The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[JayBirdHawk]

Both Murray and White were both on the table last offseason and again at the deadline.

Here is what White eventually got traded for:

The Spurs traded Derrick White to the Celtics at February's NBA Trade Deadline for Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford, a 2022 first-round pick and a 2028 first-round pick swap.

Do with it what you will.

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Based on 1 good year from Murray??? I find this amusing

The market sets itself.  A ballhandling, playmaking, rebounding, defensive guard, who can score, albeit at not the best efficiency, will be more highly touted than a skiled PF who although improved on the defensive end, is not the greatest defender out there. 

This isn't me taking a shot at John.  Just saying the market sets their value.  

Edited June 26, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

41 minutes ago, marco102 said:

The market sets itself.  A ballhandling, playmaking, rebounding, defensive guard, who can score, albeit at not the best efficiency, will be more highly touted than a skiled PF who although improved on the defensive end, is not the greatest defender out there. 

This isn't me taking a shot at John.  Just saying the market sets their value.  

It's all about prototypes. 

Murray - Two way PG, can playmake, defend, score, play on and off the ball and adds positive value. He's not SGA but he's moving up the ladder. 

JC - Offensively versatile PF who does a lot of good things offensively. He's turned himself into a good defender but he's undersized, lacks positional versatility and doesn't guard the top player well at all. Some will see him as a weaker defender because the playoff teams tend to have the best players and he has to be protected in many of those instances which is why we tend to get non-playoff teams to give us calls for him the most. 

[akay]

Idk why you guys think putting Murray up means putting John down. 

Murray in his most recent season had his best overall season doing things(rebounding, playmaking, high level defense) on his own that fit on any team, but especially ours like a glove.

Is he gonna be a perfect PnR partner for Trae like our man JC? 

No, obviously cause that's not his role. It's not John's role on this team either. John does spot up 3's, and abuses mismatches, and rebounds.

John is a good player, but he has to be in a good system with a clearly defined role, and a big defensive center to help him not get abused on defense. He's been asking for a clearer role on the team for years, along with more involvement in the offense, so when an opportunity has come that would be mutually beneficial, why would you hesitate to send John out. 

He's a wonderful person, and a positive leader on the team, but his on court fit with the team isn't perfect, and this is the most value we have seen for him in any trade scenario so far.

If all it takes is John and 3 firsts, I am sure we can easily find those, and it feels inevitable that we pay the price.

Murray is too good of a player/fit on our team to hold up a transaction all because of an extra pick or jc.

I'm sure Travis is gonna get it done because there's no better option. Not getting this deal done would be monumentally disappointing, and I don't think Trae would really care about "Oh, they wanted a whole 3 Frp for their rising star who would play perfectly next you, sorry Trae, couldn't get it done. Enjoy talking to Brogdon on the bench, we'll use our draft picks later ". 

Off season is so exhausting, I wish any move would happen already lol 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, akay said:

Off season is so exhausting

Totally agree with this statement and one day I'll get @JayBirdHawkto agree with this sentiment!

[JayBirdHawk]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Totally agree with this statement and one day I'll get @JayBirdHawkto agree with this sentiment!

 

[Spud2nique]

18 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Totally agree with this statement and one day I'll get @JayBirdHawkto agree with this sentiment!

Not any day that ends in “Y” buddy! 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

John is not worth the same as Dejounte. It might be your opinion that they should be worth nearly the same,  but alas, they are not. The market will show this to be the case

 

2 hours ago, sturt said:

It's only the peripherals to the situation that even make it make sense to include one draft pick.

To be clear, bleach, the market is a reflection of the talent level plus the peripherals... the contract situation in terms of money, the contract situation in terms of when it was signed relative to the player's performance now, the contract situation in terms of remaining years, the team X needs, the team Y needs, the team X payroll, the team Y payroll... all of it.

Purely looking at talent... this is practically undeniably true...

 

 

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Not any day that ends in “Y” buddy! 

Haha, heeeeyyy..... I've heard this before.

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Haha, heeeeyyy..... I've heard this before.

You like how I threw in “buddy”? Not my style my inner Chappelle Bigsby came through  

[JTB]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

The market sets itself.  A ballhandling, playmaking, rebounding, defensive guard, who can score, albeit at not the best efficiency, will be more highly touted than a skiled PF who although improved on the defensive end, is not the greatest defender out there. 

This isn't me taking a shot at John.  Just saying the market sets their value.  

I’m a firm believer in “presence” of star players who FIT and always have been for those borderline all stars (JC & Ayton) or those guys who just did enough to get voted in (Murray). By that I mean players who are borderline all stars or getting ready to hit their peak has a high possibility of being even more impactful if placed around the right stars players.

it really is all about timing!…Wiggins is the perfect example. He’s always had the all star potential but the FIT with Towns wasn’t good. FIT doesn’t have to be perfect it just has to be impactful and sometimes you can be impactful but not necessarily an all star level player but role impactful players like spencer Dinwiddie….everyone thought he was done but truly Beal wasn’t an ideal star next to him to make him better like Luka is. Nor did he have the right kind of coach… So it’s the right star and right basketball program.

 

Another example…. if we had a better offensively gifted coach that actually ran plays for JC on top of the superb playmaking from Trae …it’s highly possible JC would have made some all star games as a reserve by now BUT because we can’t play him at center it takes away from JCs full offensive abilities. THIS is also why I wouldn’t mind keeping Collins pairing him with Ayton under a new coach regimen because that should be a big offensive 3 where 3 guys can all go get 20 (Trae, JC, Ayton).

