Too many floating parts of anything.