Scale of 1-10, how much of an improvement is the 22-23 roster *defensively* over 21-22? (Just polling the congregation, no gaslighting intended)

[sturt]

As we began the off-season, many if not most of us championed this particular dimension as the most paramount one... and thus, the one by which the off-season should be mostly assessed.

So, here's a suggested scale..............

1.0 = Almost none

2.5 = Detectable, but not significant

5.0 = Fairly significant

7.5 = Very significant

10.0 = Potential for historically significant for an ATL team

 

(Of course, the question presumes that we see improvement. If you disagree with that, then just use the same integers, but go into negative territory.)

Curious to read others opinions/thoughts.

 

 

[TRW]

4.0

We'll see a difference but not sure how much considering our offense might become less productive. 

[JayBirdHawk]

The Starters - 7.5.

Trae - he has been asked to improve his defense and I'm hoping Murray rubs off on him. We've seen what a locked in Trae looks like, just have not seen a sustained effort.

Murray -  is the key here. Besides just being a better defensive player than Bogi and Huerter, his athleticism alone changes the dynamic. 

Hunter - doesn't always have to guard the best 1-4 player now. Murray should help there.

Collins and Capela - they've always made a good defensive tandem since they communicate really well, health will be the key.

A big part of why our defense sucked was our transition defense, lack of communication on switches, digging too far into the paint on help defense (Huerter) and sometimes just the overall effort.

 

The bench - I need to give this more thought.

[Peoriabird]

Hard to tell because of so many wild cards like JJ/Okungwu/AJ Griff. I'll have to get an idea of what their roles will be going forward before giving out the grade.

[Diesel]

5.

 

Delon was an defensive savant. 

However, Murray will get more PT. 

I don't know about the Holidays or Harkless.  We will have to see. 

 

[Final_quest]

I’m going with 8.  People are over thinking the impact of the end of the rotation.  This is a top heavy league.  

[NBASupes]

Offensively, 0. No upgrade from last year outside of internal improvement which we don't know yet. 

Defensively 9, insanely significant upgrade. Murray for Kevin, massive. Okongwu for Gallos mins, massive. Our defense will be much better as a team. 

Our bench offense should be improved 

[Peoriabird]

On 7/20/2022 at 6:42 AM, Final_quest said:

I’m going with 8.  People are over thinking the impact of the end of the rotation.  This is a top heavy league.  

Most people think that all you have to do to play good defense is to have a bunch of athletic players on the court at the same time but it's more than that. Otherwise Dallas would not have a better defense than say Memphis or Toronto. It takes coordination and scheme.

[macdaddy]

50 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Offensively, 0. No upgrade from last year outside of internal improvement which we don't know yet. 

Defensively 9, insanely significant upgrade. Murray for Kevin, massive. Okongwu for Gallos mins, massive. Our defense will be much better as a team. 

Our bench offense should be improved 

This is what i think too.   And if we get a truly healthy Bogi his defense is decent.  

I'm still a little miffed that we traded Huerter.   I thought it was to put other deals in motion but by itself I don't like it even though I had actually grown really frustrated with his play.  But he'd be nice off the bench with this squad. 

[sturt]

How I sees it...

1. Murray's taking some KVon minutes, but also Delon minutes... and so there's significant upgrade on the one hand, but then there's plausibly none on the other. Delon's just too good.

2. JDay likely is taking the other KVon minutes... solid upgrade there, perhaps even significant.

3. ADay likely is getting minutes comparable to LouWill, ie, when LouWill was actually getting minutes... upgrade, yes, but very limited impact given how little he'll be on the floor as things currently seem postured.

4. Mo likely is to be cast in the Solo role... playing either forward spot depending on who's getting a night off due to injury or load management... which was essentially TLC's role last season, though he was deployed in a SG or SF slot. I think Mo @ 100% is definitely an upgrade, but I'm cautious to assume he is or will be 100%... so, I can't give either one an edge.

5. Jalen is getting Gallo minutes, and it's less that we can know very much about Jalen's defensive capability, more that we know as much as we do about Gallo's... that... makes me comfortable with assessing that as a solid improvement... and of course, if it turns out to be the case JJ is actually really good defensively, that would seriously impact the situation.

6. Easily overlooked, but have to consider player development here, too... Hunter and Godzilla both should continue to ratchet up their defensive games.

Verdict here: 5.0, fairly significant... with JJ, Hunter and Godzilla minutes potentially pushing that to something closer to 7 or 7.5.

[JeffS17]

7

As others have mentioned Murray is obviously the key here, but him being on the court should have synergistic effects, particularly allowing Capela to be his best self out there.  Hunter is elite when he doesn't have to defend really quick guards.  He thrives guarding really good wings Murray will allow him to focus on that.  Our defensive matchups are going to be soooo much better than last year.  Capela wasn't healthy for half the year which is going to be an improvement this year.  No Gallo is HUGE for our defense.  Dude was a bucket but ATROCIOUS on defense.  No Wright is painful but IMO the impact of OO on the floor over Gallo is a greater plus.  Having Justin Holiday should be good as well.

Last point that probably doesn't register immediately when looking at team defense ratings for the year, is that we had Cam Reddish for half the year gambling for steals and playing horrendous team defense.  He was a big negative for our defense last year as he was not engaged and played selfishly.

[kg01]

5 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I’m going with 8.  People are over thinking the impact of the end of the rotation.  This is a top heavy league.  

I'm with you.  I do think we could miss Galloicious more than we realize though. 

