Bball Breakdown: That Teague Guy's Not Too Shabby

[lethalweapon3]

http://bballbreakdown.com/2015/08/13/jeff-teagues-development-helps-hawks-take-flight/

 

Though he still falls short of the elite playmakers in the league, Teague has made some huge strides in his game to enter the conversation of high-profile point guards.

Perhaps one of the reasons for Teague’s lack of sufficient credit comes from the difficulty in separating his contributions from the interwoven Hawks’ system. Atlanta head coach Mike Budenholzer spent over a decade with the San Antonio Spurs and has successfully implemented a similar culture and offense in Atlanta. Because of this, it could easily be inferred that Teague’s improvement over the last couple seasons is because of the uptick in offensive sets and intelligent coaching minds.

That simply isn’t fair to Teague.

 

 

 

((...fancy graphics, videos, stats...))

 

Teauge isn’t on the level of Paul, Stephen Curry, or any of the elite point guards, his basketball IQ and precision aren’t worlds behind either.

At just 27 years old, Teague is just now entering his prime. Based off his effectiveness as a passer and catalyst, as he continues to round out his game and the offensive reads become more ingrained between he and his teammates, there’s room for his game to grow into the premier class of point guards.

 

 

~lw3

[LucastheThird]

Love seeing Teague get some love from different writers, Bball Breakdown are pretty great with their analysis.

 

Also glad to see that the knee-jerk "Trade Teague to save salary cap" threads have stopped popping up.

[benhillboy]

I've never been a Teague fan, but he did carry us for a few stretches last year. I never cared for Tony Parker at all, yet he's well-decorated.

I've learned to not be overly picky and just accept his lapses in intensity and focus. Dennis' maturation and our improved depth (pending the Mike situation) will go a long way in relieving pressure on him. I rather appreciate his quickness and durability.

I'm optimistic this third year in the system will be his best. At 8 mil a year, he'll appear near the top of those "best value" articles at mid-season once again.

Edited August 16, 2015 by benhillboy

[BigDog90]

He's ATL best bet at PG for now. I'd just love for him to play aggressive like Westbrook consistently instead of going back and forth being passive. The talent is there. Oh yeah work on shot clock awareness. Hawks got him at a bargain. I could imagine he's going to command 20+ mil when his deal is up if the Hawks want to keep him. 

[RedDawg#8]

When you look back at Pistons era Chauncey Billups, there are a lot of similarities between he and Teagues style of play and even demeanor. I know we often want to compare to the Spurs and in Teagues case Tony Parker but when Billups was entering his prime years just like Teague is now they are remarkably similar. People forget. Billups was a journeyman with relatively no acclaim prior to the Pistons, I see Teague taking the same pathway in his career (even moreso if he leaves us after his contract) as he is just now recieving that same acclaim from fans and respect from opponents but still not a headliner in terms of star power.

[ATLHawks3]

Love seeing Teague get some love from different writers, Bball Breakdown are pretty great with their analysis.

 

Also glad to see that the knee-jerk "Trade Teague to save salary cap" threads have stopped popping up.

 

@RandomFan

[JTB]

When you look back at Pistons era Chauncey Billups, there are a lot of similarities between he and Teagues style of play and even demeanor. I know we often want to compare to the Spurs and in Teagues case Tony Parker but when Billups was entering his prime years just like Teague is now they are remarkably similar. People forget. Billups was a journeyman with relatively no acclaim prior to the Pistons, I see Teague taking the same pathway in his career (even moreso if he leaves us after his contract) as he is just now recieving that same acclaim from fans and respect from opponents but still not a headliner in terms of star power.

Good write up...but Honestly Teague has started his career out better than billups but I know what you mean. That's why I always try to tell people that it's possible for players to get better at older ages! Look at DMC...he wasn't valuable until he was 27! Before he arrived in ATL he was a player that would receive garbage minutes when the game was out of hand.

Billups is a true happy ending in the NBA because he was journey man. Teague isn't a journey man so to say at least not to me but the point I want to get to is that Teague can still become a better player. He hasn't hit his ceiling unless he wants his current play to be his ceiling.

If Teague can simply become a good consistent mid range shooter he will enter the elite pg conversation based off my observations.

[RandomFan]

Love seeing Teague get some love from different writers, Bball Breakdown are pretty great with their analysis.

 

Also glad to see that the knee-jerk "Trade Teague to save salary cap" threads have stopped popping up.

 

@RandomFan

Oh really? You want to go here do you? OK then.

 

First of all, I'm sorry that you are too short-sighted to see the big picture. I never discounted Teague's abilities or impact on our team. In fact, that's the only reason he had such high prospective trade value in the first place. Duh... Call it knee-jerk if you want. However, those of us rational posters call it putting forth an alternative to losing both of the free agents we had, by sacrificing from a position of strength (That would be the PG position if you're too slow to pick up on that).

 

What ended up happening instead Mr. Smarty Pants? That's right, we lost DMC. Let's also remember that it was merely a suggested course of action designed at keeping our two free agents, contingent on Coach Bud and Wilcox both assuming that was the right thing to do - i.e. primarily that Dennis would be ready to assume the starting role.

