The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[marco102]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

I’d rather have Ayton too but Gobert seems like a more realistic trade target. Cheap or not I can’t see the suns not paying Ayton it would be too stupid.

if we get Gobert there’s some lineups I like that others may not but would be better perimeter defense for Gobert in most these lineups outside of Trae.

 

Starters group 1:

trae, Brogdon, hunter, collins, Gobert 

Starters group 2:

trae, Hunter, Roco, Collins, Gobert 

Starters group 3:

trae, clarkson, hunter, Davis, Gobert 

Starter group 4:

trae, defensive 2 via trade for collins,  hunter, Siakam, Capela or Gobert

 

the starters group 1 is my personal favorite with group 2 as a close favorite as well.

The Suns will be in the Luxury tax for two seasons. If the owner doesn't see them as a true championship contender, he won't give Ayton the max.

I think he will if they go far.

[Spud2nique]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

Per @thecampster

Per your hamster ?  

[REHawksFan]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

The Suns will be in the Luxury tax for two seasons. If the owner doesn't see them as a true championship contender, he won't give Ayton the max.

I think he will if they go far.

Before Ayton, the Suns have $81M next season and $87M the following season tied up in Booker, Paul, and Bridges.  If you max out Ayton next year, that number goes up to somewhere around $117M for 4 players.  The CAP is $122M and the LT is $149M.  So that leaves them about $32M for 11 players, but they have 6 additional guys under contract next year for $46M.  So they will be pretty far into the LT next season and the year following.  I just don't see it.  They will have a huge tax bill if they give Ayton the max unless the trade Booker, Paul, or Bridges.  Don't see that happening either.  

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JTB said:

 

I don’t think in any world we are trading both our bigs to get back Gobert….it’s either one or the other along with a wing probably Bogi since he’s the most injury prone and or Gallo since he has a expiring contract.

either way I’d go after roco this summer and seriously consider playing him at SF and Dre at SG.

the hawks want to get bigger, longer, more physical around Trae so Huerter or Bogi in the starting lineup to me just doesn’t fit that bill any longer 

Dre is not a SG.  He has no handles.  We need somebody who can actually handle the ball and possibly run the offense at the 2.   This eliminates Kev too.  Hence my thoughts about Burks.  Those who says that Kev is better than Burks.. I say, Kev can't handle the ball or run an offense and with his fear of contact, he never will. 

 As far as Gobert, he may cost us that much.  Simply because of Utah's need. We're talking a 7'2" rim protector signed for the next 4 years.  It's not getting Deke but you're not going to get him with a bunch of smoke and mirrors. 

 

 

[Atlantaholic]

10 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Before Ayton, the Suns have $81M next season and $87M the following season tied up in Booker, Paul, and Bridges.  If you max out Ayton next year, that number goes up to somewhere around $117M for 4 players.  The CAP is $122M and the LT is $149M.  So that leaves them about $32M for 11 players, but they have 6 additional guys under contract next year for $46M.  So they will be pretty far into the LT next season and the year following.  I just don't see it.  They will have a huge tax bill if they give Ayton the max unless the trade Booker, Paul, or Bridges.  Don't see that happening either.  

 

Man I wish we could get Bridges.

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Dre is not a SG.  He has no handles.  We need somebody who can actually handle the ball and possibly run the offense at the 2.   This eliminates Kev too.  Hence my thoughts about Burks.  Those who says that Kev is better than Burks.. I say, Kev can't handle the ball or run an offense and with his fear of contact, he never will. 

 As far as Gobert, he may cost us that much.  Simply because of Utah's need. We're talking a 7'2" rim protector signed for the next 4 years.  It's not getting Deke but you're not going to get him with a bunch of smoke and mirrors. 

 

 

Kevin is 100% a SG, problem is, he just isn't full time starter quality.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Dre is not a SG.  He has no handles.  We need somebody who can actually handle the ball and possibly run the offense at the 2.   This eliminates Kev too.  Hence my thoughts about Burks.  Those who says that Kev is better than Burks.. I say, Kev can't handle the ball or run an offense and with his fear of contact, he never will. 

 As far as Gobert, he may cost us that much.  Simply because of Utah's need. We're talking a 7'2" rim protector signed for the next 4 years.  It's not getting Deke but you're not going to get him with a bunch of smoke and mirrors. 

 

 

Go talk to the Knicks fans about Burke handling the ball and running the offense.

