Pick #16.....

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, terrell said:

Id start Dort at the 2 if we had him..

 

I didn't reorganize for depth. Our guaranteed contracts are listed first is all.

[NBASupes]

I like Tari Eason the most but whatever they do, bring someone that can help us immediately 

[kg01]

45 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I like Tari Eason the most but whatever they do, bring someone that can help us immediately 

Ah, so supes is on board with me.  Trade the pick!

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Ah, so supes is on board with me.  Trade the pick!

I want to keep the pick, just get someone who can help us now, not in two to three years 

[Peoriabird]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I want to keep the pick, just get someone who can help us now, not in two to three years 

That Jordan Poole looks awfully good for Golden State. He is in his 2nd year and was a late 1st rounder right.

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

That Jordan Poole looks awfully good for Golden State. He is in his 2nd year and was a late 1st rounder right.

Poole was in the same draft with Cam. I remember them having the worst rookie year. 

[sturt]

On 5/27/2022 at 9:26 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

I'm circling back to this. The most OKC can offer Dort on an extension this offseason is 4yr/$56 million, otherwise he can become an URFA next offseason and ANY team can sign him outright using their capspace.  Word is OKC may prefer to go into the 2023 season with only Shai on a long term contract, so they may not extend Dort this offseason.

So I'm expanding the deal:

OKC trades Favors ($10.1), Muscala($3.5), Dort ($1.9) and Kenrich Williams($2) for Gallo (Hawks guarantee his $21.4 mil salary), 2022 Atlanta 1st #16, Charlotte 2023 Protected 1st (if needed and if the Hawks can work out extensions with both Dort and Williams). Hawks save $3.9 million

Trade occurs prior to the draft.

New Roster:

PG: Young (36.6), Wright, Cooper
SG: Huerter(14.5) Bogi (18), Dort
SF: Hunter (9.8), Williams
PF: Collins (23.5), Johnson (2.7), Favors
C - Capela (19.7), Okongwu (6.3), Muscala

Trade would occur prior to the draft which means we can still trade any of the newly acquired players as long as they are traded separately. They cannot be aggregated for 30 days (I think).

 

Love love love what we get back.

But dang. Two firsts seems pricey when, for all you can tell when you make the deal, Dort may dart after the season... and the other three are UFAs for certain.

 

OKC is just really really really hard to gauge as to how they determine what they need in a salary dump trade.

The last time Presti made a deal like this, it was

Out: 2027 late 2nd round pick

In: Derrick Favors ($10m) | 2024 1st round pick 11-30

 

And just prior to that, he did this

Out: Al Horford ($26m) | Moses Brown ($1.7m) | 2023 late 2nd round pick

In: Kemba Walker ($26m + $27m) | 2021 #16 pick | 2025 early 2nd round pick

 

The time before that, it was

Out: Terrence Ferguson ($2.5m) | Danny Green ($15.3m) | Vincent Poirier ($2.6m)

In: Al Horford ($26m) | Theo Maledon (unsigned 2nd rounder) | Vasiliije Micic (Euro-stash) | 2025 1st round pick 7-30

 

So, he ate $10m, received a legit vet 4/5, and received a #11-#30 for his trouble, with an incidental 2nd rounder given up, too.

Before that, he ate about $25m net, and received a no-doubter 2021 #16 pick, and exchanged 2nd rounders.

And before that, he ate about $6m net, received a high-caliber 4/5, plus a couple of young wild card assets, and received a #7-#30 for his trouble.

 

 

I'm not picking up on how Presti calculates what he needs to get back. Doesn't make sense to me because the deal in which he ate the least net salary, he also received the best return.

 

In your trade, he eats $2.5m, receives a legit vet 4, and receives a #16 and a #20-#30 possibly as early as next year's (highly anticipated) draft. That seems like a lot.

 

Can't see Presti demanding two FRPs. In fact, could possibly even see a flip of the 2022 #30 for the #16.