 

It didn't happen, they had a solid contingency plan in place that satisfied me by bringing in Splitter and the other wing players they did. Good for them, and good for us. With how much DMC got overpaid, it turned out to be a good move for us that we didn't put all of our eggs in that basket. Now go pull your sandy panties out of your vag and give it a rest. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by RandomFan

[Diesel]

Good write up...but Honestly Teague has started his career out better than billups but I know what you mean. That's why I always try to tell people that it's possible for players to get better at older ages! Look at DMC...he wasn't valuable until he was 27! Before he arrived in ATL he was a player that would receive garbage minutes when the game was out of hand.

Billups is a true happy ending in the NBA because he was journey man. Teague isn't a journey man so to say at least not to me but the point I want to get to is that Teague can still become a better player. He hasn't hit his ceiling unless he wants his current play to be his ceiling.

If Teague can simply become a good consistent mid range shooter he will enter the elite pg conversation based off my observations.

 

My thinking is that a lot of fans fail to see the elite PG in Teague.  Sure, he's been hampered by the offensive system just as much as he has been helped by it.   The Teague vs. Indy and the Teague vs. Chicago shows how he can take over. Moreover, he's not passing to a Tim Duncan.  He's passing to Horford and Sap.  In the comparison of other elites, yes there's CP3.. and nobody is on his level.  However, I don't consider Curry a PG... I consider him a star.  What I mean is that it doesn't matter where you put Curry, he's going to get his numbers and he's going to do the job.  On the next tier, we find Teague, Irving, Wall, remnants of Parker, and Westbrook.  Of those guys, I think Teague is either 1 or 2 in rank.  What will be interesting will be to watch how this new Hawks team develops with Teague.

[Diesel]

Oh really? You want to go here do you? OK then.

 

First of all, I'm sorry that you are too short-sighted to see the big picture. I never discounted Teague's abilities or impact on our team. In fact, that's the only reason he had such high prospective trade value in the first place. Duh... Call it knee-jerk if you want. However, those of us rational posters call it putting forth an alternative to losing both of the free agents we had, by sacrificing from a position of strength (That would be the PG position if you're too slow to pick up on that).

 

What ended up happening instead Mr. Smarty Pants? That's right, we lost DMC. Let's also remember that it was merely a suggested course of action designed at keeping our two free agents, contingent on Coach Bud and Wilcox both assuming that was the right thing to do - i.e. primarily that Dennis would be ready to assume the starting role.

 

It didn't happen, they had a solid contingency plan in place that satisfied me by bringing in Splitter and the other wing players they did. Good for them, and good for us. With how much DMC got overpaid, it turned out to be a good move for us that we didn't put all of our eggs in that basket. Now go pull your sandy panties out of your vag and give it a rest. 

 

 

So what are you saying?  Are you saying it would have been dumb to trade away Teague and overpay DMC 15 Million dollars per?  I agree.

I don't see where trading Teague makes any sense, yet, you still seem to be trying to argue it?

[JETSET]

Teague >>>>> DMC and there's really no argument to it.

Im still amazed at how eager people are to hand the reigns over to dennis after how badly he failed in the playoffs.

Dennis was the worst player on our team in the playoffs. THE WORST.

[DS17Fanboy]

Teague >>>>> DMC and there's really no argument to it.

Im still amazed at how eager people are to hand the reigns over to dennis after how badly he failed in the playoffs.

Dennis was the worst player on our team in the playoffs. THE WORST.

He was not. Some stats might indicate that, while others dont. When I watched the games I've seen overal lackluster performances from the whole team with lots of room for improvement. Still, I think purely on individual performances, Antić, Bazemore and, yes Korver, took the cake from Dennis. If we want to go by these playoffs and determine everything then DMC was our flat-out multi year max money player.

 

The thing with Teague is that you know you dont know what you are going to get from him. He seems mentally off at times, so thats an issue, and he's been around for quite a while. And btw Billups was a much better shooter who could rely on that and never took nights off.

Edited August 17, 2015 by DS17Fanboy

[AHF]

Ages 24-26

Billups

Ppg 9, 13, 16

Apg 4, 6, 6

PER 14, 18, 20

Teague

Ppg 15, 17, 16

Apg 7, 7, 7

PER 17, 17, 21

[JETSET]

He was not. Some stats might indicate that, while others dont. When I watched the games I've seen overal lackluster performances from the whole team with lots of room for improvement. Still, I think purely on individual performances, Antić, Bazemore and, yes Korver, took the cake from Dennis. If we want to go by these playoffs and determine everything then DMC was our flat-out multi year max money player.

 

The thing with Teague is that you know you dont know what you are going to get from him. He seems mentally off at times, so thats an issue, and he's been around for quite a while. And btw Billups was a much better shooter who could rely on that and never took nights off.

You only think Antić, Bazemore and Korver were worse because you are a blatant homer of Dennis.  The on/off figures don't lie and they strongly disagree with your assessment.

 

Here's the on/off for the 3 players you mentioned and Dennis in the playoffs.

 

Korver's on/off:  +14.7

Bazemore:         -10.5

Antić:                  +1.2

 

Dennis:              -21.3

 

Our offensive rating was 108.3 with Dennis on the bench and 96.1 with him on the court.

