Bey has a torn ACL, Damn man!

[Final_quest]

I’m expecting he doesn’t get a deal with us for anything like $6-10M.  It’s the NBA we need someone to play next year.  This is bad timing for Bey.  
 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

17 hours ago, bleachkit said:

How do you pull the plug exactly? Should players give hard hearted effort on the court? That's not a good look. The league frowns on not playing healthy starters. 

You pull the plug by not playing Murray 39 minutes a night, which is what he has averaged the past 4 games.

[theheroatl]

14 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You pull the plug by not playing Murray 39 minutes a night, which is what he has averaged the past 4 games.

I don’t think the FO knows anything about tanking. It takes determination because feathers will be ruffled and I don’t think they have the balls to sit DJ who would complain about not playing and not wanting to win.

 

i think they only know one mantra, hawks dna, which of course so far has been mid af

[KB21]

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

I don’t think the FO knows anything about tanking. It takes determination because feathers will be ruffled and I don’t think they have the balls to sit DJ who would complain about not playing and not wanting to win.

 

i think they only know one mantra, hawks dna, which of course so far has been mid af

Hawks DNA is much better than "Hey, let's intentionally lose games so we can get a higher draft pick to take some guy whose three to four years away from contributing to winning basketball!"

[JayBirdHawk]

13 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

I would love to lock him in on a multi-year deal at $10M per or less.  ACL tear means he won't play next season, or at least most of it, so I feel like that's a fair compromise.  

 

10 hours ago, Diesel said:

3 year 30 Million with a PO after year 2. 

It's very fair.   Allows him to go out and test the market after 1.5 good years of play with us on a cheapie deal. 

 

So we are paying him $10 next year to rehab, then $10 mil in his 1st year back from the injury....year 3 should be a TO.

But and it's a big But(t) :

For a team that is currently in a salary crunch, and approaching LT issues and need adequate depth next season (I THINK NEXT SEASON WILL BE MOST IMPORTANT SEASON), do we want to tie up $10 mil (that's $2 mil shy of an MLE contract) on a player that we know won't be able to contribute next season? Harsh I know....but it needs saying.

[AHF]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

I’m expecting he doesn’t get a deal with us for anything like $6-10M.  It’s the NBA we need someone to play next year.  This is bad timing for Bey.  
 

 

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

So we are paying him $10 next year to rehab, then $10 mil in his 1st year back from the injury....year 3 should be a TO.

But and it's a big But(t) :

For a team that is currently in a salary crunch, and approaching LT issues and need adequate depth next season (I THINK NEXT SEASON WILL BE MOST IMPORTANT SEASON), do we want to tie up $10 mil (that's $2 mil shy of an MLE contract) on a player that we know won't be able to contribute next season? Harsh I know....but it needs saying.

Sad but this is very possible.  Not sure the FO is going to buy off on paying him when he isn't going to play.  Frankly, I was half expecting them to let him walk just to save money anyway.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

It feels like we are reaping bad karma for being very conservative shutting Trae down for his finger and then OO for his toe.  We immediately then got hit by a flurry of discrete injuries with Kobe, JJ and now Saddiq.  

We're reaping bad karma because Ressler and the entire front office didn't set this team up right. Got people playing out of position everywhere.

All of that hustling that Bey was doing, was a direct result of playing out of position and trying to play bigger than what he really is.

The injury was a freak play. But it's also a play that Bey isn't accustomed to making. Bey would normally be running to the 3 point line.

[kg01]

31 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Hawks DNA is much better than "Hey, let's intentionally lose games so we can get a higher draft pick to take some guy whose three to four years away from contributing to winning basketball!"

It's funny.  You and I fought tooth and nail over this years ago.  You tank to find a centerpiece (Trae, duh).  But, once you have your centerpiece, tankings not the move.

So you were wrong but not you're right.  

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

 

Sad but this is very possible.  Not sure the FO is going to buy off on paying him when he isn't going to play.  Frankly, I was half expecting them to let him walk just to save money anyway.  

The way teams handle their payroll is roughly the top 5-6 guys get paid and the remaining guys get the leftovers, about $40M.  Since Bey isn't a top 5-6 guy even if he was healthy, we're not gonna pay him $10M to be out with injury. 

It is sad for Bey, but realistically he kissed his payday goodbye from any team.  No finger pointing deserved if we don't resign him.  All the teams have to spend that $40M wisely each year, and it's never gonna be much to spend on a guy who is out all year. 

[AHF]

10 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

The way teams handle their payroll is roughly the top 5-6 guys get paid and the remaining guys get the leftovers, about $40M.  Since Bey isn't a top 5-6 guy even if he was healthy, we're not gonna pay him $10M to be out with injury. 

It is sad for Bey, but realistically he kissed his payday goodbye from any team.  No finger pointing deserved if we don't resign him.  All the teams have to spend that $40M wisely each year, and it's never gonna be much to spend on a guy who is out all year. 

Do you think he takes a low $ one year deal from someone?  Enough to pay the bills next year (and for the team that signs him the potential to be a much more impactful player down the stretch and in the playoffs than a Mat(t)hews type of end of the bench guy) but not enough that he can't be cut if the team needs that space?  In that sense, he would basically defer his FA until next summer (as an UFA).

[Final_quest]

42 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's funny.  You and I fought tooth and nail over this years ago.  You tank to find a centerpiece (Trae, duh).  But, once you have your centerpiece, tankings not the move.

So you were wrong but not you're right.  

Agreed.  I think we're in one exception to your rule, though.  We have a rare opportunity to soft tank, but just the last 20-25 games.  Huge difference in chance at getting a top 4 pick if we finish as the 7th worst team vs 10th. 

