Hawks looking to trade

[Mikey]

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

No team should be able to acquire a player like Murray on a great contract for picks that are not just projected to be in the 20's but are projected in that range with an extremely high degree of confidence ala the Dallas 2024 pick or the Bucks 2025 pick.  

Bogi > Grimes.  A pick projected at 16 is worth a ton more than one at 26.  Just look at the expected value charts for historical picks.  These are not comparable.

There is no player that has value like Murray that we could ever get in flipping those picks.  It would have to be someone that a team was dumping for salary reasons or a rental like Siakam.  

Murray is average 21, 5 and 5 with an All-Star appearance, an All-NBA defense appearance, is 27 years old, and is on a team friendly contract for years.  DO NOT GIVE HIM AWAY FOR CRAPPY FIRST ROUND PICKS.

No easier way to tank this team for the next decade than doing something like that.  Trae will not stay to watch Kobe Bufkin 2.0 next season with the hopes of getting Kobe Bufkin 3.0 in two years.

See your fault is assuming the picks are automatically gonna be bad. There is no idea knowing where the picks land. Do they project to be great no but anything could happen. Especially when you get firsts years later like 2027. You’re also overrating djm value. Teams don’t value him as the player you described because he hasn’t shown he is that player in 2 years 

[Mikey]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

And I realize that with the talent on their roster being in their prime they won't be near the top of the draft.  If Curry gets injured GS's picks could be at the top  of the lottery.  Curry is 36 years old next season.  Klay is 33 with a history of major injuries.  Green could implode and find himself missing months of time or even an entire season if he punches someone again.  This is a team with real upside to not just be bad but to be terrible.

The Knicks have:

25 year old Hartstein

26 year old Anunoby

27 year old Murray (in this scenario)

27 year old Brunson

29 year old Randle

 

That team may not be title contenders but they will be in the playoffs the next few years.

 

You have to see the difference between the upside scenarios with these picks right?  Come on.

 

And that’s why they are weighing offers. You’re assuming golden state gonna offer an ideal package but just cause they have interest doesn’t mean they putting together an over the top package. 

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

No team should be able to acquire a player like Murray on a great contract for picks that are not just projected to be in the 20's but are projected in that range with an extremely high degree of confidence ala the Dallas 2024 pick or the Bucks 2025 pick.  

Bogi > Grimes.  A pick projected at 16 is worth a ton more than one at 26.  Just look at the expected value charts for historical picks.  These are not comparable.

There is no player that has value like Murray that we could ever get in flipping those picks.  It would have to be someone that a team was dumping for salary reasons or a rental like Siakam.  

Murray is average 21, 5 and 5 with an All-Star appearance, an All-NBA defense appearance, is 27 years old, and is on a team friendly contract for years.  DO NOT GIVE HIM AWAY FOR CRAPPY FIRST ROUND PICKS.

No easier way to tank this team for the next decade than doing something like that.  Trae will not stay to watch Kobe Bufkin 2.0 next season with the hopes of getting Kobe Bufkin 3.0 in two years.

Murray is a good starting point guard but he's not an all-star (backed his way in based on usage on a bad team) and he should have never got all-defense, which is stocks based and meaningless anyways.  2 picks projected to be mid first round seems fair to me.  That's basically what we paid to get him here, if you take into account we get a young guy on a rookie deal whereas we sent out bad/useless salary (Gallo)

[terrell]

11 minutes ago, GameTime said:

Kuminga, Wiggins and unprotected/pick swaps for DJM. Get it done.

Meh..

Kuminga isnt good imo

Wiggins contract is awful 

Keep looking LF

 

[AHF]

Just now, Mikey said:

See your fault is assuming the picks are automatically gonna be bad. There is no idea knowing where the picks land. Do they project to be great no but anything could happen. Especially when you get firsts years later like 2027. You’re also overrating djm value. Teams don’t value him as the player you described because he hasn’t shown he is that player in 2 years 

I'm not assuming they are bad at all.  I know you can get Manu Ginobili as a Hall of Famer with the 57th pick of the draft.  But the 57th pick is still absolute garbage as far as trade value.

