For all those who are still crying over the LUKA TRADE....

[Diesel]

Luka talking to Mark and Jason. 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Caption this...

 

 

This is me waiting for any of the Luka Lamenters to answer the question, what has Luka done. 

 

Individually, there's no doubt that Luka has more accolades, because the media anointed him the successor to Lebron from Day 1.  Multiple 1st team All-NBA selections.   30 - 8 - 8 player.  He's definitely an elite talent.

If the Hawks selected him, he would be beloved here.

Having said that, you are correct.  From a team standpoint, he has done nothing more than Trae has done.

It would be like comparing Damian Lillard to Donovan Mitchell.  Who is the guy you'd want between the two?

Lillard gets all of the accolades.  And people would probably choose Dame without hesitation.

But . . . .

Lillard's playoff record:

• 22 - 39 overall in the playoffs - ( 36.1% win percentage )
• 1 Conference Finals appearance ( got swept )
• 4 - 12 in playoff series - ( 33% win percentage )
• 5 first round losses ( got swept in 3 of those 1st round losses )

Mitchell's playoff record:

• 18 - 26 overall in the playoffs - ( 40.9% win percentage )
• 0 Conference Finals appearances
• 2 - 6 in playoff series - ( 33% win percentage )
• 4 first round losses ( never swept in the 1st round )

 

The craziest thing about this, is that I just pulled Mitchell's name out of the blue.  I had no idea that the playoff comparison would be this close, with as much hype as Dame gets as a great player.  Might as well throw Trae and Luka in, and compare the 4 players

 

Luka's playoff record:

• 12 - 16 overall in the playoffs - ( 42.9% win percentage )
• 1 Conference Finals appearance
• 2 - 3 in playoff series - ( 40% win percentage )
• 2 first round losses ( never swept )

 

Trae's playoff record

• 12 - 15 overall in the playoffs - ( 44.4% win percentage )
• 1 Conference Finals appearance
• 2 - 3 in playoff series = ( 40% win percentage )
• 2 first round losses ( never swept )

Edited December 11, 2023 by TheNorthCydeRises

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Lillard's playoff record:

• 22 - 39 overall in the playoffs - ( 36.1% win percentage )
• 1 Conference Finals appearance ( got swept )
• 4 - 12 in playoff series - ( 33% win percentage )
• 5 first round losses ( got swept in 3 of those 1st round losses )

 

That should be 4 - 8 in playoff series.  Win % still the same.

[Diesel]

30 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Luka's playoff record:

• 12 - 16 overall in the playoffs - ( 42.9% win percentage )
• 1 Conference Finals appearance
• 2 - 3 in playoff series - ( 40% win percentage )
• 2 first round losses ( never swept )

 

Trae's playoff record

• 12 - 15 overall in the playoffs - ( 44.4% win percentage )
• 1 Conference Finals appearance
• 2 - 3 in playoff series = ( 40% win percentage )
• 2 first round losses ( never swept )

THIS....

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, Luka has done no more than Trae... In fact, Trae has a better record in the playoffs. 

People talk about how hard it is to build around Trae... Have you seen the difficulty in building around Luka??

“On paper, it would be the perfect fit, but it just didn’t mesh the way that we wanted to,” Porzingis told Yahoo Sports. “We just did not mesh together well. Sometimes it’s like that in the workplace, you know? It just didn’t work out the way you expected.”

Porzingis described Doncic as being a "generational talent" and understands the need to maximize his impact as the priority. He just doesn't feel as though he was "the right guy" to be his co-star. 

“Luka is a generational talent. You have to put the perfect team around him to try to get the maximum out of him, you know?” Porzingis said. “I just wasn’t the right guy.”

• Diwiddie had to go.
• Brunson had to go. 

Doncic go through Teammates like Trae goes through coaches... 

Not to mention Doncic and his coaching preferences...