We barely have a functional roster anyways.  If they do try to win it may be the same result as if we were tanking at this point.  

[Final_quest]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Do you think he takes a low $ one year deal from someone?  Enough to pay the bills next year (and for the team that signs him the potential to be a much more impactful player down the stretch and in the playoffs than a Mat(t)hews type of end of the bench guy) but not enough that he can't be cut if the team needs that space?  In that sense, he would basically defer his FA until next summer (as an UFA).

Not sure what the precedence is for guys like Bey who are knowingly injured for the year with a small chance to be on the roster for a playoff run.  

If he does get a deal, it won't be for much.  

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, AHF said:

No player option.  Odds of next year being a lost season for him are very high which means that could be a $20M deal for one season plus losing a roster spot for next year.  $30M is fair for two seasons (which is alll the productive time I think you can reasonably project),

The Player option only matters if he's good.   If he's good, you may want to resign him longterm anyway.   I would even go as far 3 years 27 with a PO after 2.   However, I think the PO makes the deal fair... otherwise, it's just lowballing and if he's good, he will never resign. 

 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

o we are paying him $10 next year to rehab, then $10 mil in his 1st year back from the injury....year 3 should be a TO.

But and it's a big But(t) :

For a team that is currently in a salary crunch, and approaching LT issues and need adequate depth next season (I THINK NEXT SEASON WILL BE MOST IMPORTANT SEASON), do we want to tie up $10 mil (that's $2 mil shy of an MLE contract) on a player that we know won't be able to contribute next season? Harsh I know....but it needs saying.

I think it comes down to potential.  Do you think he's going to be better than a 10 Million dollar player when he comes back?  This is the way I look at it.   What do you expect when he does play?  I mean, if you like we can just give a 2 year 20 million dollar deal...  No PO.   No TO.  I think we have Bird rights still.   However, I think that he's going to fair better than a 10 million dollar player after he rehabs so.. we make off with a good haul after the rehab.   If I told you that you can get a 6'8 player with a motor who can shoot a streaky 38% from three. and can get you maybe 15/7.... in 24 mpg.. what is it worth to you?  Those are my low expectations.   I expect more than that from Bey though. 

 

 

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The Player option only matters if he's good.   If he's good, you may want to resign him longterm anyway.   I would even go as far 3 years 27 with a PO after 2.   However, I think the PO makes the deal fair... otherwise, it's just lowballing and if he's good, he will never resign. 

 

I would not consider a PO and would push for a TO instead.

14 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Not sure what the precedence is for guys like Bey who are knowingly injured for the year with a small chance to be on the roster for a playoff run.  

If he does get a deal, it won't be for much.  

One guy that comes to mind is Isaiah Thomas.   I think he ended up signing a 1 year $2M contract instead of something closer to 10x that like he was hoping for.

[Gray Mule]

Once upon a time, being in insurance sales, I must ask:

I'm sure insurance will pay most of the balance of Bey's salary for this year.  He has no contract after the end of this season.  If and when he sign's a new contract, this becomes a pre-existing injury on the new contract and I ask, will insurance cover him?

If he had a multi-year contract with Atlanta, he would be covered.  

?????

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Once upon a time, being in insurance sales, I must ask:

I'm sure insurance will pay most of the balance of Bey's salary for this year.  He has no contract after the end of this season.  If and when he sign's a new contract, this becomes a pre-existing injury on the new contract and I ask, will insurance cover him?

If he had a multi-year contract with Atlanta, he would be covered.  

?????

You'd have to see the insurance contract to get the details.  Just from memory, I think there may be a significant number of games that a player has to miss before the insurance kicks in.  (The insurance is for the team, not the player because the team will pay the player regardless of whether insurance applies).

For his next contract, either his pre-existing injury will be excluded or the insurance rates will be raised enough to compensate.  Insurance companies don't take on pre-existing conditions unless forced to do so or paid to do so.

[JayBirdHawk]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

 

Sad but this is very possible.  Not sure the FO is going to buy off on paying him when he isn't going to play.  Frankly, I was half expecting them to let him walk just to save money anyway.  

I thought the most we'd do is get a fake 2nd as part of a SnT for another TPE we won't use.

Side Note: I saw something the other day, that in the new CBA you can now trade for a player using the MLE. You couldn't before.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

Not sure what the precedence is for guys like Bey who are knowingly injured for the year with a small chance to be on the roster for a playoff run.  

If he does get a deal, it won't be for much.  

Demarcus Cousins is your precedent: He was expected to get a 5yr max deal that offseason, but injured his Achilles. Pels instead offered  a 2yr/$40 mil extension which he declined.  The following year he signed a 1yr MLE deal for $5.3 mil with GSW hoping to parlay that into a bigger deal.  After that season, he made a total of ~$9 million over the next 3 years and was then out of the league.

So instead of $40 mil he made ~$15 mil.

[Final_quest]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Demarcus Cousins is your precedent: He was expected to get a 5yr max deal that offseason, but injured his Achilles. Pels instead offered  a 2yr/$40 mil extension which he declined.  The following year he signed a 1yr MLE deal for $5.3 mil with GSW hoping to parlay that into a bigger deal.  After that season, he made a total of ~$9 million over the next 3 years and was then out of the league.

So instead of $40 mil he made ~$15 mil.

Actually Demarcus Cousins and IT were both stars.  Bey is a JAG.  Who is gonna sign an injured JAG?  Like Cousins, Bey probably won't sign with anyone until he is actually healthy again.