Tanking is the best option for the Hawks right now.

[kg01]

15 hours ago, Final_quest said:

 

Imagine this projection with either keeping Collins at $27M or adding Thybulle @ 4 years $14M.  We’re a few million away from the second apron without those guys.  

The solutions you guys present for this year actually do create roster questions that are hard to manage for next year.

The funny thing is everyone wants to play Kobe, AJ, and I’m sure whoever we draft in 2024, but if we cut guys like Bey, Capela, and Bogi you guys will complain they are salary dumps and we’re not trying to add talent.

Apart from spend more money, I never hear a legitimate idea.  Signing Thybulle or keeping Collins pushes your cap allocations to $198M or higher for next year.  

So the proposal I hear is play 4 draft picks as much as possible while also keeping guys like Bey, Thybulle/Niang, and Bogi for the bench.  Not to mention the issue with what do with Capela/Okongwu.  

Looking for real answers going forward.  It’s not an easy fix.  

IDGAF tho.  Nobody gives AF.

It's hard but that's the job.  So far, all they've done is the easy stuff, i.e. 'cut salary, avoid tax'.

Hope, this cycle, they do the hard stuff, i.e. 'figure it TF out'..

Also, playing the salary game the way you're presenting it is just like looking at the box score and going, "we scored 115 but, if Trae played, we woulda scored 145 (115 + his 30)".

There's no way to know how the roster moves would've shook out had we, for example, kept Collins.  Jussayin. 

[ABH]

DOOM !!!

[Sothron]

Capela's decline at that money is killing us. Hunter to his credit is having his best season as a pro. 

We need to move Capela something awful in the offseason.

[theheroatl]

4 hours ago, Sothron said:

Capela's decline at that money is killing us. Hunter to his credit is having his best season as a pro. 

We need to move Capela something awful in the offseason.

We really should have moved him by trade deadline for whatever deal there was.. His value will be so bad in the offseason he will be a negative asset that has to get packaged with a pick.

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

We really should have moved him by trade deadline for whatever deal there was.. His value will be so bad in the offseason he will be a negative asset that has to get packaged with a pick.

We don't have enough assets for that. We could do a trade back thing like Dallas did with OKC in the last draft to get rid of Davis Bertans contract 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, Sothron said:

Capela's decline at that money is killing us. Hunter to his credit is having his best season as a pro. 

We need to move Capela something awful in the offseason.

Trade deadline 2022 (eligible after signing an extension, I made reference it made him easier to trade vs him being expiring that year), offseason 2022, Trade deadline 2023, offseason 2023, trade deadline 2024.....and now offseason 2024... hr was available for trade for the past 2 years.

The viscious cycle continues of putting our players on the active trade market only to do nothing until the trade value is Nil.

[shakes]

If Hawks were smart (whcih they aren't) and had long term vision (which they don't) they would pounce on this trade to SAS and unload Trae to them, get back all their picks + 1-2 more FRPs or assets.   Then unload DJM for 1-2 FRP.  Then unload Hunter, OO, Bogi and anyone else who can net a draft pick.  Hang onto JJ nad no one else.

Put together the worst team in the league next year and go full in the bag for Flagg.

 

As great as Trae is he's too hard to build around for the Hawks owners and FO.  Way above their skill level and means.  Only a great franchise and FO could make it work arond Trae and this team has neither.

 

Time to accept that and move on to the next rendition.  Best way to do that is total tank.  Not some half ass tank.

 

Face it, THIS TEAM WILL NEVER WIN WITH TRAE.  The sooner the team accepts that (as in must be accepted this off season) the greater chance they have of finally turning this mediocrity standard bearer around.

[KB21]

3 hours ago, theheroatl said:

We really should have moved him by trade deadline for whatever deal there was.. His value will be so bad in the offseason he will be a negative asset that has to get packaged with a pick.

Since it is expiring after next season, I don't think you will have to add a pick to get someone to take him.  You just may have to take back a salary that doesn't help you and get very little value in the form of a pick.

[Spud2nique]

Every loss we have is unintentional tanking.

-The Outsiders {guess whose back… back again.. ) 

[JeffS17]

On 3/3/2024 at 2:11 AM, NBASupes said:

Not having a 2025 1st will force our owner to finally pay the LT. 

I agree with this, assuming we don't go above the first apron this upcoming season. 2025 also lines up with our next reasonable opportunity to pay the tax, which will be JJs extension kicking in.

[Spud2nique]

I want to win .

