2018 draft

[Jody23]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

And honestly, forget "drafting for the system". Bud may very well not survive past 2019, if the Hawks aren't showing improvement.  Outside the 2 months of historic basketball, Bud's record as a coach is very mediocre.  Right now, that stretch is looking more like an anomaly than the norm.

We must draft a player who can play under ANY coach.

Speaking of that, would Bud give a guy like Trae Young the freedom to freelance like he does at Oklahoma?  I think we all know the answer to that.  So the next question is this:  Can the "system" maximize a talent like Young, if the system isn't meant to feature one guy?

I agree that you pick the best player and not best player for a system.

On Young, considering the amount of freedom Bud gives Dennis, especially in pick in roll situations, I think Young would do really well.  I actually think he'd get more freedom than Dennis has eventually because of his shooting and the effect it can have on a defense.

[AHF]

6 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Here's the thing though.  If you believe that Bagley is potentially a Hall of Fame talent, you DO NOT pass on Bagley, just because you have Collins.  With a potential top 5 pick, you MUST hit the home run.  Not a single or a double, but a HOME RUN.

So if you're the Hawks, and Bagley is the best talent on the board, you still take him.

Then you play Bagley and Collins beside each other, and see which guy is the best.  If they both gel, and can play with each other, that's the best case scenario for the Hawks.  If they can't play with each other, but still show flashes of talent, you use the lesser guy as a trade chip to get a pick and/or a need player.

The Hawks cannot mess this up though.  IF they do, it could set this franchise back 10 years.

The only caveat I have to that is that you might pass on Bagley even if you believe he is the best talent on the board if you think another player is really close and is a better fit.  If Hakeem and Jordan are on the board and you already have Clyde Drexler, then I think you can rationally pass on Jordan for Hakeem even if you think Jordan is the better talent by a narrow margin because the gap is narrow and you think a lot of Drexler.

I agree you don't pass on a guy who you think is a HOF to get someone like Kyle Lowry (good player, will make some All-Star teams but won't be in the discussion for HOF) where there is a significant gap in talent simply because the other guy is a better fit.

[TheFuzz]

3 hours ago, AHF said:

The only caveat I have to that is that you might pass on Bagley even if you believe he is the best talent on the board if you think another player is really close and is a better fit.  If Hakeem and Jordan are on the board and you already have Clyde Drexler, then I think you can rationally pass on Jordan for Hakeem even if you think Jordan is the better talent by a narrow margin because the gap is narrow and you think a lot of Drexler.

I agree you don't pass on a guy who you think is a HOF to get someone like Kyle Lowry (good player, will make some All-Star teams but won't be in the discussion for HOF) where there is a significant gap in talent simply because the other guy is a better fit.

I also think Bagley and Collins would be a more than fine fit

[AHF]

1 hour ago, TheFuzz said:

I also think Bagley and Collins would be a more than fine fit

I think they would have a hard time together.  Neither has range so spacing would be tough.  Neither is a great defender and one would be at a significant size disadvantage at C so defense would be tough.  A lot of duplication rather than synergy.

[Blunt91]

13 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

And honestly, forget "drafting for the system". Bud may very well not survive past 2019, if the Hawks aren't showing improvement.  Outside the 2 months of historic basketball, Bud's record as a coach is very mediocre.  Right now, that stretch is looking more like an anomaly than the norm.

We must draft a player who can play under ANY coach.

Speaking of that, would Bud give a guy like Trae Young the freedom to freelance like he does at Oklahoma?  I think we all know the answer to that.  So the next question is this:  Can the "system" maximize a talent like Young, if the system isn't meant to feature one guy?

Seems like Schlenk needs to sit down with Bud immediately after the season is over to see if he is still on board being with this team long term.  I don't want any of Bud's input in the draft if he doesn't really want to be here for any considerable amount of time.

[TheFuzz]

8 hours ago, AHF said:

I think they would have a hard time together.  Neither has range so spacing would be tough.  Neither is a great defender and one would be at a significant size disadvantage at C so defense would be tough.  A lot of duplication rather than synergy.

Right now. Bagley will be a good shooter and a hell of a defender in no time. I honestly think he has DPoY potential the way he moves

[DBac]

I've been thinking on what would make me take Bagley with Collins on the team and it'd have to be him developing a handle like Giannis or KD (or at least being able to feel very confident in him being able to do so). Right now his handle is good for a big man but not special like those two (relative to their size). I think the shooting will come around though, he's not Dirk or anything but he can be respected.

[Jody23]

Trae Young just went for 42 pts, 11 Reb, 7 Asts.  He got mad game.

