Hawks looking to trade

[theheroatl]

I feel like we've been at these fan discussions for so freaking long without any changes.

We had the mills, matthews, DJ signings and before that we had the Bey trade last season but since then we've hammered every angle and we are at the mercy of literally no changes or trades

It's amazing we keep going as a fanbase with so little to go on.

Edited January 10 by theheroatl

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

I feel like we've been at these fan discussions for so freaking long without any changes.

We had the mills, matthews, DJ signings and before that we had the Bey trade last season but since then we've hammered every angle and we are at the mercy of literally no changes or trades

It's amazing we keep going as a fanbase with so little to go on.

Well I see all the rumors as entertainment and that's why I'm here...

[NBASupes]

44 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

This team has talented people, but the flaws are numerous:

-You have a backcourt that is small and both are ball dominant players. It's a problem. It appears that the players understand it Aldo. Which is why Murray wants out.

-You have a center that is not very big and can't do anything on the offensive end but score around the rim. Cap still rebounds and blocks shots, but with Trae you need a big man that offers more versatility. Someone that can move better away from the rim.

-Softness. This team has almost zero toughness. 

-Outside of JJ and OO to some degree, this team really lacks versatility. The athleticism is not that great either.

-Bench depth isn't good. 

I suspect the team wants to keep Trae, JJ and OO...So...

Trae

?????

JJ

OO

????

I would like to see the Hawks grab a SG with size, good defense and shooting ability. Some decent ball handling without needing to dominate the ball. One that will do much of their scoring from the outside. What is needed was a better defending and more offensive minded Kevin Huerter at SG. One that's more of a 17-19PPG player 

The center spot might be tougher.

I'm not convinced that OO is going to much better as a starter, but I doubt management agrees with me. It is what it is.

That SG player you named is an all star caliber player 

[Gray Mule]

Hawks problem is, they have the players that they need.  Yet, these players are rookies with -0- NBA experience.  Look at our needs that we see discussed here.  Hawks need a 2 guard with size to replace Murray when we trade him.  Enter Kobe Bufkin.

Hawks need more size up front, especially at the PF position.  Enter M. Gueye.  He fits the description, doesn't he.

I know.  These two can't help us right now and we don't know how good or bad they may be as they mature and learn to play NBA ball with Trae.  Before season's end we must find out just what we have.  Good or bad, right now they are Hawks.

The rumor mill thinks that Murray is on the trade block.  Question:  What do we reasonably expect to receive in return?  This is not a give-away.  If other NBA teams expect to get him for nothing, we keep him.  Hawks are not desperate. 

Hunter may not be an all-star but he's much better than some people believe.  Like Murray, he's not free.  There are some Hawks, down at the end of the bench, that would not be missed if we included them in a trade, just to balance the $$$ requirements.

If a Hawk is still on his rookie contract, he's a keeper because he's young and the cost of his contract is reasonable.  These guys have room to grow, unlike some of our veteran bench players who are past their prime.  

[yungsta]

38 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Spurs aren't giving us our picks back. Don't be one of those delusional fans. They got us by the short hairs and they know it.

True, those picks are WAAYY more valuable now compared to their perceived value was in 2022. Those picks have real lottery potential now which few people thought at the time. We are NOT getting those picks back.

In 2022 no one knew that Ressler was going to kill the team's depth to save money or how dysfunctional and incompetent the FO  was.

 

 

[capstone21]

46 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Well, he leaves this summer and we are left with FAcy money.   I have my whole diagram of how it can work in the other thread.  He allows us to get out of some contracts and look at picking up a FA (I think) I would have to get @JayBirdHawk to go over the nimbers...

My action plan would be let him walk and pick up Claxton and a cheap contract for Harris and trade CC.

 

We are not a destination for free agents ... players are not clamoring to play with Trae either so great we have FA money and we sign players to bloated contracts to get them here.  I would stay away from Siakim

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Hawks need a 2 guard with size to replace Murray when we trade him.  Enter Kobe Bufkin.

Good post.  I do have to note that Kobe is far from big for a SG and isn't close to the size originally envisioned by TS to pair with Trae when he drafted Cam Reddish.  

Here are Bufkin's measurements from the draft combine:

6'4.25'' height

6'7.25'' wingspan

8'6.5'' standing reach

186.8 lb weight

He can bulk up but the rest of the numbers aren't going to change much.  