 

  sorry y’all at this point I’m just a Sloth Goonies Hawks fan in my basement.

I dunno what the heck we are doing, not sure the plan, my thoughts are scrambled.

 

All I got is..

 

Go Hawks!!!

[JeffS17]

On 3/2/2024 at 11:41 AM, Final_quest said:

 

Imagine this projection with either keeping Collins at $27M or adding Thybulle @ 4 years $14M.  We’re a few million away from the second apron without those guys.  

The solutions you guys present for this year actually do create roster questions that are hard to manage for next year.

The funny thing is everyone wants to play Kobe, AJ, and I’m sure whoever we draft in 2024, but if we cut guys like Bey, Capela, and Bogi you guys will complain they are salary dumps and we’re not trying to add talent.

Apart from spend more money, I never hear a legitimate idea.  Signing Thybulle or keeping Collins pushes your cap allocations to $198M or higher for next year.  

So the proposal I hear is play 4 draft picks as much as possible while also keeping guys like Bey, Thybulle/Niang, and Bogi for the bench.  Not to mention the issue with what do with Capela/Okongwu.  

Looking for real answers going forward.  It’s not an easy fix.  

Our roster is very flawed from a fit perspective, and we have a lot of contracts that are effectively bad money, for a number of reasons: some overpays, some decline, and injury issues.  There are a lot of things to overcome from a roster construction stand point which means the only viable path forward is patience, which most here do not have -- which is why the proposed solutions are to throw money at the problem, i.e go into the tax!!!

The reality is there are no $20M/year players that are going to fix our issues.  There's no tax scenario even possible that has us contending.  We don't need more players, we need better players.  Maybe we eek out a couple extra wins with better bench depth, but a couple extra wins isn't even the difference between us getting into the play-in or a 6 seed.  We need to re-prioritize where our dollars are going (we spend waaayyyy too much on our back court) and we need to develop guys to create value contracts.  That is necessary for any path forward.

[Sothron]

2 hours ago, shakes said:

If Hawks were smart (whcih they aren't) and had long term vision (which they don't) they would pounce on this trade to SAS and unload Trae to them, get back all their picks + 1-2 more FRPs or assets.   Then unload DJM for 1-2 FRP.  Then unload Hunter, OO, Bogi and anyone else who can net a draft pick.  Hang onto JJ nad no one else.

Put together the worst team in the league next year and go full in the bag for Flagg.

 

As great as Trae is he's too hard to build around for the Hawks owners and FO.  Way above their skill level and means.  Only a great franchise and FO could make it work arond Trae and this team has neither.

 

Time to accept that and move on to the next rendition.  Best way to do that is total tank.  Not some half ass tank.

 

Face it, THIS TEAM WILL NEVER WIN WITH TRAE.  The sooner the team accepts that (as in must be accepted this off season) the greater chance they have of finally turning this mediocrity standard bearer around.

I agree with all of this except the last part. We were a healthy Trae away from going to the Finals and winning it. Two wins away actually.

But I don't have any faith, at all, in Tony Ressler and his penny pinching ways despite being rich as hell. A complete rebuild around Jalen is what I would do at this point but I can't see Tony moving off his golden goose.

[JeffS17]

2 hours ago, shakes said:

If Hawks were smart (whcih they aren't) and had long term vision (which they don't) they would pounce on this trade to SAS and unload Trae to them, get back all their picks + 1-2 more FRPs or assets.   Then unload DJM for 1-2 FRP.  Then unload Hunter, OO, Bogi and anyone else who can net a draft pick.  Hang onto JJ nad no one else.

Put together the worst team in the league next year and go full in the bag for Flagg.

 

As great as Trae is he's too hard to build around for the Hawks owners and FO.  Way above their skill level and means.  Only a great franchise and FO could make it work arond Trae and this team has neither.

 

Time to accept that and move on to the next rendition.  Best way to do that is total tank.  Not some half ass tank.

 

Face it, THIS TEAM WILL NEVER WIN WITH TRAE.  The sooner the team accepts that (as in must be accepted this off season) the greater chance they have of finally turning this mediocrity standard bearer around.

I don't disagree with this as a viable approach but betting on an, at best, 14% chance at the #1 pick is quite silly.  Hoping to hit in the lottery is a strategy that can leave you looking like the Pistons for years.  I'd rather just focus on creating/maintaining a winning culture, player development, and savvy trades.  So far, this FO has done well post-DJ trade.  This offseason will be a big test though.