It's an early chapter in the Luka Doncic story, an origin point for rising distrust and tension between the team's young star and his coach -- and an indication the relationship would have an expiration date.

"He brought a championship to Dallas," Doncic said after a win in Memphis on Dec. 8, "and everybody respects him."

Those are the most extensive comments Doncic, who declined to be interviewed for this story, has made about Carlisle since the coach's resignation from Dallas in June. Carlisle, now the Indiana Pacers' coach, missed Friday's Mavericks-Pacers game after testing positive for COVID-19.

New coach Jason Kidd and the Mavericks are 27 games into an effort to clear three seasons' worth of dysfunction, disillusionment and blowups that cracked the foundation of a franchise built around a superstar who has yet to win a playoff series.

[Plainview1981]

3 hours ago, Diesel said:

So now, you answer my question with a question...   I see how this works.. when you don't have an answer, you change the subject...  Cool...

So let's just establish that Luka has accomplished NOTHING.

If Luke is the better player.. so be it.. but what has he accomplished???  Nothing!

 

Only I didn't just answer your "question with a question". Making light of what you feel is Luka's perceived lack of success in defense of player that has done much himself... it makes your question rather pointless.

All I have to point out is that Luka is the better player. He has been better than Trae in both the regular season and the playoffs. 

Trae has had free reign to shoot when he wants and to dominate it. Of course he has two basic stats filled up. Awesome, but he is partly a product of this era. I can only imagine how bad his shooting would be in a late 90' NBA.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Plainview1981

[kg01]

Lol, don't expect to get any answers @Diesel.  They don't wanna admit Harden 2.0 isnt the generational player they claim he is. 

The response is "he's better because I say so".  Smh 

[AHF]

Complaining about drafting Trae because you could have drafted Luka is like complaining that you drafted Hakeem because you could have draffed Jordan or that you drafted Vince Carter when you could have drafted Paul Pierce.  (Obviously not equating all those players).  Both teams got great players.  This is not a situation where we passed on Vince and PP to draft Michael Olowokandi.  
 

Just wasted energy.  If we “missed” on all our lottery picks like we did with Trae we would be in great shape right now.  But we can’t go back in time and we don’t know how things would have played out (maybe Luka demands a trade from Atlanta or Trae has more success elsewhere so we are bemoaning things from the other side in that alternate reality).  Just not the most interesting topic for me personally.

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

Trae has had free reign to shoot when he wants and to dominate it. Of course he has two basic stats filled up. Awesome, but he is partly a product of this era. I can only imagine how bad his shooting would be in a late 90' NBA.

And Luka in the late 90s?  None of todays stars would have flourished in the 90s.. I heard Ray Allen who played in both eras say.. that the 90s would have chewed up any star from today...including Lebron.  However, that's just a decoy you put out there.  A herring.   Nothing to really talk about hots...

What about What Luka has done??   All day long you can say he is the better player than Trae... I'm not even arguing that... What has he done though??  This question is specially for you because you come off as Hypocritical if you don't see Nique as a great player because he had no chips.. didn't see Joe Johnson as a great player because he had no chips... Has been one of the most pessimestic Hawks fans in history because the Hawks haven't won a chip... ... I took that to mean that you expect accomplishments....   How is it that you now claim Luka to be all that and he hasn't done anything?  He doesn't even have a better playoff record than sorry Trae. 

 

[Wretch]

If the trade was reversed, and Trae was putting up these numbers in any other city, the media would celebrate him.  Meanwhile, we'd have this pretty good, but not great player that needs to be less selfish and play better defense to take the next step.  The haters battle cry would be, "He's great regular season player.  He puts up great stats, but his defense is killing us.  I'd trade him for Jalen Brown in a heartbeat."

It really is a case of both teams getting an elite player.  Haters have just bought into the popular narrative - aka the Hype Machine as you like to put it.

[macdaddy]

The sooner we put a real team around Trae the sooner all this talk goes away.  