[NBASupes]

On 1/11/2018 at 0:36 AM, TheFuzz said:

Right now. Bagley will be a good shooter and a hell of a defender in no time. I honestly think he has DPoY potential the way he moves

Bagley will be an elite team defender in the next five years but I don't see the rim protection potential. I really think he is a different type of PF. He's like Rodman with elite scoring ability.  No one ever made that comparison but I been thinking about it for awhile. He plays a lot like Rodman but unless Rodman, Bagley is mad skilled. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by NBASupes

[nathan2331]

Bagley will be an elite team defender in the next five years but I don't see the rim protection potential. I really think he is a different type of PF. He's like Rodman with elite scoring ability.  No one ever made that comparison but I been thinking about it for awhile. He plays a lot like Rodman but unless Rodman, Bagley is mad skilled. 

That's a good comp. Bagley out works all his competition and he knows where the ball is. I don't like the combo of him and Collins on defense, but Collins has already shown he can be an effective shot blocker so Bagley perhaps can improve in that regard. I'm still Ayton over everyone, but there's a few other guys I couldn't be mad at.

[AHF]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Bagley will be an elite team defender in the next five years but I don't see the rim protection potential. I really think he is a different type of PF. He's like Rodman with elite scoring ability.  No one ever made that comparison but I been thinking about it for awhile. He plays a lot like Rodman but unless Rodman, Bagley is mad skilled. 

Interesting comparison.  Rodman with elite scoring ability would be a devastating player.  Rodman's D was always great and his rebounding (while artificially inflated by his ignoring other responsibilities to pump his numbers at times) was amazing.  Adding elite scoring would be a truly great player.  I'm skeptical of saying anyone would be able to do what he did on D and the boards just because what he did stands out as pretty unique.

[Lurker]

I'm not there on Bamba at all. At best he's a slightly upgraded version of Rudy Gobert with an average 3 point shot in the future.

Sorry. I may be getting there with Bagley though, however the fit worries me.

[DBac]

4 hours ago, Lurker said:

I'm not there on Bamba at all. At best he's a slightly upgraded version of Rudy Gobert with an average 3 point shot in the future.

Sorry. I may be getting there with Bagley though, however the fit worries me.

I'd rather have JJJr who is blocking everything as well, younger, and shooting almost 50/40/80 than Bamba.

[CP61]

My mid season top 5 for the Hawks assuming Dennis stays:

1. Deandre Ayton

2. Luka Doncic

3. Michael Porter Jr.

4. Marvin Bagley

5. Trae Young

If the Hawks want to move Dennis, and it’s been reported they are open to.

1. Deandre Ayton

2. Trae Young

3. Luka Doncic

4. Michael Porter Jr.

5. Collin Sexton

[CP61]

How high do you think the Hawks could move up using the Twolves and Rockets picks? I’ve been watching Mikal Bridges, and he seems like a Schlenkenholzer wet dream.

[NBASupes]

11 hours ago, CP61 said:

How high do you think the Hawks could move up using the Twolves and Rockets picks? I’ve been watching Mikal Bridges, and he seems like a Schlenkenholzer wet dream.

I want him so bad in our system it's insane. This is the Michigan State player I want @Alex. That said, I don't know If we got the pieces to move up and get him. I think he could go from 8-14. 

[NBASupes]

On 1/17/2018 at 0:17 PM, Lurker said:

I'm not there on Bamba at all. At best he's a slightly upgraded version of Rudy Gobert with an average 3 point shot in the future.

Sorry. I may be getting there with Bagley though, however the fit worries me.

I love Bamba, I think it's a disservice to compare him to Gobert on offense. He has a supremely higher ceiling 

[Alex]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I want him so bad in our system it's insane. This is the Michigan State player I want @Alex. That said, I don't know If we got the pieces to move up and get him. I think he could go from 8-14. 

We talking Miles Bridges or Villanova’s Mikal Bridges?

[CP61]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

We talking Miles Bridges or Villanova’s Mikal Bridges?

I’m talking Mikal. Supes seems to be talking Miles. Mikal is 6’7 with a 7’1 wingspan, and is shooting 44% from 3. His measurements aren’t that different from Kawhi coming out. Not that he’s Kawhi, but he definitely looks like a great fit for Bud with the length Schlenk says he covets.

Edited January 22, 2018 by CP61

[Alex]

8 hours ago, CP61 said:

I’m talking Mikal. Supes seems to be talking Miles. Mikal is 6’7 with a 7’1 wingspan, and is shooting 44% from 3. His measurements aren’t that different from Kawhi coming out. Not that he’s Kawhi, but he definitely looks like a great fit for Bud with the length Schlenk says he covets.

I feel you on the Kawhi comparison.  I haven’t watched any of Villanova so I know very little about Bridges.  He’s probably further along offensively than Kawhi was his rookie season though or at least he should be when Mikal plays next season.