Think Presti prefers to hold on to Favors and deal him at the deadline, giving whatever new big men he drafts some time to ease into roles. Favors and Muscala are his only players who have much experience at the 5. (Muscala isn't officially on-board just yet, b/c there's a club option, but it's only $3.5m, so hard to believe they'd balk at that.)

He's got Roby and Dort both in the same situation where they're both club options for 2022-23 who become UFAs after that. It's been suggested that Presti has too many horses already, and more coming into the barn, so he's not anxious to make any long-term commitments just yet.

Indeed, I think it's an open question whether Presti might prefer to make a deal where he only eats Gallo's $5m guarantee or make a larger deal that allows him to keep Gallo. Given that he's recently said there's at least one more season of tanking on his agenda (paraphrasing of course), seems smarter to believe he'd rather just release Gallo. And if he gives up enough salary, effectively Gallo's part in the trade is as filler to allow ATL to receive assets.

Here's the thing. If Presti was willing to eat $25-ish million in exchange for the 2021 #16, the argument can be made he ought to be willing to accept flipping #30 for #16, for no net loss. In fact, at least one writer indicated he thought Presti was looking to move up from #12, so acquiring #16 could be enticing.

 

My offer then would be:

To OKC: Danillo Gallinari ($5m) | 2022 #16 pick

To ATL: Lu Dort ($1.9m) | Isaiah Roby ($1.9m) | Kenrich Williams ($2m) | Vasilije Micic (rights) | 2022 #30 pick

So, five players total, but from Presti's perspective, he's got new horses coming in, and needs to usher some out of the back of the barn that aren't in his long-term plans anyhow. The one I'd guess he'd be most reluctant to give up is Roby. And if he doth protest too much, I'd probably be willing to take his #34 pick instead of his #30 to get it done.

Dort drastically and immediately improves defense. He's just 6-3, but he's built like a tank and yet has some springs for legs. His offense has been developing. If Schlenk is dealing BogBog (and I for one hope that doesn't happen), I love the idea of Dort getting the chance to step in.

Roby immediately is a candidate to step-in where Gallo left off.

Williams becomes McM's new favorite, a younger version of Solo.

And Micic is a highly intriguing but 28 yr old wild card who's achieved everything he can really want to achieve in Europe. In fact, the news just broke that Micic is committed to making his NBA debut next season.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Love love love what we get back.

But dang. Two firsts seems pricey when, for all you can tell when you make the deal, Dort may dart after the season... and the other three are UFAs for certain.

 

OKC is just really really really hard to gauge as to how they determine what they need in a salary dump trade.

The last time Presti made a deal like this, it was

Out: 2027 late 2nd round pick

In: Derrick Favors ($10m) | 2024 1st round pick 11-30

 

And just prior to that, he did this

Out: Al Horford ($26m) | Moses Brown ($1.7m) | 2023 late 2nd round pick

In: Kemba Walker ($26m + $27m) | 2021 #16 pick | 2025 early 2nd round pick

 

The time before that, it was

Out: Terrence Ferguson ($2.5m) | Danny Green ($15.3m) | Vincent Poirier ($2.6m)

In: Al Horford ($26m) | Theo Maledon (unsigned 2nd rounder) | Vasiliije Micic (Euro-stash) | 2025 1st round pick 7-30

 

So, he ate $10m, received a legit vet 4/5, and received a #11-#30 for his trouble, with an incidental 2nd rounder given up, too.

Before that, he ate about $25m net, and received a no-doubter 2021 #16 pick, and exchanged 2nd rounders.

And before that, he ate about $6m net, received a high-caliber 4/5, plus a couple of young wild card assets, and received a #7-#30 for his trouble.

 

 

I'm not picking up on how Presti calculates what he needs to get back. Doesn't make sense to me because the deal in which he ate the least net salary, he also received the best return.