Kevin ran the offense at times the season before last just fine as a secondary playmaker. This season their was some.regression. I'm hoping with a healthy off season, he can return to form on offense and defense.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Go talk to the Knicks fans about Burke handling the ball and running the offense.

Kevin ran the offense at times the season before last just fine as a secondary playmaker. This season their was some.regression. I'm hoping with a healthy off season, he can return to form on offense and defense.

You can't watch Kev and not notice that he has a serious fear of going into the lane.   The lane must be cleared out before he goes into it.   It's not coaching because he plays hot potato just bringing the ball up.   It's not fluid, it's like 100 m dash when he has the ball.   And he's not good enough to look up and find an open man.  He dashes, comes to a stop and passes off to the closest person.   I think when he had his shoulder injured, he developed some type of mental block.   That dude is scared out there.  It's fear that chases him.. and for that reason, he can't be a fulltime primary ball handler.  He may come off the bench and run a few steps.. but i would seriously get him into a sports psychologist.. today and start him working on this fear.

What happened to this guy??

 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You can't watch Kev and not notice that he has a serious fear of going into the lane.   The lane must be cleared out before he goes into it.   It's not coaching because he plays hot potato just bringing the ball up.   It's not fluid, it's like 100 m dash when he has the ball.   And he's not good enough to look up and find an open man.  He dashes, comes to a stop and passes off to the closest person.   I think when he had his shoulder injured, he developed some type of mental block.   That dude is scared out there.  It's fear that chases him.. and for that reason, he can't be a fulltime primary ball handler.  He may come off the bench and run a few steps.. but i would seriously get him into a sports psychologist.. today and start him working on this fear.

What happened to this guy??

 

If you want to trade Kevin, it needs to be for a clear upgrade. Burke is not that. I don't have a problem with someone moving Kevin, but Burke is 7 years older and not a clear upgrade. 

[NBASupes]

11 hours ago, marco102 said:

This isn't true at all.  I watched that Jazz series and Rudy was not as quick on the perimeter as Capela.  He's a better rim defender and deters more shots, but on the perimeter, I'd go with Capela.  

This isn't saying Capela is a better defender, just that Capela is more fluid on the perimeter.  

The Hawks perimeter personnel were worse than the Jazz by the stats, so I don't see how you are saying the Hawks have better perimeter defenders than the Jazz.  The only semi positive defenders were Dre and Wright. 

LMAO!

By the stats, the Hawks offensive personnel is very good. Come on man, do y'all even try to watch teams play that's not the Hawks?

Edited May 2, 2022 by NBASupes

[JeffS17]

14 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I will soon. If I had time, I would have gave you a thoughtful answer but I am short on time.

 

Thanks for posting this, love Ben Taylor's videos -- he has a talent for creating easily digestible basketball material. 

This is a great highlight reel of what I've been saying... Jazz perimeter defense and defensive IQ outside of Gobert is WOAT levels.  I've never seen a team ball watch more than that squad, truly awful.  They are clueless on basic rotations.  Gobert doesn't even need to play with good perimeter defenders, just smart ones and his impact is like a defensive multiplier.  

9 hours ago, marco102 said:

Watch the rest of the game where they were killing him.

I watched the whole series and they were not killing Gobert lol... he cannot do literally everything.  Just having teammates that understand their assignments and rotations would do wonders.  He also gets black balled on offense and any time they actually pass to him is a huge surprise.  And by the way, none of those guys are good passers -- I see people complaining about Gobert's brick hands but he's getting fast balls above his head, not the beautiful lobs Trae will feed him.

11 hours ago, Diesel said:

BUt on Defense, Clint gets out on the perimeter a lot better...

He really doesn't.  We rarely even leave Clint on an island on the perimeter to defend guards one the line and in the paint.  That Jazz team is something special with how they switch / don't switch / don't even play defense.  Gobert is quick.  He doesn't LOOK that quick because he's tall like a giraffe but he can move and recover and has amazing instincts.  He plays well.

It's probably important to point out that Gobert carries that flawed roster to the playoffs in the first place, and if he didn't, no one would have an opportunity to unjustly criticize him because the Jazz are terrible.

[Spud2nique]

This isn’t between Ayton and Gobert imo. It’s between Gobert and going a different direction. Ayton is going back to the Suns. 

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

He doesn't LOOK that quick because he's tall like a giraffe

  

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

This isn’t between Ayton and Gobert imo. It’s between Gobert and going a different direction. Ayton is going back to the Suns. 