[AHF]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

I don't disagree with this as a viable approach but betting on an, at best, 14% chance at the #1 pick is quite silly.  Hoping to hit in the lottery is a strategy that can leave you looking like the Pistons for years.  I'd rather just focus on creating/maintaining a winning culture, player development, and savvy trades. 

Fully agree with this.

Quote

So far, this FO has done well post-DJ trade. 

Eh.  They haven't hit a home run or absolutely struck out.  TBD on how much this FO can produce.

Quote

This offseason will be a big test though.

Huge test.  Fingers are crossed.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Our roster is very flawed from a fit perspective, and we have a lot of contracts that are effectively bad money, for a number of reasons: some overpays, some decline, and injury issues.  There are a lot of things to overcome from a roster construction stand point which means the only viable path forward is patience, which most here do not have -- which is why the proposed solutions are to throw money at the problem, i.e go into the tax!!!

The reality is there are no $20M/year players that are going to fix our issues.  There's no tax scenario even possible that has us contending.  We don't need more players, we need better players.  Maybe we eek out a couple extra wins with better bench depth, but a couple extra wins isn't even the difference between us getting into the play-in or a 6 seed.  We need to re-prioritize where our dollars are going (we spend waaayyyy too much on our back court) and we need to develop guys to create value contracts.  That is necessary for any path forward.

I think our FO has talked out of both sides of their mouths with their actions.

• They gave Hunter, JC, CC, etc. big extensions indicating they believed future growth was coming (or no deterioration in the case of CC).
• They gave up a lot for DJM indicating they believed he was a missing a piece.
• They largely held onto our core rather than doing mixing and matching with the roster indicating they thought the fit was good.

But then at the same time these things happened, they also started doing things that signaled they didn't fully believe in these players like shopping guys they extended within a year of extending them and the team like cutting payroll assuming we would not contend before the season even started.  

It raises questions in my mind like:

• Why give such large extensions if you don't believe these guys are good enough to push you into contention?  Why such long extensions if you aren't willing to see them through several years of development under the current coach?
• Why give up so much in a trade for a guy who will be an UFA in two years if  you don't think you can contend over the two years that you know you will have him?
• Why give guys extensions to players if you don't think they fit?  Why don't you trade some people for better fits if you don't believe in the roster's fit?

The FO more than anything needs to get grounded in a consistent view of this team and the franchise and plot a path forward with these players and then stick to the plan.  (Obviously, you have to adapt the details as things change but you don't change the core strategy and we seem to flip from seller to buyers and back again on a week to week basis.)

[Gray Mule]

There is a difference.  I know.  Skyhawks continue to win!  These are our young Hawks!  Mostly we have them on "ignore."  Some of them will be in Atlanta next season.  Winning has become a habit with them.

Atlanta may trade some of this season's current 15 man roster or they may simply release them.  Hawks must make room for some of these Skyhawk players.  Our new, 2024 draft picks will either be Hawks or Skyhawks, depending on who we draft and what position they play.

What this year's Hawk team does will have very little difference about what happens this summer.  We are too bad to be great and we're too good to be rotten bad.  Stuck halfway between.  

[shakes]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

I agree with all of this except the last part. We were a healthy Trae away from going to the Finals and winning it. Two wins away actually.

 

turns out, that fluke playoff run was the absolute worst thing that could've happened this team.  

 

The fact that you're bringing it up as a reason to hesitate in blowing this team up shows that the damage done by that ECF run is still happening.

[shakes]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

I don't disagree with this as a viable approach but betting on an, at best, 14% chance at the #1 pick is quite silly.  Hoping to hit in the lottery is a strategy that can leave you looking like the Pistons for years.  I'd rather just focus on creating/maintaining a winning culture, player development, and savvy trades.  So far, this FO has done well post-DJ trade.  This offseason will be a big test though.

The % chance of this team building a contender around Trae is lower than 14% IMO.

 

And even if you don't sag enough to tag Flagg there are still other great prospects at the top of that draft.  And you are in place to do it again in 2026.  Time for an OKC type of rebuild.

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, shakes said:

The % chance of this team building a contender around Trae is lower than 14% IMO.

 

And even if you don't sag enough to tag Flagg there are still other great prospects at the top of that draft.  And you are in place to do it again in 2026.  Time for an OKC type of rebuild.

I do not trust this FO to pull off an OKC rebuild that most franchises have completely floundered trying to do.  Presti's tank and rebuild is a huge anomaly, not the norm.