 

In your trade, he eats $2.5m, receives a legit vet 4, and receives a #16 and a #20-#30 possibly as early as next year's (highly anticipated) draft. That seems like a lot.

 

Can't see Presti demanding two FRPs. In fact, could possibly even see a flip of the 2022 #30 for the #16.

Think Presti prefers to hold on to Favors and deal him at the deadline, giving whatever new big men he drafts some time to ease into roles. Favors and Muscala are his only players who have much experience at the 5. (Muscala isn't officially on-board just yet, b/c there's a club option, but it's only $3.5m, so hard to believe they'd balk at that.)

He's got Roby and Dort both in the same situation where they're both club options for 2022-23 who become UFAs after that. It's been suggested that Presti has too many horses already, and more coming into the barn, so he's not anxious to make any long-term commitments just yet.

Indeed, I think it's an open question whether Presti might prefer to make a deal where he only eats Gallo's $5m guarantee or make a larger deal that allows him to keep Gallo. Given that he's recently said there's at least one more season of tanking on his agenda (paraphrasing of course), seems smarter to believe he'd rather just release Gallo. And if he gives up enough salary, effectively Gallo's part in the trade is as filler to allow ATL to receive assets.

Here's the thing. If Presti was willing to eat $25-ish million in exchange for the 2021 #16, the argument can be made he ought to be willing to accept flipping #30 for #16, for no net loss. In fact, at least one writer indicated he thought Presti was looking to move up from #12, so acquiring #16 could be enticing.

 

My offer then would be:

To OKC: Danillo Gallinari ($5m) | 2022 #16 pick

To ATL: Lu Dort ($1.9m) | Isaiah Roby ($1.9m) | Kenrich Williams ($2m) | Vasilije Micic (rights) | 2022 #30 pick

So, five players total, but from Presti's perspective, he's got new horses coming in, and needs to usher some out of the back of the barn that aren't in his long-term plans anyhow. The one I'd guess he'd be most reluctant to give up is Roby. And if he doth protest too much, I'd probably be willing to take his #34 pick instead of his #30 to get it done.

Dort drastically and immediately improves defense. He's just 6-3, but he's built like a tank and yet has some springs for legs. His offense has been developing. If Schlenk is dealing BogBog (and I for one hope that doesn't happen), I love the idea of Dort getting the chance to step in.

Roby immediately is a candidate to step-in where Gallo left off.

Williams becomes McM's new favorite, a younger version of Solo.

And Micic is a highly intriguing but 28 yr old wild card who's achieved everything he can really want to achieve in Europe. In fact, the news just broke that Micic is committed to making his NBA debut next season.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

On 5/24/2022 at 1:09 AM, warcore said:

 

Warcore you too pretty to be playing basketball  

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

Dort may dart after the season

I made a previous post that #16 for an extended Dort is a fair enough deal as a stand alone offer.

(Think Capela for #16).

You are right that the additional Charlotte 2023 1st is pricey.

For the rest of the guys like Favors and Moose, I'm thinking more of them as using in trade as part of a larger deal where we are limited in how much salary we can send back. I'm looking at staying under the tax for additional trade porposes. We've saved $3 million on the original deal, Muscala has a PO so if he's released so that's an additional $3.5 mil.

[Peoriabird]

Why would the hawks give up a 1st round pick for Lu Dort again?  His advanced metrics look horrible!

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dortlu01.html#per_poss

 

[Peoriabird]

56 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I made a previous post that #16 for an extended Dort is a fair enough deal as a stand alone offer.

 

Why do you like Dort?

[Spud2nique]

59 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Why would the hawks give up a 1st round pick for Lu Dort again?  His advanced metrics look horrible!

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dortlu01.html#per_poss

 

Have you seen him on the court? I dunno when I watch what he can do, I love it. I think the stats were low cuz he had to take on extra offensive burden because his team stinks. If he gets here and carves out a Roco or PJ Tucker type career for himself I’m very happy.