I think that is likely.  Seems like the Mitchell / Gobert pairing is reaching the point of explosion so something needs to happen with them this offseason.

[Spud2nique]

Another reason I’m pro Gobert is because he’s a throwback. You don’t hear too much about him off the court.

He’s a pro’s pro. If that sounds familiar, we have one of our own in Trae.

Get the dominant PG and future hall of fame center together.

 

[JeffS17]

41 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

This isn’t between Ayton and Gobert imo. It’s between Gobert and going a different direction. Ayton is going back to the Suns. 

Agreed, I don't really see the Suns letting Ayton walk, but if we can get him on a SnT with favorable terms I'd be happy with that as well.

IMO on offense, Ayton has the opposite phenomenon as Gobert right now which is he's playing with one of the best "true" PGs of all time.  CP3 makes almost anyone look like an offensive weapon.  Ayton does have a nice bag though so I'm definitely not discounting that.  His defense is nowhere near the level of Gobert though and he's playing with very good wing defenders and CP3 who is allowed to hand check and foul 3x a play.  I think our defense would take a step back with Ayton though and I'm not sure if we can really afford that.  I think it's even more important to bring in another solid perimeter defender if we go with Ayton.

[terrell]

6 hours ago, Diesel said:

Let's say that part of this trade is true..

Let's say  CC/JC/#16 for Gobert/Gay...

How do we follow that up to make Gobert effective?

For grins... Let's say that we do go out and get Robert Covington.

Can a lineup of:

Gobert, Covington, Dre, Huerter, and Young  Win in this NBA?

JC/Huerter for Paskal

CC/Gallo and picks for Gobert

Trae/Delon/Hunter/Siakam/Gobert

Rife/Bogi/TLC/JJ/OO

Trae/Huerter will never work defensively...

 

[AHF]

18 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Another reason I’m pro Gobert is because he’s a throwback. You don’t hear too much about him off the court.

He’s a pro’s pro. If that sounds familiar, we have one of our own in Trae.

Get the dominant PG and future hall of fame center together.

 

He was pretty recklessly irresponsible with COVID and some of his friction with Mitchell seems self-inflicted (this comment on Booker is a good example since you have to be dense not to anticipate that comments on Booker are going to be viewed as a contrast to Mitchell in the same way that someone commenting on Capela would be viewed as a contrast to Gobert).  That said, he isn't Kyrie who is a space cadet to a degree that it affects him as a player or someone like Eddie Johnson or Jason Kidd with big problems off the court.  Nothing there that would make me hesitate to add him to the roster.  (Questions are all $$ and on-court impact.)

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

You can't watch Kev and not notice that he has a serious fear of going into the lane.   The lane must be cleared out before he goes into it.   It's not coaching because he plays hot potato just bringing the ball up.   It's not fluid, it's like 100 m dash when he has the ball.   And he's not good enough to look up and find an open man.  He dashes, comes to a stop and passes off to the closest person.   I think when he had his shoulder injured, he developed some type of mental block.   That dude is scared out there.  It's fear that chases him.. and for that reason, he can't be a fulltime primary ball handler.  He may come off the bench and run a few steps.. but i would seriously get him into a sports psychologist.. today and start him working on this fear.

What happened to this guy??

 

I am as big of a Kevin stan as this board has....but....Every move Kev makes, every approach is to the left and right of the rim.  Kevin doesn't attack the rim, he attacks the layup. You won't draw fouls if you aren't going to the front of the rim, going at people's bodies.  Kevin will take the next step when he starts seeking out contact at the front of the rim. That is the only way a guy his size is going to get fouls called.  AHEM, Dre.....take note.

This doesn't mean you don't lay the ball up on the side...it means that you continuously move to the front of the rim until forced off of it. Going front of the rim gives you the option to adjust at the last moment to lay it off left or right depending on where the contact comes. Kev aims left of right starting and by extension makes the rim a 6th defender. Even if you are driving from the left or right baseline, you still drive toward the front of the rim in able to not get forced out on the baseline. No matter the angle, starting your drive to the front of the rim gives you the angle advantage and forces the opponent to yield or foul.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

He was pretty recklessly irresponsible with COVID

No, I don’t count this. Nobody knew much about that pandemic. True he was trying to be funny but it was the early stages, I really think nobody knew, having said that it was a lame joke anyways to cough on a microphone. 
 

He gets a pass from me on that.

 

 

[shakes]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

He was pretty recklessly irresponsible with COVID

lol, just stop.