Merged: Lance Stephenson Mega Thread

[Peoriabird]

So... his PER it's improving each year... What happens to think that it won't continue improving??? He's still 23...

09-'10 .396 .837 12.7 3.7 6.8 45.9 29.0 11.9 19.4 5.4 11.07

'10-'11 .438 .794 15.0 4.2 5.7 52.1 25.2 11.7 19.6 6.4 14.62

'11-'12 .476 .757 15.2 2.9 5.9 55.2 26.6 11.1 18.5 4.3 15.83

'12-'13 .451 .881 17.7 2.7 8.8 54.3 30.8 12.2 22.7 3.9 16.82

'13-'14 .437 .848 20.5 3.3 8.3 53.8 26.8 11.8 25.3 4.7 17.10

Guess who's per has also improved every year and is the whipping boy for over half the board! And guess what, he only makes $8 million per year and y'all want to pay Stevens $12 Mil per year?

Edited April 14, 2014 by Peoriabird

[nitte]

He is a little bit of a loose cannon but overall I like him. That being said, in order to take him away from Indy, we will likely have to overpay. I think 4 yr- 44 M would be fair (similar to Batum money) but I think Indy would match that offer.

[macdaddy]

He is a little bit of a loose cannon but overall I like him. That being said, in order to take him away from Indy, we will likely have to overpay. I think 4 yr- 44 M would be fair (similar to Batum money) but I think Indy would match that offer.

I'm not sure. Indy really went dysfunctional the last month and most of the rumored finger pointing was at Lance. They may think of it as addition by subtraction especially if they melt down in the playoffs.

[Ebert]

09-'10 .396 .837 12.7 3.7 6.8 45.9 29.0 11.9 19.4 5.4 11.07

'10-'11 .438 .794 15.0 4.2 5.7 52.1 25.2 11.7 19.6 6.4 14.62

'11-'12 .476 .757 15.2 2.9 5.9 55.2 26.6 11.1 18.5 4.3 15.83

'12-'13 .451 .881 17.7 2.7 8.8 54.3 30.8 12.2 22.7 3.9 16.82

'13-'14 .437 .848 20.5 3.3 8.3 53.8 26.8 11.8 25.3 4.7 17.10

Guess who's per has also improved every year and is the whipping boy for over half the board! And guess what, he only makes $8 million per year and y'all want to pay Stevens $12 Mil per year?

I haven't said that we should pay him 12M a year.

I don't like PER, I think it helps some kind of players. It doesn't also reflect defense very well.

In some other advanced stats Lance is better. Compare their WS too...

[Ruckus]

Harden's biggest strength was his ability to attract Dwight. Will Lance be able to attract other big FAs?

[Peoriabird]

I haven't said that we should pay him 12M a year.

I don't like PER, I think it helps some kind of players. It doesn't also reflect defense very well.

In some other advanced stats Lance is better. Compare their WS too...

Not the WS crap again...Lord can we put that dumb measure to rest already? Teague has already proven that he is the driving force behind the Hawks! Some here were trying to claim that Mack was a similar player to Teague by using WS as a measure which is utterly retarded. Lance Stevens is a 4th option at best on a good team and has never proven otherwise.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Peoriabird

[WraithSentinel]

I dont want the Hawks to have anything to do with him. He is in the perfect situation for himself. Coming here he would be a disaster.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I like Stephenson... a lot actually. I love players that play with grit. He reminds me of a better Artest. He fits our system and just thinking about DMC/Stephenson duo on defense just gives me chills. With the shooters we have, we would be a better Memphis. My only concern is who is more important to the Hawks - Horford or Stephenson? If we don't get Horford to 4, he'll likely leave to a team that will. And how can we be considered a tough, gritty, bruiser team with no quit if our paint constantly has a vacancy sign? With Stephenson and defensive anchor at center, we would scary good. I'd take Asik in that situation.

C - Asik

PF - Horford

SF - Sap

SG - Stephenson

PG - Teague

6th - KK

7th - DMC

That is a great mix of offense and defense and would be a 50 win team. Only issue is DMC and/or KK would likely be gone to get Asik. Probably DMC because Houston needs defense, DMC is the cheaper contract, and dead-eye shooters are at a premium. Although Houston would prefer KK out the with Parsons - could be a chance to get another 1st round pick (2015, of course) out of them.