[Packfill]

Based on what we know today I would trade Trae for Luka if given the opportunity.  I think the vast majority of NBA GMs would as well.  

That does not mean Trae is not a good player.  

 

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, Packfill said:

Based on what we know today I would trade Trae for Luka if given the opportunity.  I think the vast majority of NBA GMs would as well.  

That does not mean Trae is not a good player.  

 

And it doesn't matter much if Luka is better.  All that matters is who wins.  If Trae was a bust it'd be different. 

Harden was a better player than a lot of guys in his prime.   

[AHF]

7 minutes ago, Packfill said:

Based on what we know today I would trade Trae for Luka if given the opportunity.  I think the vast majority of NBA GMs would as well.  

That does not mean Trae is not a good player.  

 

I think that is a reasonable position but who cares?  Based on what we know five years after a draft, I can make great calls about that draft.  That isn't particularly insightful. 

In terms of hypothetical trades, Luka is not available to any team for a trade so why bother talking about whether you would trade Trae or DM or 3 first round picks or whatever?  It is like saying you would trade Kobe for Wemby.  Ok.  So what?  That isn't going to happen regardless.  Wemby isn't available at almost any price. 

At least with someone like Siakam or OG, it is highly probable that he is in fact traded so there is meat on the bone for meaningful discussion.  Luka is the franchise for the Mavs and not going anywhere.

The  more interesting discussion around Luka to me is around roster building decisions that the Mavs have made where they have had multiple studs play with him and made interesting choices with Brunson, Kyrie, Porzingis, etc.

[Gray Mule]

3 minutes ago, Packfill said:

Based on what we know today I would trade Trae for Luka if given the opportunity.  I think the vast majority of NBA GMs would as well.  

That does not mean Trae is not a good player.  

 

Don't forget, Atlanta traded Luka for Trae Young and Cam Reddish!  If the Hawks still had Reddish, would you still do a two for one swap?  When Reddish left, he became a part of our deal for Murray.  Reddish now starts for the Lakers...

[Packfill]

Just now, Gray Mule said:

Don't forget, Atlanta traded Luka for Trae Young and Cam Reddish!  If the Hawks still had Reddish, would you still do a two for one swap?  When Reddish left, he became a part of our deal for Murray.  Reddish now starts for the Lakers...

Reddish to me is replacement level, so I would have absolutely no problem jettisoning him as well.

[Packfill]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think that is a reasonable position but who cares?  Based on what we know five years after a draft, I can make great calls about that draft.  That isn't particularly insightful. 

In terms of hypothetical trades, Luka is not available to any team for a trade so why bother talking about whether you would trade Trae or DM or 3 first round picks or whatever?  It is like saying you would trade Kobe for Wemby.  Ok.  So what?  That isn't going to happen regardless.  Wemby isn't available at almost any price. 

At least with someone like Siakam or OG, it is highly probable that he is in fact traded so there is meat on the bone for meaningful discussion.  Luka is the franchise for the Mavs and not going anywhere.

The  more interesting discussion around Luka to me is around roster building decisions that the Mavs have made where they have had multiple studs play with him and made interesting choices with Brunson, Kyrie, Porzingis, etc.

I think my response was in line with the scope of the thread.  I don't disagree with you though. 

I think the Mavs have made more mistakes then the Hawks in terms of building rosters around their young star, but they have also been much more proactive trying to remedy those mistakes versus the Hawks.   

[Plainview1981]

5 hours ago, Diesel said:

And Luka in the late 90s?  None of todays stars would have flourished in the 90s.. I heard Ray Allen who played in both eras say.. that the 90s would have chewed up any star from today...including Lebron.  However, that's just a decoy you put out there.  A herring.   Nothing to really talk about hots...