I use to say similar with Teague when Johnson was still our star but unfortunately when Teague truly became good enough to be a legit starter in the nba the Johnson era was done in Atlanta and the presence was gone. Also we didn’t have the right coach until bud came. It’s unfortunate but if Bud coached the Johnson era and gave Teague the same good training I believe Teague would have made more than 1 all star game in his career. I recall those teague breakout moments in the playoffs early in his career which where the “playoff teague” came from and woody just didn’t take advantage of it. Took bud to get here to notice his talents.

 

But back on topic…Trae makes players better in my opinion but perhaps more so big men so Ayton would be a absolute sure all star here. At the same time someone like Murray would be an all star here too because he’d become a 2nd option which for him in my opinion would just easily feed off of Traes presence since he’s the first option. Almost any do it yourself bucket getter beside Trae is going to feast. That’s just facts.

[NBASupes]

10 minutes ago, JTB said:

I’m a firm believer in “presence” of star players who FIT and always have been for those borderline all stars (JC & Ayton) or those guys who just did enough to get voted in (Murray). By that I mean players who are borderline all stars or getting ready to hit their peak has a high possibility of being even more impactful if placed around the right stars players.

it really is all about timing!…Wiggins is the perfect example. He’s always had the all star potential but the FIT with Towns wasn’t good. FIT doesn’t have to be perfect it just has to be impactful and sometimes you can be impactful but not necessarily an all star level player but role impactful players like spencer Dinwiddie….everyone thought he was done but truly Beal wasn’t an ideal star next to him to make him better like Luka is. Nor did he have the right kind of coach… So it’s the right star and right basketball program.

 

Another example…. if we had a better offensively gifted coach that actually ran plays for JC on top of the superb playmaking from Trae …it’s highly possible JC would have made some all star games as a reserve by now BUT because we can’t play him at center it takes away from JCs full offensive abilities. THIS is also why I wouldn’t mind keeping Collins pairing him with Ayton under a new coach regimen because that should be a big offensive 3 where 3 guys can all go get 20 (Trae, JC, Ayton).

I use to say similar with Teague when Johnson was still our star but unfortunately when Teague truly became good enough to be a legit starter in the nba the Johnson era was done in Atlanta and the presence was gone. Also we didn’t have the right coach until bud came. It’s unfortunate but if Bud coached the Johnson era and gave Teague the same good training I believe Teague would have made more than 1 all star game in his career. I recall those teague breakout moments in the playoffs early in his career which where the “playoff teague” came from and woody just didn’t take advantage of it. Took bud to get here to notice his talents.

 

But back on topic…Trae makes players better in my opinion but perhaps more so big men so Ayton would be a absolute sure all star here. At the same time someone like Murray would be an all star here too because he’d become a 2nd option which for him in my opinion would just easily feed off of Traes presence since he’s the first option. Almost any do it yourself bucket getter beside Trae is going to feast. That’s just facts.

I agree with a lot of your post but Murray is questionable for me and that's why I am out. 

Its simple for me

6'1 175 with 6'4 180

That's too small and we got to pay him the max in two years. Yeah, I am out.

You could try to convince me otherwise but his size is too much a problem for me.

[TRW]

Is not getting better trade offers a John Collins problem or is it a Travis Schlenk, or Atlanta Hawks organization problem?

Example: Would John Collins have a higher trade value if he was on the Miami Heat or another popular team?  

 

[nathan2331]

1 minute ago, TRW said:

Is not getting better trade offers a John Collins problem or is it a Travis Schlenk, or Atlanta Hawks organization problem?

Example: Would John Collins have a higher trade value if he was on the Miami Heat or another popular team?  

 

If a team utilized him more in their offense and his numbers went up, then sure he'd have more value. But I don't think he has less value just because he's a Hawk.

[JayBirdHawk]

Bradley Beal 'very likely' to decline option and re-sign with Wizards on max deal

In Beal’s case, a $36.4 million player option is much more certain to be declined. Even if Beal simply re-signs with the Wizards, he can increase his 2022-23 salary to the projected max of $42.7 million. Per Wojnarowski, Bradley Beal is very likely to decline the option and re-sign with Washington on a five-year deal worth a projected $248 million that would take him through age 33.

 

– via Kevin Pelton @ ESPN

[nathan2331]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Bradley Beal 'very likely' to decline option and re-sign with Wizards on max deal

In Beal’s case, a $36.4 million player option is much more certain to be declined. Even if Beal simply re-signs with the Wizards, he can increase his 2022-23 salary to the projected max of $42.7 million. Per Wojnarowski, Bradley Beal is very likely to decline the option and re-sign with Washington on a five-year deal worth a projected $248 million that would take him through age 33.

 

– via Kevin Pelton @ ESPN

Hope plans on winning nothing while he's on that contract. Go get paid tho, that's an absurd contract.

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, TRW said:

Is not getting better trade offers a John Collins problem or is it a Travis Schlenk, or Atlanta Hawks organization problem?

Example: Would John Collins have a higher trade value if he was on the Miami Heat or another popular team?  

 

"It's cause Collins is trash and everybody who disagrees don't know basketball!" - Supes

[kg01]

Just now, nathan2331 said:

Hope plans on winning nothing while he's on that contract. Go get paid tho, that's an absurd contract.

It's the old 'opt-in, get my max, then demand a trade later' ploy.  Classic move.

[TRW]

Just now, kg01 said:

It's the old 'opt-in, get my max, then demand a trade later' ploy.  Classic move.

Exactly. I hope we're not that team that trades all of there assets for him. He appears to be a great human being but I believe he's overrated. I don't think he's a #2 on a championship team. Definitely a #3 though.

[Diesel]

On JC.

If there's no good deals for him, then he stays.  We do not take a bad deal for JC or cheapen JC.  F the Media.  F the other teams.  JC is a good Stretch 4 and we will keep him instead of prostitute ourselves out like we are desperate. 

Would we just walk away?....