2018 draft

[DBac]

I thought we had turned a page from this discussion.

 

Really dislike how these Zona guards don't give Ayton the ball. He was on fire on offense in the first half and they've iced him out. Defense been better in the second half at least. Sexton's ability to get to the line is crazy.

[NBASupes]

26 minutes ago, KB21 said:

........and in the meantime while said player is developing, the Hawks continue to lose games.  

So tell me.  Will this lottery pick be in his second contract before he develops?

D. Ayton is amazing and will be someone we need to look at. 

16 minutes ago, DBac said:

I thought we had turned a page from this discussion.

 

Really dislike how these Zona guards don't give Ayton the ball. He was on fire on offense in the first half and they've iced him out. Defense been better in the second half at least. Sexton's ability to get to the line is crazy.

It's college Basketball, they never know how to get the ball to the bigs. 

[DBac]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

D. Ayton is amazing and will be someone we need to look at. 

It's college Basketball, they never know how to get the ball to the bigs. 

By far the most annoying thing I've observed watching this year lol..

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, DBac said:

By far the most annoying thing I've observed watching this year lol..

Ayton has to be more physical when gaining position in the post.  I also felt he got lazy on his off ball screens late in the game.  If I'm taking this guy with a high pick, I want 100% effort and 100% focus from him at all times.

[Guard]

I can only imagine how much Ayton would improve his three point shot if Atlanta drafted him. Bud has Dedmon shooting 3s. You add a more consistent three point shot along with his midrange and post moves and you'd have a rediculous scorer.

Defense is still an issue but he performed better on that side of the ball tonight. Easily his best game.

[KB21]

Ayton is clearly a better prospect than either Bagley or Bamba as well.  He's better defensively and has less margin of error on defense than Bagley, and he's far more skilled than either on offense.  Bamba is the only one of the three that is a legitimate rim protector, but he's a limited player on offense and doesn't hedge on screens nearly as well as Ayton.  I think Bagley has a higher revving motor than Ayton, but the skill level just isn't there.

I'd rank the bigs in this class:

1.  Deandre Ayton

2.  Jaren Jackson Jr

3.  Mohammed Bamba

4.  Marvin Bagley III

Collin Sexton is a stud and is one of my favorite prospects to watch.  I love his relentlessness, aggressiveness, and competitiveness.  You don't see him take plays off.  He does what Dennis Schröder should be doing for Atlanta which is aggressively and relentlessly attacking the basket on the drive, using his pull up game off the dribble, dishing the ball when the defense collapses, drawing fouls to get to the FT line, and playing with intensity on defense.  He's a top 5 prospect in this draft.  During the game tonight, the announcers said that Avery Johnson compared him to three lead guards: Kyrie Irving (imagine that), Damien Lillard, and Kevin Johnson.  

[NBASupes]

At this time, I am very impressed with the top of the freshman class and Doncic. Very impressed. I am still not impressed by the depth of this class but I have seen a number of interesting 2nd round guys. 

[Lurker]

Prospects that play for Coach K never learn how to play defense. It's a crying shame.

[KB21]

I think it is going to be very interesting to see which direction the Hawks go in this draft.  This is a draft that is big heavy at the top.  Travis Schlenk is a part of the team that made "small ball" popular though, which Bud is a coach who historically has preferred to play with two bigs as opposed to playing more of a small ball line up with a guy like Taurean Prince playing at the four.  

So, let's look at some scenarios:

1.  The Hawks are in a position to take Deandre Ayton with their pick.  He's your prototypical modern day big with great natural size and skill level, and the ability to guard on the perimeter in a switching style of defense.  You have John Collins on the roster currently, and despite what some believe on here, his fit at this point in his development is more as a small ball five than as a true four.  He's got to expand his offensive game to be a four long term.  Do the Hawks bank on Collins expanding his offensive game and align him next to Ayton down low to have more of a two big line up?  

2.  Travis Schlenk decides to go all in on trying to recreate the style that the Warriors employ.  In this scenario, he sees John Collins's future as a small ball five and feels that he will be a star player at that position.  He wants a stretch four to pair with him, one that can really space the floor and has the ability to push the pace.  Travis gets a good report from the Hawks team docs and the Missouri team docs on Michael Porter's back, and he takes Porter with the Hawks pick, pairing a prototype stretch four with a prototype small ball five.

3.  Travis Schlenk and Mike Budenholzer decide that they want to employ the concepts of both the small ball line ups with the flexibility of being able to run with two bigs.  They end up seeing the four and five positions as interchangeable and really like John Collins long term.  They decide to pair him with Jaren Jackson Jr, who has the length and defensive ability to be both a rim protector and switch defender, but he also has the ability to space the floor on offense.  He's a unique player who has the ability to play the stretch four position on offense, and also defend bigs at the five on defense.  