By way of comparison to Dejounte, he is a fraction of an inch taller while his wingspan and standing reach are smaller.  He is going to be giving up reach / height to a lot of 2s.  He probably weighs a few pounds more than DM but I am very concerned that a Trae / Kobe backcourt would be too small based on what we saw from Young / Murray.  It would be nice if Kobe hadn't played by far the fewest minutes of anyone drafted in the top 20 last year but that just isn't the case so we really have nothing to go on but hope and pedigree (saying that noting that Kobe didn't have an elite pedigree coming up but that he was at least projected in the range we took him).

Gueye has good size but he is a very raw second round pick so I think expecting him to contribute anytime soon is putting too much on him.  If he plays meaningful minutes on the floor anytime soon, that will be icing on the cake for me (as opposed to something I would rely on).

In short, I don't think starting minutes are coming for these two for a while unless we are desperate.

 

 

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Well, he leaves this summer and we are left with FAcy money.  

 

I just don't think building through FA is generally a good idea.  If you have pre-negotiated deals with players who will be FAs then great.  But UFA is generally an inefficient way to acquire talent and so much of it is outside of your control depending on whether the player wants to be somewhere else.  Much easier to pay extra and add proven vets than it is to find guys on "good" contracts.  You get great FA value when players have not proven what you think they can do but that comes with performance risk especially if you are paying based on that improvement (we did that with JC as if we were wooing some UFA and conversely got talent at a great price when Millsap was an UFA leaving Utah).  When players are proven, they generally get overpaid - Sap is a good example of this when he left us.   (Siakam is near the front of the line for guys hoping to get overpaid.)

[Diesel]

19 minutes ago, yungsta said:

In 2022 no one knew that Ressler was going to kill the team's depth to save money or how dysfunctional and incompetent the FO  was.

I think there was somebody who knew....

Spoiler

 

Brian Wright - General Manager - SAN ANTONIO SPURS

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

16 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

We are not a destination for free agents ... players are not clamoring to play with Trae either so great we have FA money and we sign players to bloated contracts to get them here.  I would stay away from Siakim

What are the free agent destinations, in your opinion.  And name some players who have went there.

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

What are the free agent destinations, in your opinion.  And name some players who have went there.

I think there isn't much in the way of true "destinations" outside of LA.  Most players are picking based on the money offered and their prospective role and teammates as opposed to all flocking to Miami for the beaches and break on taxes.

[ShooterSays]

 

Coincidence?

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

I just don't think building through FA is generally a good idea.  If you have pre-negotiated deals with players who will be FAs then great.  But UFA is generally an inefficient way to acquire talent and so much of it is outside of your control depending on whether the player wants to be somewhere else.  Much easier to pay extra and add proven vets than it is to find guys on "good" contracts.  You get great FA value when players have not proven what you think they can do but that comes with performance risk especially if you are paying based on that improvement (we did that with JC as if we were wooing some UFA and conversely got talent at a great price when Millsap was an UFA leaving Utah).  When players are proven, they generally get overpaid - Sap is a good example of this when he left us.   (Siakam is near the front of the line for guys hoping to get overpaid.)

The problem with Siakam is that he has identified where he wants to go and Philly will have the money to take him outright.  I would love to be able to trade Siakam in a SNT to Philly but I don't see the need for Philly to do that because they just give up what they don't need to .   Unless they want to loose themselves from a contract.   Just about everybody in Philly is on the last year of their deal. Unless, they just don't like what Spranger has to offer... they are just in the FAcy market too.  i dont think they will have to overpay Siakam.   He has cut off so many roads that signing him should be fairly easy.   This is why Ujiri should be running to make a deal with us for whatever they can get because he will walk for free if he makes it pass the deadline. 

 

As far as building through FAcy... I disagree a bit. It depends on who you have.   Lebron has never had a problem building through FAcy.  Trae/Quin would have to make Atlanta be the destination that FAcy want to come because of Promises of a Chip. 

 

[Spud2nique]

So DJ is sitting huh.. @Sothron  you tell them I tell you source to cut you right the fck off broh  

[AHF]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The problem with Siakam is that he has identified where he wants to go and Philly will have the money to take him outright.  I would love to be able to trade Siakam in a SNT to Philly but I don't see the need for Philly to do that because they just give up what they don't need to .   Unless they want to loose themselves from a contract.   Just about everybody in Philly is on the last year of their deal. Unless, they just don't like what Spranger has to offer... they are just in the FAcy market too.  i dont think they will have to overpay Siakam.   He has cut off so many roads that signing him should be fairly easy.   This is why Ujiri should be running to make a deal with us for whatever they can get because he will walk for free if he makes it pass the deadline. 

