Consider this IMPORTANT......

[JTB]

regardless if we win this series vs the cavs or not and so on. I have 3 very important question for all hawk fans that really know our Hawks.

1. Did the Hawks do enough to attract top, mid, lower level but upcoming free agents this season?

Not talking about any free agent in specific just saying overall did the Hawks who are normally not on the list of most free agents if not all change free agent players mindset to actually coming here?

2. If you answered yes to question 1 Are you basing solely off of our Hawks season accomplishments being that the Hawks actually achieved some big awards this year like coach of the year, #1 seed and making it to the ECF and so on?

3. Last 2 part question. Will you be shocked more than any other recent off season if free agents still don't really consider us?....and being truthful and honest about our Hawks are you for once EXPECTING a fantastic off season this year where the Hawks do sign key free agents?

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer each question! I think being down 0-3 in the ECF series has changed from "lets actually try to win it all" to "hey let's make sure we are at least looking attractive to the upcoming free agents so that we can improve and get back here next season".....I think most would agree at this point.

[nathan2331]

1. I think we've made ourselves an attractive destination in free agency.

2. I'd base off the success the team has had this season as well as the ownership change. Not having the ASG over our heads should look better to free agents.

3. I would be shocked if they really don't consider us. We've got a good team and are just a couple of pieces from really putting it together. We're not the Hawks of old and I think it's time the league starts to recognize that.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[thescout5]

Question 1 my answer is yes I think having a great regular season top and mid level free agents will consider Atlanta. Also with new ownership headed by Grant Hill a respected  former player should entice players to come. After alll how many years has it been since a big free agent signed with Atlanta? I am talking top tier free agent? Probably Dikembe Mutombo I could be wrong but that is a heck of a long time. Sooner or later you would think at least one top tier free agent would want to come. They want to play for a winner and be paid. The Hawks can do both so at some point a top tier free agent will want to come.

 

Question 2, Hawks have had a great season but if you want to be a top tier team you have to want more. This team has got the most out of their talent level. Coach Bud has done a great job with the talent given to him .This team has heart however I think it's easy to see the team needs more talent. I was disappointed during the trade deadline the Hawks stood pat. The thinking was why break up the chemistry the Hawks have the best record. True but if you look at another sport baseball do the New Yankees (past teams) Red Sox just sit pat even though they have a 10 game lead no. You can do something to improve the team regardless and by bringing in more talent players are glad to see management trying to improve the team.

 

Question 3 No I won't be shocked if the Hawks can't attract top free agents. Hey this is Atlanta it is rare top players even think about wanting to sign with the Hawks no matter what era (Dominque era,2000 teams or now). Management needs to make a statement and say enough is enough. Having Grant Hill should help sell the team but you need to ceil the deal.  If you want to play with the big boys and compete for championships then get it done other wise it's the same ole Hawks just happy to make the playoffs. I can see this off season going either way standing pat and adding marginal talent or making a splash and really giving a talent infusion to the Hawks to want to win championships.

[CBAreject]

I agree with what's already been said. We should be attractive bc of success and ownership. That said, I won't be surprised if the top FA's want to go to the Knicks, Heat, and Lakers, even though those teams are in shambles.

[Gray Mule]

Why would top tier free agents want to come to Atlanta?  Would it be our

record and our coaches?

 

No.  Really, how many Hawk players do we see on national TV doing advertising

for any product?  Think of all those players we see.  Who do they play for?  Or,

if they are former players, did they ever play for Atlanta?  No, I don't think so.

 

Endorsements by pro NBA, NFL and MLB totals up to big $$$.  Until Atlanta can

sell some major company on the idea of having their player or players featured

we will not be the most desirable location for any super all star.

 

Money talks, big time. 

 

Now, having said that, for those free agents below the super star, they will now

feel drawn to our Hawk team.  Everyone loves a winner and we are what our record

says that we are!

 

[Dnice]

I'm ready for July already.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

The problem with the Hawks is that the way we are made up, top free agent talent doesn't fit. What I mean by this is that top max-contract guys are paid to be the man... to carry the load. The Hawks way is everybody touches the ball and shares the ball. Our players have consistently even stat lines.

Let's say we sign Lemarcus Aldridge and he buys into Bud's space & pace and ball movement scheme. My question is would Lemarcus Aldridge worth a max deal to the Hawks if he is putting up no better stat lines than Millsap due to Bud's scheme? Is Jimmy Butler? Is Marc Gasol? Yes, Millsap is undersized and has looked terrible in this ECF round and it's easy to say "yes, because Gasol, Monroe, and LMA all have size and Butler gives us a go-to scorer", but if they are no better than what we have, then why shell out a max deal to one of them and straight jacket our cap for 17 & 8 per game.

Look at the Spurs. They don't overpay players. The Catch 22 is for LMA, Butler, or Monroe to consider us, we'll have to shell out the clams.