[Peoriabird]

21 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Have you seen him on the court? I dunno when I watch what he can do, I love it. I think the stats were low cuz he had to take on extra offensive burden because his team stinks. If he gets here and carves out a Roco or PJ Tucker type career for himself I’m very happy.

His defensive numbers are mediocre too but his offense is terrible

[sturt]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Why would the hawks give up a 1st round pick for Lu Dort again?  His advanced metrics look horrible!

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/dortlu01.html#per_poss

 

It's true, that's why you probably can get him at reasonable price, because his lowlights tape obviously must be considerable given these metrics. And you can't quantify how well he plays defense--when you eyeball him, and when you take into account he's routinely been tasked with the other team's Harden, he's really something to behold.

I really thought this was a great deep dive season-end review on him from an OKC blogger...

 

 

So, again, I do think he likely could be acquired for a very reasonable price.

What's more, I see he and Roby both carry Bird rights into free agency after this season, so I'd be content to not do an extension just yet, and see how 2022-23 develops first. Clearly, if we would have a role to offer him next off-season, almost certainly we could compete for his services if we wanted.

 

[Peoriabird]

10 minutes ago, sturt said:

It's true, that's why you probably can get him at reasonable price, because his lowlights tape obviously must be considerable given these metrics. And you can't quantify how well he plays defense--when you eyeball him, and when you take into account he's routinely been tasked with the other team's Harden, he's really something to behold.

I really thought this was a great deep dive season-end review on him from an OKC blogger...

 

I don't consider the #16th pick a low cost for a player like this!  He has never been a plus defender with negative BMP/VORP every year.  I'm not giving up the 16th pick for this guy and certainly not signing him to a long term deal.  Give me Delon Wright over him any day of the week.

[sturt]

24 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I don't consider the #16th pick a low cost for a player like this!  He has never been a plus defender with negative BMP/VORP every year.  I'm not giving up the 61th pick for this guy and certainly not signing him to a long term deal.  Give me Delon Wright over him.

Oh, I agree. Give me Delon Wright as priority #1 for the off-season. I don't want to see any more PGs having to come in and get on-boarded with Nate. If Delon can be signed for about what he's been playing for (?), that's golden.

And I also agree I don't give up the #16 pick for just Dort. I'm suggesting he come in a package, and that he comes to the team essentially having a year impress enough to want to keep him.

Here's how it would look...

 

Mind you, zooming out, this really illustrates how vulnerable BogBog is.... we're not even paying the rest of the roster much, but his $18m... now combined with the additional $6m Trae's making.... puts us in that first $5m tier of taxpayers, and if we were to tip over that $154m threshold to the next higher tier, I think that's probably a non-started with Ressler until we actually win something.

The wild card in the equation is what you could sign Micic for... and I definitely think Micic's acquisition makes BogBog even more vulnerable, since their games are pretty similar.

I'll walk out on the plank further... Micic is a candidate for steal of the off-season.

[kg01]

47 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Have you seen him on the court? I dunno when I watch what he can do, I love it. I think the stats were low cuz he had to take on extra offensive burden because his team stinks. If he gets here and carves out a Roco or PJ Tucker type career for himself I’m very happy.

My guy peo has been lecturing us on the importance of defense but can't see Dort's value.  Yeesh.

And when will folks stop stop using numbers to tell them who's a good defender as an individual.

Dort for 16 is a fine price.

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Dort for 16 is a fine price.

OKC's given us a primo comparable by virtue of last year's deal.

Effectively, they gave up Horford for the #16.

Dort > Horford?

Granted, you can extend Dort, and if you love him that much maybe that makes him more valuable... but you really don't need to do that since you have Bird rights anyhow.

[Peoriabird]

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Dort for 16 is a fine price.

This is absolute madness!  Would you trade John Collins for Lu Dort??  Collins was the 19th pick.  Its useless talking with some people I see