Trade value is informed by the expected value of the pick.  We all know that the actual value of a pick depends on who is taken and has huge variability from guys who actively hurt their team being on the floor to guys who are All-NBA.  But the historical expected value should inform the value of the pick and thus the value of the trade offer.  Please take a look at those charts.  They should let you know that even with the guys who "hit" in that range of the draft the picks are just not that valuable unless your front office is waaaaayyyyyy better than the average GM at hitting on those picks.  And we have no track record of doing that with Fields and Korver.  Their picks this year haven't played one good minute of NBA basketball yet.

As far as teams valuing him, I didn't ask you to identify a player who is an All-Star this year.  I said give me a 20 & 5 player who could be had that cheaply.  He is that player today and he was that player last year.  Pick any 20 & 5 player on a good contract that you can find and let me know if we can get them for the Sacramento pick.  Because my guess is that we should just do that trade instead of unloading Dejounte if that is the case.

Here is a list to help:

Let me know if you think we can flip 2 late first round picks and Grimes for any of these guys.

[AHF]

14 minutes ago, Mikey said:

And that’s why they are weighing offers. You’re assuming golden state gonna offer an ideal package but just cause they have interest doesn’t mean they putting together an over the top package. 

I am NOT assuming that.  I was saying that if that offer was out there it would be infinitely more attractive than the New York poo-poo platter.

I doubt Golden State is dumb enough to give up unprotected first round picks like that.  But if they do it is 1000x better than what has been reported for New York.

And I'm agreeing with you that we should be weighing offers right up until the trade deadline.  Squeeze every bit of value we can out of this trade.  I'm all for that.  If the best you can get is Grimes and a couple of late firsts then try again this summer.  This isn't Siakam.  There isn't a ticking clock.  Get good value.

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Clearly players will be traded. It’s the NBA. Only 1% of the talk is truly frameworks that are discussed. If it wasn’t, they wouldn’t be good general managers.

Would you want your personal negotiations being discussed elsewhere?

Going back to the last year:

Jake Fischer first hinted at DJM re-signing.

Nobody had Bey coming to us.

Nobody saw Huerter going to the Kings.

JC moving to Jazz was linked but for only a 2nd rounder was never discussed.

 

It’s all entertainment this message board and twitter. The real truth is so far away.

 

[Poster specific comment removed.]

If a GM or a team rep has knowledge of something going down or about to go down, the last place they want it to show up is on a messageboard... and if it did, there's going to be a meeting called and every phone will be checked.   I'm 1000% sure that even the guys like Shams and Woj.. are feeding pure speculation and every now and then somebody drops them a crumb purposefully so that the crumb can make it out so that they can get an upper hand in negotiations. 

Somebody may have information that Ujiri got an incoming call from a 404 area code.  Then they put out there that Ujiri is negotiating with the Hawks.  Then they go to look at who the Hawks have and who the Raptors have that can be traded.   Then they postulate the trade and say it's insider content.    Well, it is insider content because somebody knows he received a call, but what if He son is in Atlanta for the week... and he called his dad?

If Ujiri talks with his son in Atlanta for 3 days in a row, some "insider" will say that the negotiations are getting stronger.  It looks like it's Siakam and Gary Trent Jr. going to the Hawks for ....  whatever they postulated based on instagram posts and what not. 

Didn't you notice that the noise on Dj being traded got a strong uptick when they reported that he took all of his Hawk related material off of Instagram.   I went to his Instagram page and it was not true.  First pictures I saw were him and Trae... and then a post about the Falcons firing Smith.     So this noise to me is just noise.  Entertainment.  It will run its course.   R U not entertained??