[GameTime]

The problem with the Hawks is that the way we are made up, top free agent talent doesn't fit. What I mean by this is that top max-contract guys are paid to be the man... to carry the load. The Hawks way is everybody touches the ball and shares the ball. Our players have consistently even stat lines.

Let's say we sign Lemarcus Aldridge and he buys into Bud's space & pace and ball movement scheme. My question is would Lemarcus Aldridge worth a max deal to the Hawks if he is putting up no better stat lines than Millsap due to Bud's scheme? Is Jimmy Butler? Is Marc Gasol? Yes, Millsap is undersized and has looked terrible in this ECF round and it's easy to say "yes, because Gasol, Monroe, and LMA all have size and Butler gives us a go-to scorer", but if they are no better than what we have, then why shell out a max deal to one of them and straight jacket our cap for 17 & 8 per game.

Look at the Spurs. They don't overpay players. The Catch 22 is for LMA, Butler, or Monroe to consider us, we'll have to shell out the clams.

 

Very good points PSH. We are at a crossroads in our operations this summer. Heck, do we even know if Ferry or Bud is the GM? If Bud is the GM I definitely see him going with the status quo and re signing everyone.

 

Our options:

 

1. Overpay our guys (Give Sap the max, DMC 12-15 milion)

 

2. Don't pay our guys and go for the big wheels (LMA, Marc, Jimmy, Gasol, etc.)

 

3. Don't overpay anyone and go for great value contracts.

[Diesel]

regardless if we win this series vs the cavs or not and so on. I have 3 very important question for all hawk fans that really know our Hawks.

1. Did the Hawks do enough to attract top, mid, lower level but upcoming free agents this season?

Not talking about any free agent in specific just saying overall did the Hawks who are normally not on the list of most free agents if not all change free agent players mindset to actually coming here?

2. If you answered yes to question 1 Are you basing solely off of our Hawks season accomplishments being that the Hawks actually achieved some big awards this year like coach of the year, #1 seed and making it to the ECF and so on?

3. Last 2 part question. Will you be shocked more than any other recent off season if free agents still don't really consider us?....and being truthful and honest about our Hawks are you for once EXPECTING a fantastic off season this year where the Hawks do sign key free agents?

Thank you for taking the time to read and answer each question! I think being down 0-3 in the ECF series has changed from "lets actually try to win it all" to "hey let's make sure we are at least looking attractive to the upcoming free agents so that we can improve and get back here next season".....I think most would agree at this point.

 

 

The truth here is that not a lot of us agreed with Danny and Bud's theory from the get go.  Bud and Ferry don't believe in Star players.   What many of us here are used to is a Star player leading the team and so we would automatically find fault with the process of free agency.  I am one of those who vehemently disagreed with the theory, however, the theory worked.  We were the best in the east in the season and we have gotten farther than we ever have.

 

Now, if Bud and Ferry uses Analytics to develop a strong roster that can compete the way that they want to compete, then somebody who believes in the same old Hero Ball will always find fault.

The other thing is that change is difficult.   We find it hard to buy in because what they are doing is so much different than what has been done before.   But it has worked. And while it was working, we celebrated.  However, we can't ignore the effect of injury on our team.  We have lots of working Cogs.   I know some will say that Cleveland is injured also.   However, Cleveland is not as dependent on the team game as we are.  As Long as Lebron can play, Cleveland can win.  He's all that matters there.   When you look at us, the same reason that our starting 5 was the player for the month for Feb is the same reason why losing one of our key players effect us much more strongly than Cleveland losing a Kevin Love. 

 

Bottom line, those of us who are not analytics believers have no place judging the moves of the analytics guys.  No place.  We can just trust them or fire them but not judge them as if we know how it works. 

[thescout5]

I guess the Hawks will keep losing in the playoffs if the Hawks refuse to go after any star players. Sure the team is built on analytics kind of like the Oakland A's with Billy Ball. Have the A's won any world series with it? No. In basketball you have to have clutch players and I don't see that on the Hawks. What happens at crunch time the most important of the game is critical. Good decisions need to be made and I haven't seen that this series. Now if you can find good closers without getting star players then do it. I doubt the Hawks find any clutch players thus it will be the same ole Hawks win in the regualr season and lose in the playoffs. It doesn't matter whether its first round,2nd or 3rd you still go home a loser.

[NBASupes]

Don't waste time on top tier FAs and go for Greg Monroe.

Trade Teague for the 6th/Nik S.

Sign a quality backup level PG who has started in the NBA like Mo Williams or Jeremy Lin.

Draft Kaminsky with the 15th pick.

Resign DMC.

That should improve us at all positions but PG. Dennis is developing and he's in his 3rd yr. He should be ready and much better.