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[Ebert]

Not the WS crap again...Lord can we put that dumb measure to rest already? Teague has already proven that he is the driving force behind the Hawks! Some here were trying to claim that Mack was a similar player to Teague by using WS as a measure which is utterly retarded. Lance Stevens is a 4th option at best on a good team and has never proven otherwise.

Yeah you are right. Let's take PER as the only proven and realistic stat even if Pau Gasol has a higher PER than Marc... Would you take Pau over Marc because of his PER??

Your last sentence could be used on almost every young player as an argument to don't make him take responsibility or minutes. And Lance has proven to be more than a 4th option on a team...

Anyway that's not the point. We are not discussing if Lance is better than Teague. We are discussing if Lance would make this team better

[capstone21]

I don't think we have cap space for him anyway do we?

[High5]

I don't think Stephenson will ever be considered a superstar or even close to it, but I think he'd be an awesome fit for our team. A Teague/Lance/DMC/Sap/Horford lineup would be able to run so many teams out of the building. Then you get to bring arguably the best 3pt shooter on the planet off the bench whenever you need him.

[AHF]

I am conflicted on Lance. He was an abysmal shooter early in his career but has made real progress in that area every season, which is good as long as he keeps making improvements. I wouldn't take that as a given - remember Marvin Williams improving every season until his post-rookie-contract deal? The other negative factor for him is that he is the 3rd option on the Pacers (at best) - meaning he doesn't draw a lot of scheming or attention focused on stopping him. If he leaves the Pacers, he might expect to take on a much bigger role and it isn't clear to me how he will fare in that. Harden wasn't like this at all - he was elite offensively in his role and basically kept it up once he left. Stephenson doesn't have the same track record or level of success.

The other area of big concern is decision-making. His turnovers per game are 2.7 TO/G (same per 36) and that is a pretty big number for a guy with such a low usage rate. A 2.7 TO/36 at a 19% usage rate compares negatively, for example, to loose cannon Jordan Crawford with his 2.6 TO/36 and 23.6% usage rate.

The positives are real, too. His rebounding is beastly. Capable defensively. Good enough ballhandler to run some point. 23 years old - which is the same age as John Jenkins - means plenty of room for growth left in his game.

Given the lack of 2 guards league-wide, he is going to command around $10M/year if he has a respectable post-season. That is going to be one of those signings that looks very good or very bad in a few years.

Based on the numbers, I wouldn't make that leap if I were Ferry but I wouldn't rely on the numbers without a lot more tape for context given the impact that a change in role might have on him.

[benhillboy]

I am conflicted on Lance. He was an abysmal shooter early in his career but has made real progress in that area every season, which is good as long as he keeps making improvements. I wouldn't take that as a given - remember Marvin Williams improving every season until his post-rookie-contract deal? The other negative factor for him is that he is the 3rd option on the Pacers (at best) - meaning he doesn't draw a lot of scheming or attention focused on stopping him. If he leaves the Pacers, he might expect to take on a much bigger role and it isn't clear to me how he will fare in that. Harden wasn't like this at all - he was elite offensively in his role and basically kept it up once he left. Stephenson doesn't have the same track record or level of success.

The other area of big concern is decision-making. His turnovers per game are 2.7 TO/G (same per 36) and that is a pretty big number for a guy with such a low usage rate. A 2.7 TO/36 at a 19% usage rate compares negatively, for example, to loose cannon Jordan Crawford with his 2.6 TO/36 and 23.6% usage rate.

The positives are real, too. His rebounding is beastly. Capable defensively. Good enough ballhandler to run some point. 23 years old - which is the same age as John Jenkins - means plenty of room for growth left in his game.

Given the lack of 2 guards league-wide, he is going to command around $10M/year if he has a respectable post-season. That is going to be one of those signings that looks very good or very bad in a few years.

Based on the numbers, I wouldn't make that leap if I were Ferry but I wouldn't rely on the numbers without a lot more tape for context given the impact that a change in role might have on him.

All valid points.

[Atlantaholic]

I think Lance got overrated early on in the year when he was playing over his head and posting triple doubles (he has not had one in a loooong while). I do think he is a very good player, definitely not a star though. To me he is another Iguodala from a production stand point. He would be a very, very nice role player on this team and would make us better on the defensive end while also making us, if not more efficient, at least more exciting on the offensive end. I would love to have him around 9 million but it will probably take more than that to get him as some team will offer him a crazy contract like Iguodala got. Jeff, Lance, DMC, with Horford and Millsap, Korver as a 6th man, and hopefully an Asik or Mozgov type of pickup and we definitely have enough talent to challenge in the weak eastern conference. Maybe it would be worth overpaying for him.