[Gray Mule]

4 --- I know nothing about all the new guys.  Murray has the reputation.  The others?  Frank Kaminsky?  He's a big old boy and we are hoping he somewhat replaces Gallo.  Does he play any defense?  Anyone?  While we all expect the defense to improve, will the offense suffer?  Our 2nd round draft pick looked pretty good in Summer League.  He may get a minute or two here and there.  Adding JJ & 1st round pick, Maybe.

Building in progress

Edited July 20, 2022 by Gray Mule

[FL_BRYANT]

Hard to say. Other than Murray we just added minimal contract guys or some that are close to being out the league. Hopefully JJ is ready for significant minutes but like JJ we don't know if the rookies will even play. I just don't know how much we're going to get out of the Holidays, Harkless, Kaminsky and the rookies. Kev and Gallo gave us close to 25 pts a game . Can we count on this kind of production from the new ballplayers we added. I'm just not sure. They may be better defensively but other than Murray how many minutes will they get?

[Diesel]

19 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Hunter is elite when he doesn't have to defend really quick guards.  He thrives guarding really good wings Murray will allow him to focus on that. 

We will have to see about this.   Hunter is the biggest enigma on this team.  Some squawkers just like him because we drafted him.  IF he wee with the Pelicans for instance..  Would we be calling asking for his trade price??  No...  He hasn't done anything and he's been injured.  Kev was a good college player too.. so let's stop saying that that means something in relation to Hunter.   Our house of cards is sorta built on if Hunter will be good. 

 

[Peoriabird]

51 minutes ago, Diesel said:

We will have to see about this.   Hunter is the biggest enigma on this team.  Some squawkers just like him because we drafted him.  IF he wee with the Pelicans for instance..  Would we be calling asking for his trade price??  No...  He hasn't done anything and he's been injured.  Kev was a good college player too.. so let's stop saying that that means something in relation to Hunter.   Our house of cards is sorta built on if Hunter will be good. 

 

A lot of posters have planted their anti-Hunter flags this offseason which mean there will be a lot of I told you so this up coming season...can't wait! Lol!

[JayBirdHawk]

2 hours ago, FL_BRYANT said:

I just don't know how much we're going to get out of the Holidays, Harkless, Kaminsky and the rookies. Kev and Gallo gave us close to 25 pts a game . Can we count on this kind of production from the new ballplayers we added

I don't think it's a 1 for 1 replacement of production for Huerter and Gallo - it'll be by committee.

Besides if the assumption is we are replacing Huerter (12 ppg) with Murray (21 ppg) he surpasses Huerter’s starter production from last season in points, rebounds, steals and assists. 

Here's a player comparison between Huerter and Holiday:

Per Game

 

• Glossary

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Justin Holiday	2021-22	32	74	65	27.8	3.5	8.9	.394	2.4	6.5	.367	1.1	2.4	.467	.528	0.7	0.8	.806	0.4	2.2	2.6	1.7	0.8	0.4	0.9	2.1	10.1
2	Kevin Huerter	2021-22	23	74	60	29.6	4.7	10.3	.454	2.2	5.6	.389	2.5	4.7	.530	.559	0.6	0.7	.808	0.4	3.0	3.4	2.7	0.7	0.4	1.2	2.5	12.1

Totals

 

• Glossary

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Justin Holiday	2021-22	32	74	65	2057	261	662	.394	177	482	.367	84	180	.467	.528	50	62	.806	29	161	190	128	57	33	70	154	749
2	Kevin Huerter	2021-22	23	74	60	2188	345	760	.454	160	411	.389	185	349	.530	.559	42	52	.808	32	222	254	203	55	26	91	185	892

Per 36 Minutes

 

• Glossary

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Justin Holiday	2021-22	32	74	65	2057	4.6	11.6	.394	3.1	8.4	.367	1.5	3.2	.467	0.9	1.1	.806	0.5	2.8	3.3	2.2	1.0	0.6	1.2	2.7	13.1
2	Kevin Huerter	2021-22	23	74	60	2188	5.7	12.5	.454	2.6	6.8	.389	3.0	5.7	.530	0.7	0.9	.808	0.5	3.7	4.2	3.3	0.9	0.4	1.5	3.0	14.7

 

Gallo's production will be the hardest to replace on offense just given his offensive versatility. He was a battle tested veteran. Some combination of JJ, OO, Kaminsky and Harkless will have to pick up the Gallo slack.

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Gallo's production will be the hardest to replace on offense just given his offensive versatility. He was a battle tested veteran. Some combination of JJ, OO, Kaminsky and Harkless will have to pick up the Gallo slack.

John will easily replace Gallo's production since Gallo was essentially the starting power forward down the stretch of the season and in the play in games

[AHF]

5.

On paper it is a very meaningful improvement, although losing Delon hurts.  Don’t think the improvement was so meaningful that it fundamentally transforms the team but there is the potential for trickle down effects (Trae has more than energy for D with Murray supporting playmaking; Hunter now can guard the #2 threat in many lineups; etc.)

Need to see if we maximize those talents with our scheme / player coordination.  

[macdaddy]

I'm super optimistic because i think we will start the season with better chemistry and we have guys who have a lot to prove.   

But I have to admit that replacing Huerter with Holiday and Gallo with Kaminsky has me concerned.   I get that we really replaced Kev with Murray which was sorely needed but we really needed Kev off the bench.  If Holiday can give us some firepower great but we'll see.