[thescout5]

I could live with that nbasup.Reason Sacramento does it they have been in the lotto the last 10 years and still don't have a playoff team. Teague could really help them plus has a good contract. What it gives the Hawks a potential star in Winslow, a scoring big man for depth in Kaminsky and Monroe a player who can play power forward/center able to get rebounds and make the Hawks lineup bigger. How many top tier free agents will even change teams. I am thinking Gasol,Jordan stay with their teams and Aldridge would be nice but I doubt he chooses the Hawks over the Spurs who he may play for,

[DJlaysitup]

_{It's important to remember that up until recently we have had one of the most screwed up batches of owners in the league.  We also had fans that chanted "MVP, MVP" for the other team's player and wore opposing team jerseys to our home games.}

 

_{I don't blame the "fans" so much - at least they paid their money for their tickets.}

 

_{It's getting turned around now.}

Edited May 25, 2015 by DJlaysitup

[ThomasCredle]

I think the new combination of a deep pocketed ownership group and Grant Hill to be their spokesman in chief is a massive upgrade over the dysfunctional Atlanta Spirt. That will assist us. I also think that our talent level is to the point now that an "elite" could look at the Hawks and say I'm the piece that will put this team over the top. We have never been that option before. Previously we were the "ain't gonna win a title but there desperate and might get a max deal". That only brings stat stuffers that usually also bring locker room problems. I also think Bud's style is one that matches up with modern NBA players. The team this year showed chemistry and looked like they had. A great locker room culture. I also think the endorsement money would come to a player in Atlanta. We have never had a single player to be the face of the team. If we had an elite talent that lead us to finals corporate sponsors would find him.

All that said I just don't see an Elite FA (with the possible exception of Gasol) this season that I think would really improve this team. IMHO Aldridge is the cream of the class and I worry about injuries and don't see him being a massive upgrade over Sap. Plus he either gets the extra money in Portland or heads home to a Texas team more than likely. Gasol really would solve some of our needs at the 5. I don't think he is an "elite 5" by historical standards but could easily fit that bill in the modern NBA. He does bring the interior toughness, rebounds, and some low post game. I dont think Al brings the same game to the 4 that Sap does and we might be surprised when we actually see him try to play a stretch 4. I have no doubt Bud could adjust the game to more of a low post focus with Horf and Gasol but then do we reduce Our motion and guard play.

Monroe doesn't defend the rim at all and I worry his slow feet on D just won't work with our style of defense. I don't Jordan would mesh with the team concept of the Hawks at all and he could be a locker room mess and I also really question his commitment to a team defense.

All that said I want to see the Hawks get a reasonably priced big bruiser to bring some defensive rebounding and another wing to replace DMC who I think has played his way to massive deal elsewhere that the Hawks won't match.

Roll with that and a resigned Sap and then I will have my Wet dream that Durant sees how he fits perfectly in our system and comes to ATL.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The truth here is that not a lot of us agreed with Danny and Bud's theory from the get go.  Bud and Ferry don't believe in Star players.   What many of us here are used to is a Star player leading the team and so we would automatically find fault with the process of free agency.  I am one of those who vehemently disagreed with the theory, however, the theory worked.  We were the best in the east in the season and we have gotten farther than we ever have.

 

Now, if Bud and Ferry uses Analytics to develop a strong roster that can compete the way that they want to compete, then somebody who believes in the same old Hero Ball will always find fault.

The other thing is that change is difficult.   We find it hard to buy in because what they are doing is so much different than what has been done before.   But it has worked. And while it was working, we celebrated.  However, we can't ignore the effect of injury on our team.  We have lots of working Cogs.   I know some will say that Cleveland is injured also.   However, Cleveland is not as dependent on the team game as we are.  As Long as Lebron can play, Cleveland can win.  He's all that matters there.   When you look at us, the same reason that our starting 5 was the player for the month for Feb is the same reason why losing one of our key players effect us much more strongly than Cleveland losing a Kevin Love. 

 

Bottom line, those of us who are not analytics believers have no place judging the moves of the analytics guys.  No place.  We can just trust them or fire them but not judge them as if we know how it works.

The ironic thing about this post, is that the entire fan base, Hawks media, and most national media, are almost begging Teague to play "hero ball".

[Jody23]

The truth here is that not a lot of us agreed with Danny and Bud's theory from the get go. Bud and Ferry don't believe in Star players. What many of us here are used to is a Star player leading the team and so we would automatically find fault with the process of free agency. I am one of those who vehemently disagreed with the theory, however, the theory worked. We were the best in the east in the season and we have gotten farther than we ever have.

Now, if Bud and Ferry uses Analytics to develop a strong roster that can compete the way that they want to compete, then somebody who believes in the same old Hero Ball will always find fault.