What about What Luka has done??   All day long you can say he is the better player than Trae... I'm not even arguing that... What has he done though??  This question is specially for you because you come off as Hypocritical if you don't see Nique as a great player because he had no chips.. didn't see Joe Johnson as a great player because he had no chips... Has been one of the most pessimestic Hawks fans in history because the Hawks haven't won a chip... ... I took that to mean that you expect accomplishments....   How is it that you now claim Luka to be all that and he hasn't done anything?  He doesn't even have a better playoff record than sorry Trae. 

 

Luka would work better in the 90's than Trae. Trae's inefficiency in terms of shooting and shot selection would be a problem. In addition to his poor defense of lack of size.

Would Luka post the numbers he does now in the 90''s? Absolutely not. But with guys like Pippen, Grant Hill and Toni Kukoc coming into the league, Luka's skill set would already be valuable . More so than a bad defending PG with poor shot selection.

The reason it doesn't really work that you call me a hypocrite because I defend Luka who has no title is because we are directly comparing two players from the same draft class who have Similar levels of playoff records.

If I was trying to compare Luka to The Joker your complaint would make sense. Or if even Trae had more notable playoff success than Luka, but I would still rather have Luka... It would at least make your accusation have some merit.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Packfill said:

I think my response was in line with the scope of the thread.  I don't disagree with you though. 

I think the Mavs have made more mistakes then the Hawks in terms of building rosters around their young star, but they have also been much more proactive trying to remedy those mistakes versus the Hawks.   

 

It's hard to call what Dallas has done mistakes without knowing what they have had to deal with trying to find the right players to play with Luka.   Luka is a great player and maybe a generational talent... but guys run from him like the plague.  Porzingis said a lot when he said, we look good on paper, we just didn't mesh.   Where is the clash between a 7 foot big and a do it all PG/PF?   It's like if Kareem said he couldn't function with Magic?  We see the breakup and say.. "yeah, i can see how they didn't work together."  We can??  How?  They get their points in a different way.  They should have had the best synergy in the world.  

Then Dallas don't make a play for Brunson?   The Knicks made a 20 Million dollar pitch and Dallas was out?  For the cost of Dre Hunter, the Knicks got Brunson out of Dallas.  Does that make any sense?  Not unless there was an issue. 

 

 

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Then Dallas don't make a play for Brunson?   The Knicks made a 20 Million dollar pitch and Dallas was out?  For the cost of Dre Hunter, the Knicks got Brunson out of Dallas.  Does that make any sense?  Not unless there was an issue. 

Yep.  And then they go out and get Kyrie for double the cost. 

[JeffS17]

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's hard to call what Dallas has done mistakes without knowing what they have had to deal with trying to find the right players to play with Luka.

It's not that hard.  They've fumbled a bunch and mismanaged that roster

 

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Porzingis said a lot when he said, we look good on paper, we just didn't mesh.   Where is the clash between a 7 foot big and a do it all PG/PF?

They didn't mesh.  IMO it was largely a coaching and personnel issue but they didn't play well together at all.

 

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The Knicks made a 20 Million dollar pitch and Dallas was out?

Brunson is making $25M/year* on a descending schedule.  Dallas messed up not extending him early.

 

On 12/9/2023 at 6:46 PM, terrell said:

Robert Horry "accomplished" more than Charles Barkley using your logic... You taking him over Barkley? lol. Stop man..

If you think Trae is better than Luka thats fine...

This should have been the end of the thread.

Trae is a very good player and is fun to watch, but he's not better than Luka.  Anyone that watches both players play can see that Luka is a better player.  He has a much higher floor and imo he has a higher ceiling as well, due to Trae's lack of size.  Having your primary ball handler be 6'7" makes roster building much easier.  He's not a good defender but you can build around him much, much, easier.  Trae is much harder to build around because of how small he is.  And on offense, being able to self-create efficiently is absolutely invaluable.  Luka does that much, much, better than Trae, which is why he's way more efficient in the playoffs (TS 53% versus 58%; eFG 46% versus 55%).

This post is delusional and makes our fan base look really insecure, time to move on.