[AHF]

'10-'11 .333 .786 12.9 6.3 7.3 41.0 25.6 19.5 23.0 8.7 5.57 '

11-'12 .376 .471 9.6 4.8 4.2 40.0 21.4 16.8 16.7 6.7 7.07

'12-'13 .460 .652 12.1 5.3 3.9 53.0 22.7 11.1 14.9 7.4 11.85 '

13-'14 .491 .711 15.7 8.1 5.2 56.4 23.5 13.8 19.0 11.4 14.73

The PER numbers are scary, although they are one stat that is guaranteed to improve for Stephenson if he takes on a larger role on his next team. PER rewards volume scoring even if it is inefficient so he should see a significant PER bump just by moving up his FGA/36 even if his TS% takes a hit in the process. That would be an example of increased PER and decreased WS/48 due to the additional shots being inefficient ones.

[Guest]

He's not a Ferry type player. It won't happen. No denying his talent but I think we aren't gonna go after him at all.

[RedDawg#8]

Stephenson put up a triple double against the Thunder on saturday it just wasnt hyped up like before:

17 pts 11ast 10 rebs

Im not sure if Stephenson can make the leap given the reigns to his own team but MANY here said the same about Harden and not wanting to go after him or pay him superstar money and he wasting no time showing us and his doubters he was in fact the shiznit.

Stephensons a different mold of player, His game is more well rounded and defensive oriented. He is a mini-Lebron-Lite compared to Hardens mini-Kobe-Lite skillset

That said why not? What are our other options this offseason?

[Guest]

I am conflicted on Lance. He was an abysmal shooter early in his career but has made real progress in that area every season, which is good as long as he keeps making improvements. I wouldn't take that as a given - remember Marvin Williams improving every season until his post-rookie-contract deal? The other negative factor for him is that he is the 3rd option on the Pacers (at best) - meaning he doesn't draw a lot of scheming or attention focused on stopping him. If he leaves the Pacers, he might expect to take on a much bigger role and it isn't clear to me how he will fare in that. Harden wasn't like this at all - he was elite offensively in his role and basically kept it up once he left. Stephenson doesn't have the same track record or level of success.

The other area of big concern is decision-making. His turnovers per game are 2.7 TO/G (same per 36) and that is a pretty big number for a guy with such a low usage rate. A 2.7 TO/36 at a 19% usage rate compares negatively, for example, to loose cannon Jordan Crawford with his 2.6 TO/36 and 23.6% usage rate.

The positives are real, too. His rebounding is beastly. Capable defensively. Good enough ballhandler to run some point. 23 years old - which is the same age as John Jenkins - means plenty of room for growth left in his game.

Given the lack of 2 guards league-wide, he is going to command around $10M/year if he has a respectable post-season. That is going to be one of those signings that looks very good or very bad in a few years.

Based on the numbers, I wouldn't make that leap if I were Ferry but I wouldn't rely on the numbers without a lot more tape for context given the impact that a change in role might have on him.

I'm less concerned with PER and WS and whatever other stats are out there. If Ferry and Bud determines he can fit in the system his numbers should improve. Like I said before, I'm more concerned with the non-basketball stuff.

This team needs an infusion of talent on the wings, particularly SG.

I'm not saying he is the answer, but we need someone with his skill level.

Edited April 14, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[Ruckus]

With Al, Sap, and Teague still on this team, I'm not so sure it would be "his" team. I think you guys are overreacting about that a bit. If defenses concentrate on him too much, we will destroy them in other areas.

[AHF]

With Al, Sap, and Teague still on this team, I'm not so sure it would be "his" team. I think you guys are overreacting about that a bit. If defenses concentrate on him too much, we will destroy them in other areas.

At $10M+ per season, I would expect him to be more than the role player he is in Indiana. If Indiana lets him go, it is because they don't value production from that role as much as his salary would cost them. It he isn't worth it for the Pacers, is he worth it for the Hawks?

From your comment, I wonder if we aren't better off trying to acquire Afllalo from Orlando than paying say 4 years and $44 million.