The other thing is that change is difficult. We find it hard to buy in because what they are doing is so much different than what has been done before. But it has worked. And while it was working, we celebrated. However, we can't ignore the effect of injury on our team. We have lots of working Cogs. I know some will say that Cleveland is injured also. However, Cleveland is not as dependent on the team game as we are. As Long as Lebron can play, Cleveland can win. He's all that matters there. When you look at us, the same reason that our starting 5 was the player for the month for Feb is the same reason why losing one of our key players effect us much more strongly than Cleveland losing a Kevin Love.

Bottom line, those of us who are not analytics believers have no place judging the moves of the analytics guys. No place. We can just trust them or fire them but not judge them as if we know how it works.

Bud and Ferry are not against having elite players. I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion. What they are against is iso ball. They believe in space and pace and ball movement which can be done with star players. The Spurs have done it for years with Duncan. The Warriors are doing it wonderfully with Curry. Remember, the core of what the Hawks have was Ferry's second option. His first option was to have Howard and Paul with Horford, Carroll and Korver. And that lineup would still be coached to play Bud ball, not iso ball.

[hawkman]

The ironic thing about this post, is that the entire fan base, Hawks media, and most national media, are almost begging Teague to play "hero ball".

I'm glad someone else noticed that. You can't have it both ways. Scratch that, you CAN have it both ways but you have to find a star that fits the system whether it's through free agency, trades, or the draft. It doesn't always have to be an either/or situation. There are plenty of stars out there who can get their own shot AND create offense for others. But back to the subject, you can't fault Teague for not being a superstar on a nightly basis. He's not that type of player. None of the Hawks are.

[Diesel]

Bud and Ferry are not against having elite players. I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion. What they are against is iso ball. They believe in space and pace and ball movement which can be done with star players. The Spurs have done it for years with Duncan. The Warriors are doing it wonderfully with Curry. Remember, the core of what the Hawks have was Ferry's second option. His first option was to have Howard and Paul with Horford, Carroll and Korver. And that lineup would still be coached to play Bud ball, not iso ball.

 

 

Not exactly.  Ferry has said that he will sign a sure fire Star but mainly their actions are that if they can get a cheap player who plays the role well, no need to spend major money on a star player.

 

Last summer, we signed Baze and Thabo.  Two relatively Cheap signings for players who could do the same thing that Sap and DMC did.  Prove them self.  The statement about D12 was that they never took his recruitment that serious.  And they didn't even negotiate with Smoove.  Lastly, if you listen to the tape that Got Ferry in trouble, he balked at spending money for Melo, Gasol and Deng.  I don't have a problem with it because the proof has been proven. However, I don't see us bringing in any big money free agent unless it's somebody that really Moves the meter like CP3 or Westbrook... and even then, I have my doubts.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Bud and Ferry are not against having elite players. I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion. What they are against is iso ball. They believe in space and pace and ball movement which can be done with star players. The Spurs have done it for years with Duncan. The Warriors are doing it wonderfully with Curry. Remember, the core of what the Hawks have was Ferry's second option. His first option was to have Howard and Paul with Horford, Carroll and Korver. And that lineup would still be coached to play Bud ball, not iso ball.

The Spurs have also gone into isolation in critical end of game situations, namely with Duncan and help from Ginobli. In later years, Parker has been the guy they went to, along with Duncan.

The system works, because the system is really predicated on defense, and not offense. Any free agent who is a decent offensive player, must also be able to play defense, unless he is just an outstanding offensive player.

All of those Spurs championship teams were top 3 defensive teams in the league. But they had the ability to score the basketball in critical situations. And Tim Duncan in particular has had sone absolutely monster offensive playoff games to carry the team.

[Diesel]

I'm glad someone else noticed that. You can't have it both ways. Scratch that, you CAN have it both ways but you have to find a star that fits the system whether it's through free agency, trades, or the draft. It doesn't always have to be an either/or situation. There are plenty of stars out there who can get their own shot AND create offense for others. But back to the subject, you can't fault Teague for not being a superstar on a nightly basis. He's not that type of player. None of the Hawks are.

 

They are what we wanted them to be and they work well as a team.  The conversation of wanting Teague to play hero ball is a knee jerk reaction to losing.  When a new thing isn't working, people will always go back to the old thinkg that they know doesn't work.  No matter how much success they have had with the new thing.

I look at these threads of people talking about Trade Teague, Sap, and Put ISOShroeder at PG and move Horf to PF.   It's knee Jerk reaction.  That's Babcockish.  There's no need for us to go backwards.  Recognize the situation... we are really beat up and injured. They do have Lebron.  I think our coaching is getting it.  Why I haven't given up on this team.  IF we lose, I'm not for the fire sale that the Knee Jerkers are calling for.  Yes, we need a rebounder/defender... But again, we may have that in Walter or we may be able to get that on the cheap.  Howevr, all this talk about trading everybody because they don't play Hero Ball like Lebron?  Backtracking and it won't work.