 

 

 

[JeffS17]

Just now, terrell said:

Meh..

Kuminga isnt good imo

Wiggins contract is awful 

Keep looking LF

 

I actually like Kuminga for this squad.  He has a good foundation of a post game and he plays super aggressive which we need.  Decent instincts off ball and he's good in transition.  I think he would be a nice bench piece for us now with upside.  Wiggins contract is basically the same as Murrays -- it's not bad in my opinion.  The guy looked like he should have been finals MVP on their '22 run.  Low floor high ceiling player that is volatile, but the fit is better with Trae than with Murray and I think we would improve significantly with him in our squad.  He doesn't have the albatross max contract Minnesota gave him years ago... only takes up 18% of the cap.  It's a decent contract.

[JTB]

31 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Wiggins is ass and his contract is terrible. Contract year Wiggins is the only Wiggins I like

 

5 minutes ago, terrell said:

Meh..

Kuminga isnt good imo

Wiggins contract is awful 

Keep looking LF

 

Wow ! Guess I been under a rock …I thought Wiggins had changed since being in GS,

[AHF]

2 minutes ago, JTB said:

 

Wow ! Guess I been under a rock …I thought Wiggins had changed since being in GS,

[macdaddy]

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

why'd he miss so much last year?  I don't remember.  at 28 i like his chances of returning to form.  he's been solid for GS

[Vol4ever]

2 hours ago, LucastheThird said:

I'm on to you @Sothron

 

NBA Exec Hints at Knicks Next Move After OG Anunoby Trade - Heavy.com

 

 

I would do this in a heartbeat.   

[cam1218]

35 minutes ago, JTB said:

 

Wow ! Guess I been under a rock …I thought Wiggins had changed since being in GS,

Wiggins went from being the underachieving top guy to being a role player on a winning team. That changes the narrative a lot. Solid player but he’s not going to move the needle for most teams.

[cam1218]

2 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

I would do this in a heartbeat.   

Are you assuming JJ plays more at the 3? I see a potential log jam in our front court with JJ/CC/OO here. Glad to be wrong though. Value wise, at least there is a decent player.

[yungsta]

25 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

why'd he miss so much last year?  I don't remember.  at 28 i like his chances of returning to form.  he's been solid for GS

He was out for personal reasons but outside of his contract year in 2022 he has been a low energy wing that doesn't rebound, play make, and has very inconsistent defense. He has regressed over the past 2 seasons and was benched for a rookie earlier in the season.

It took a strong championship leadership and pending free agency to get to him to play with effort consistently and that lasted only 1 season.

I wouldn't gamble on him. His contract is awful. He is owed about 30m per year for the next 3 years.

 

Edited January 10 by yungsta

[hylndr11]

Randle been pretty good this year.  Doubt they are offering that.  

[Packfill]

4 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Randle been pretty good this year.  Doubt they are offering that.  

Plus the Knicks have such a dearth of big men then can't possibly trade one without getting another back in return.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

Well, he leaves this summer and we are left with FAcy money.   I have my whole diagram of how it can work in the other thread.  He allows us to get out of some contracts and look at picking up a FA (I think) I would have to get @JayBirdHawk to go over the nimbers...

My action plan would be let him walk and pick up Claxton and a cheap contract for Harris and trade CC.

 

If we trade for Siakam and then he walks, Hawks are still over the salary cap. So no real FA money. We'd still have the JC TPE, and maybe another TPE if we do a SnT with Siakam.

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Hawks can offer him the 5th year, and a hell of a lot more money, due to us having his Bird Rights.

Hawks shouldn't sign him to a 5 year deal (no deal longer than Trae's current deal), I don't think any team wants to and will give him a 5yr max.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, Vol4ever said:

This is true.  We can't even get free agents when we are winning.   

You need real FA money and space under the salary cap to sign top end FAs. The last time we did, we added Gallo and Bogi. Before that it was Milsap and Carroll.