 

 

Mack outplayed Dennis in the playoffs.  We win a game or two that we lost vs Brooklyn and Washington if Mack was in that backup PG role throughout the playoffs.  Dennis was DREADFUL in that Brooklyn series.  I'm talking historically bad.

 

Korver's shot may have been off but he was drawing an insane amount of attention from the defense which opened things up for DMC and others. 

 

DMC carried us through the Brooklyn series when Al and Millsap were dealing with injuries.  He started to fall back in place once those two, especially Al, regained their form.

[DS17Fanboy]

Mack didnt do shit outside of garbage time and again selective stats...

 

We've been trough this in way more depth. No use in repeating. Just chiming in so this quasi popular perception doesnt become reality trough creating a myth trough a way of repeating that perception as absolute and uncontended fact.

 

He wasnt the worst player. A good thing was he had very low turnovers and adapted to bad matchups where people somehow only remember the first instance of this bad matchup, like Jarret Jack. He even almost won a game for us vs DC, and could have gone for another if he wasnt subbed out for some strange reason and the game was given away by coach Bud. His game had its peaks and lows. But for some strange reason coach Bud didnt cultivate the peak vs DC. Such things are important with young players. People like you tried and blame entire losses only on Dennis. I rather blame weird decisons by coach Bud. Bud is a good theoretical coach with a solid overal people-management aproach. I think though he lacks insight into what its like to be a top-level pro-athlete and how mentally fragile they are in perticular situations. Like the to much rest before the playoffs. Its one of the things that got us out of sync and I lamented that as he did on this board. Subbing Dennis in that DC game got him out of sync, as much as that dunk on Leonard and Duncan got Dennis in to sync.

 

Dennis was overal below par, but not the worst. There where guys who didnt contribute at all, only on one end, and then there where guys who where relied upon more greatly than dennis who stunk more because of that.

 

This +- and whatever stat thing really is becoming obnoxious. I see youtube channels with nerds and pencil necks acting like they know the game inside out because they delve into all stats. They are a tool out of many in pro sports, but you cant rely on them to explain away each and every thing.

Edited August 17, 2015 by DS17Fanboy

[Diesel]

He was not. Some stats might indicate that, while others dont. When I watched the games I've seen overal lackluster performances from the whole team with lots of room for improvement. Still, I think purely on individual performances, Antić, Bazemore and, yes Korver, took the cake from Dennis. If we want to go by these playoffs and determine everything then DMC was our flat-out multi year max money player.

 

The thing with Teague is that you know you dont know what you are going to get from him. He seems mentally off at times, so thats an issue, and he's been around for quite a while. And btw Billups was a much better shooter who could rely on that and never took nights off.

 

If you watched the games, then you saw Dennis abandon the offense and do his own thing.  Dennis can be a gifted player.  However, I don't think he's bought in and right now, backup fits him better.  Now, if you want to get rid of Bud, Dennis may be your guy... you can get rid of Bud and let Dennis pull his best Westbrook imitation and we may win 25-30 games... However, Teague is the guy.

[DS17Fanboy]

If you watched the games, then you saw Dennis abandon the offense and do his own thing.  Dennis can be a gifted player.  However, I don't think he's bought in and right now, backup fits him better.  Now, if you want to get rid of Bud, Dennis may be your guy... you can get rid of Bud and let Dennis pull his best Westbrook imitation and we may win 25-30 games... However, Teague is the guy.

Again, Dennis played "the offense" of the bench he played all year. Give me one team outside maybe SA that plays the same offense when the bench comes in. And even then I wouldnt know if you'd want Dennis to play "the offense" with a string of guys who are not starters. In the situations Dennis plays in, he has to be higher usage than Teague, because the other guys he plays with simply dont play "the offense" either and as such greater reliance is on individual strenghts. Whenever Dennis was allowed to play with the starting 5 he has shown to play "the offense" more than well, but expect a different offense when you see Dennis together with Baze, Antić, Scott a Korver having a major drop-off, and a Horford suffering from the same problem as Dennis in such a situation.

[LucastheThird]

Again, Dennis played "the offense" of the bench he played all year. Give me one team outside maybe SA that plays the same offense when the bench comes in. And even then I wouldnt know if you'd want Dennis to play "the offense" with a string of guys who are not starters. In the situations Dennis plays in, he has to be higher usage than Teague, because the other guys he plays with simply dont play "the offense" either and as such greater reliance is on individual strenghts. Whenever Dennis was allowed to play with the starting 5 he has shown to play "the offense" more than well, but expect a different offense when you see Dennis together with Baze, Antić, Scott a Korver having a major drop-off, and a Horford suffering from the same problem as Dennis in such a situation.

The situations that made Dennis look his worst in the playoffs were the moments he was on the court with Horford, Millsap or other starters and he still did his own thing instead of running the offense like Teague. (The end of Game 5 against Washington comes to mind)

 

Dennis isn't bad, but he isn't a starting PG for Bud's system unless he buys into the system and stops going off on his own. If he can't do it, he'll never take Teague's spot.