[marco102]

2 hours ago, KB21 said:

I think it is going to be very interesting to see which direction the Hawks go in this draft.  This is a draft that is big heavy at the top.  Travis Schlenk is a part of the team that made "small ball" popular though, which Bud is a coach who historically has preferred to play with two bigs as opposed to playing more of a small ball line up with a guy like Taurean Prince playing at the four.  

So, let's look at some scenarios:

1.  The Hawks are in a position to take Deandre Ayton with their pick.  He's your prototypical modern day big with great natural size and skill level, and the ability to guard on the perimeter in a switching style of defense.  You have John Collins on the roster currently, and despite what some believe on here, his fit at this point in his development is more as a small ball five than as a true four.  He's got to expand his offensive game to be a four long term.  Do the Hawks bank on Collins expanding his offensive game and align him next to Ayton down low to have more of a two big line up?  

2.  Travis Schlenk decides to go all in on trying to recreate the style that the Warriors employ.  In this scenario, he sees John Collins's future as a small ball five and feels that he will be a star player at that position.  He wants a stretch four to pair with him, one that can really space the floor and has the ability to push the pace.  Travis gets a good report from the Hawks team docs and the Missouri team docs on Michael Porter's back, and he takes Porter with the Hawks pick, pairing a prototype stretch four with a prototype small ball five.

3.  Travis Schlenk and Mike Budenholzer decide that they want to employ the concepts of both the small ball line ups with the flexibility of being able to run with two bigs.  They end up seeing the four and five positions as interchangeable and really like John Collins long term.  They decide to pair him with Jaren Jackson Jr, who has the length and defensive ability to be both a rim protector and switch defender, but he also has the ability to space the floor on offense.  He's a unique player who has the ability to play the stretch four position on offense, and also defend bigs at the five on defense.  

so they don't consider Doncic, who seems like the most Budenholzer player inthe draft?

 

[KB21]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

so they don't consider Doncic, who seems like the most Budenholzer player inthe draft?

 

I'm just focusing on the big pairings for this post.  Yes, Doncic will be considered, but I think we will have to have the #1 pick to get him.

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I'm just focusing on the big pairings for this post.  Yes, Doncic will be considered, but I think we will have to have the #1 pick to get him.

If the Hawks select a big, I hope it's Ayton.  He has the most upside and I feel he and Collins will fit better together than Collins and Bagley.

[DBac]

Collin Sexton is currently sporting a .756 free throw rate, which is ridiculous.

 

John Wall, James Harden, Demar Derozan, Mike Conley, Eric Bledsoe are the top 5 guards in free throw rate right now. This is how they did in their (best) college years.

 

Wall: .530

Harden: .602

Derozan: .401

Conley: .466

Bledsoe: .394

 

Others of note:

Westbrook: .384

Isaiah Thomas: .498

Jimmy Butler: .875(!)

 

Jimmy Butler's number is absurd. He actually had a year with a 1.075 FTr but that was on a smaller sample.

Edited December 10, 2017 by DBac

[Lurker]

DeAndre Ayton is good. The defensive issues he has are fixable, and part of it is his team is just so dang bad on defense. 

Someone is going to take Doncic #1 I bet. You can talk tools, athleticism, all you want, but an 18 year old doing what he has against grown men older than him is simply not going to be ignored. It maybe shouldn't happen if you think tools and athleticism stand out over skill and intangibles, but I bet it does, no matter who is 1st. 

Ayton might honestly be the best player in college, yes, over Bagley. 

[jy23]

8 hours ago, Lurker said:

Prospects that play for Coach K never learn how to play defense. It's a crying shame.

What? This is absolutely false

[Lurker]

7 minutes ago, jy23 said:

What? This is absolutely false

No it's not. If you're a Coach K prospect, Coach K doesn't teach you defense. All of his high prospects have failed defensively at least to start in the NBA.

[Lurker]

Look, this isn't me shooting down Coach K as a Hall of Fame coach, but it can't be just pure coincidence or oh "they suck anyway at defense" that prospects coming from Duke have the rep of being horrible defenders to at least start in the NBA. 

Cal actually makes his young Cats try to play defense, but Coach K doesn't.

[bleachkit]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

Look, this isn't me shooting down Coach K as a Hall of Fame coach, but it can't be just pure coincidence or oh "they suck anyway at defense" that prospects coming from Duke have the rep of being horrible defenders to at least start in the NBA. 

Cal actually makes his young Cats try to play defense, but Coach K doesn't.

Danny Ferry was an absolute lock down defender and you know it.

[Flight]

8 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Danny Ferry was an absolute lock down defender and you know it.

I can’t think of a standout defender he’s produced since battier though. So y’all may have a point there.

[jy23]

How far are we going back with this? Are we talking recent players? Since 2000? Since he got to duke? What we talking?