 

As far as building through FAcy... I disagree a bit. It depends on who you have.   Lebron has never had a problem building through FAcy.  Trae/Quin would have to make Atlanta be the destination that FAcy want to come because of Promises of a Chip. 

 

I think there are good reasons Philly would want to SNT for Siakam but I don't think they will offer all that much to make it happen.  It allows them to add a few lower cost free agents that they won't be able to afford if they sign Siakam outright.  

I'm just not big on us trading for Siakam at all at this point because I no longer view us as trying to compete this season which would be the purpose of renting him.  If we traded players for him to get out of contracts then I hope we would make it a three way deal and let him wind up somewhere else because I do think we would win more with him and I'm just not seeing that as a real benefit when this is our last pick for a while.  Coming off of a missed playoff season or play-in type of early exit (which I would think likely if we got him), relying on FAs to fill out the roster is a suspect plan in my mind.

[kg01]

52 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

We are not a destination for free agents ... players are not clamoring to play with Trae either so great we have FA money and we sign players to bloated contracts to get them here.  I would stay away from Siakim

As a Trae apologist, I'm cool with these statements so long as it's acknowledged that (a) there are really only 2-3 free agent destinations anyway so its not unusual to admit ATL isn't one and (b) there's literally no player that's "attracting guys to come play with" them.

Eta. There are no high level free agents clamoring to go to Loston to play with Tatum/Brown.    There's no clamoring to go to the Pacers. Guys are clamoring to get to Embiid.  Nobody's clamoring to sign with DAL.    None are clamoring to go to DEN for Jokic.

Shall I continue?  In fact, those last 2?  Guys 'clamored' to leave them via free agency.  I just want us to be sure what we're saying.

Edited January 10 by kg01

[Diesel]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

because I do think we would win more with him and I'm just not seeing that as a real benefit when this is our last pick for a while.  Coming off of a missed playoff season or play-in type of early exit (which I would think likely if we got him), relying on FAs to fill out the roster is a suspect plan in my mind.

Well, that's just it though. 

There's still a gang of games left to play.   Then the playoffs.   Who know how good that pairing would be.  That's the whole reason for the move.   Playoff/Playin is the expectation if Dre comes back and play.  Seriously.  However, with Siakam... We may be good enough to go to the ECF... that changes things in my view.   Even if we get swept... us getting there proves that we have a team that can win if you give us talent.   Therefore our next move is to go all out for talent. 

We will have plenty of time to tank and try to get picks that will rebuild a team once we trade Trae.  IMO Trae wanting out if we trade DJ for picks is more likely than us being a playin team with Siakam. 

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Well, that's just it though. 

There's still a gang of games left to play.   Then the playoffs.   Who know how good that pairing would be.  That's the whole reason for the move.   Playoff/Playin is the expectation if Dre comes back and play.  Seriously.  However, with Siakam... We may be good enough to go to the ECF... that changes things in my view.   Even if we get swept... us getting there proves that we have a team that can win if you give us talent.   Therefore our next move is to go all out for talent. 

We will have plenty of time to tank and try to get picks that will rebuild a team once we trade Trae.  IMO Trae wanting out if we trade DJ for picks is more likely than us being a playin team with Siakam. 

If we pay a rental price for Siakam, I am good with us getting him.  I just think Toronto wants a lot more.  Turning this ship around midseason is going to be a herculean task but if we rent Siakam and go for it I'll be cheering for us to make it happen.

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Wouldn't a bidding war suggest that the deal won't happen until the trade deadline?  That way they can extract maximum value for any player traded?  

That would kind of go against the thought that we would trade DJM as soon as he's allowed to be traded. 

We had a deal, the same deal @Mikey had some information on as well, close to go on the first day DJ was allowed to be traded.

Then other offers came in. Teams are doing what the Hawks really need: bidding against each other for DJ and other players. 

I still believe DJ will be traded before the deadline. It will just be a matter of choosing which offer to go with. 

[Vol4ever]

2 hours ago, capstone21 said:

Getting Siakam is a waste of time ... he is leaving at end of season so we are left with nothing.

For those with Rose Colored sunglasses that always seem to think players are going to sign here as free agents.  They are not.  We need to acquire players that will either grow and help us or help us right now with the intention of continuing to help us.

This is true.  We can't even get free agents when we are winning.