NBASupes Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 1 hour ago, AHF said: What Doncic is doing in Europe at 18 is really impressive. Would not have him at #5 for ceiling but agree he has the highest floor for sure. I agree. I think Doncic and Bagley are Day 1s. All of them can play but those two are could be looking like some of the best ROY's we have seen since this season. Ayton is going to be very good Day 1 but he's not without questions. Porter Jr. offensively is gifted and the NBA scouting community loves him. Bamba is my ace as well. He does too much that leaves me in awe considering his tools. It's like Porzigis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 2 hours ago, AHF said: What Doncic is doing in Europe at 18 is really impressive. Would not have him at #5 for ceiling but agree he has the highest floor for sure. No one in this draft can match Doncic's skill level at this age. He's an elite passer with elite court vision. He can score in isolation. He can score off PNR. He can score coming off screens. No other prospect can match his BBIQ. You put him in Mike Budenholzer's offensive system, and you have a superstar player who will be an elite shot maker and creator for others. This kid may be the best prospect I've ever evaluated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted December 5, 2017 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 26 minutes ago, KB21 said: No one in this draft can match Doncic's skill level at this age. He's an elite passer with elite court vision. He can score in isolation. He can score off PNR. He can score coming off screens. No other prospect can match his BBIQ. You put him in Mike Budenholzer's offensive system, and you have a superstar player who will be an elite shot maker and creator for others. This kid may be the best prospect I've ever evaluated. He's extremely talented but definitely a sub par athlete for NBA standards. Not sure if he can be a superstar lacking elite level quickness or hops. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan2331 Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 No one in this draft can match Doncic's skill level at this age. He's an elite passer with elite court vision. He can score in isolation. He can score off PNR. He can score coming off screens. No other prospect can match his BBIQ. You put him in Mike Budenholzer's offensive system, and you have a superstar player who will be an elite shot maker and creator for others. This kid may be the best prospect I've ever evaluated. I agree with the first part of what you said, but what's his ceiling? He could reach James Harden levels of offensive production, but I can't ever see him being an asset on defense. Personally I don't think he's as bad an athlete as people peg him, but he's definitely not an elite one. Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Sothron Posted December 5, 2017 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 He's not a sub par athlete. His combine numbers will probably surprise some people. He and Ayton are my choices for our pick at this point in time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenHawking Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 vor 3 Stunden, Sothron sagte: He's not a sub par athlete. His combine numbers will probably surprise some people. He and Ayton are my choices for our pick at this point in time. With our staff I'd probably add Bamba to the conversation. I think Hawks University could do things with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benhillboy Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 I don’t know nothing about any of these guys y’all taking about but am I looking at the mock draft wrong? We have 4 picks out of the first 32? When that happen?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benhillboy Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) Collins was a nice sized oil discovery but now it’s time to strike gold in the draft. I just looked back at the 2008 draft, such an inexact science boy. Some of those selections are mind blowing hindsight being 20/20. Edited December 6, 2017 by benhillboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High5 Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 40 minutes ago, benhillboy said: I don’t know nothing about any of these guys y’all taking about but am I looking at the mock draft wrong? We have 4 picks out of the first 32? When that happen?! Our 1st, Minny 1st (Payne - if they make playoffs), Houston 1st (via LAC for taking Crawford), and our 2nd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benhillboy Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 1 hour ago, High5 said: Our 1st, Minny 1st (Payne - if they make playoffs), Houston 1st (via LAC for taking Crawford), and our 2nd. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 7 hours ago, Sothron said: He's not a sub par athlete. His combine numbers will probably surprise some people. He and Ayton are my choices for our pick at this point in time. People will be shock how little ground he covers on defense but just as shocked that he's athletic on offense but defensively, he will be a mess in the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 21 hours ago, nathan2331 said: I agree with the first part of what you said, but what's his ceiling? He could reach James Harden levels of offensive production, but I can't ever see him being an asset on defense. Personally I don't think he's as bad an athlete as people peg him, but he's definitely not an elite one. Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk He doesn't have to be an elite athlete to be a superstar in the NBA. Skill level is far more important than athleticism. All you need is the minimal amount of athleticism needed to function in the NBA, and Luka has that. There are a lot of elite athletes who lack the skill level to be top players in the NBA. See Andrew Wiggins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 59 minutes ago, KB21 said: He doesn't have to be an elite athlete to be a superstar in the NBA. Skill level is far more important than athleticism. All you need is the minimal amount of athleticism needed to function in the NBA, and Luka has that. There are a lot of elite athletes who lack the skill level to be top players in the NBA. See Andrew Wiggins. Skill level is not that important if you don't have enough athleticism. I have never seen an NBA superstar wing with defensive potential as poor as Doncic. You keep running from that fact. While most guys as prospects don't have Doncic otherworldy skill, we drafted the last otherworldy skilled player in Pistol Pete and of course, he proved that skill is not all that important if you don't have enough athleticism. Andrew Wiggins isn't a superstar for numerous reasons. He doesn't understand the game that well, his BBIQ is below average and was bad out of college, his jumpshot needed a lot of work and still does and he's not that skilled. Truth be told, his functional athleticism isn't all that good. He's just a freakish jumper with freakish speed but what good is it when you aren't that coordinated and you can't dribble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 23 hours ago, nathan2331 said: I agree with the first part of what you said, but what's his ceiling? He could reach James Harden levels of offensive production, but I can't ever see him being an asset on defense. Personally I don't think he's as bad an athlete as people peg him, but he's definitely not an elite one. Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk James Harden quickness and strength with his ball handling and finishing ability is something he had out of ASU. This elite passer who can shoot out of this world is something he developed but he didn't come out of ASU with it. Doncic could develop but for now, we know he has the ability to be a very good offensive player right now in the NBA. His potential entirely depends on the system offensively but defensively, he will have to be protected. He covers as much ground as Kyle Korver defensively without anywhere near the defensive awareness of Kyle or understanding of systems and sets but then again, he's 18. No one at 18 has that but defensively, he will be a bad defender day 1. He's between average and below average defensively in Europe right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GThawks3 Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) On 12/5/2017 at 1:59 PM, Sothron said: He's not a sub par athlete. His combine numbers will probably surprise some people. He and Ayton are my choices for our pick at this point in time. Mines the opposite lol. Bagley or Porter are my top choices. Luka doesn’t scream superstar to me and I’m still worried about the potential Collins/Ayton fit. Edited December 6, 2017 by GThawks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted December 7, 2017 Premium Member Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 On 05/12/2017 at 10:25 PM, KB21 said: He doesn't have to be an elite athlete to be a superstar in the NBA. Skill level is far more important than athleticism. All you need is the minimal amount of athleticism needed to function in the NBA, and Luka has that. There are a lot of elite athletes who lack the skill level to be top players in the NBA. See Andrew Wiggins. Lol. Said no scout EVER. Both size and athleticism are actually as elementary in the NBA as skill is and the main reason a lot of mega college stars like Adam Morrison, Jimmer Fredette, Danny Ferry, Shelden Williams etc. etc. etc. heavily underperformed in the league. The jump in athleticism from every other pro (or collegiate) league to the NBA is massive. Doncic is probably skillful enough and more importantly, tall enough to be a very good NBA player regardless.. If you look at all the elite players at Doncic's position you will find a collection of some of the most gifted athletes in the world at any sport. (Gianis, Lebron, Harden, Durante, Kawhi) Will Doncic be able to play defense against such players? Will he able to get buy elite wing defenders at this level?? Those are big, legitimate questions regarding him. Again, I think he is a fantastic player, and probably has the highest floor of any pick in the top five. However, is he the next big thing? Is he the next Kobe, the next Michael Jordan, Lebron, Durant? IMHO I heavily doubt it. When I see him I do not see star level explosiveness in his first step or laterally on defense. Those are things you don't develop with age and that he will constantly have to make up for when he goes against top NBA talent. I see it much more likely that he ends up in the Manu, Klay Thompson, Joe Johnson, Mitch Richmond, Ray Allen, Brandon Roy type level of impact than a superstar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 50 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said: Lol. Said no scout EVER. Both size and athleticism are actually as elementary in the NBA as skill is and the main reason a lot of mega college stars like Adam Morrison, Jimmer Fredette, Danny Ferry, Shelden Williams etc. etc. etc. heavily underperformed in the league. The jump in athleticism from every other pro (or collegiate) league to the NBA is massive. Doncic is probably skillful enough and more importantly, tall enough to be a very good NBA player regardless.. If you look at all the elite players at Doncic's position you will find a collection of some of the most gifted athletes in the world at any sport. (Gianis, Lebron, Harden, Durante, Kawhi) Will Doncic be able to play defense against such players? Will he able to get buy elite wing defenders at this level?? Those are big, legitimate questions regarding him. Again, I think he is a fantastic player, and probably has the highest floor of any pick in the top five. However, is he the next big thing? Is he the next Kobe, the next Michael Jordan, Lebron, Durant? IMHO I heavily doubt it. When I see him I do not see star level explosiveness in his first step or laterally on defense. Those are things you don't develop with age and that he will constantly have to make up for when he goes against top NBA talent. I see it much more likely that he ends up in the Manu, Klay Thompson, Joe Johnson, Mitch Richmond, Ray Allen, Brandon Roy type level of impact than a superstar. Well, there's why you see so many mistake picks made in the top 3. Athleticism got Andrew Wiggins drafted #1. He's a terrible player all around. Athleticism got D'Angelo Russell drafted #2. Another bad player who has already been traded. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist....the list goes on and on. Doncic doesn't compare to any of the ones you mentioned from a skill standpoint nor an athletic standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenHawking Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 (edited) vor einer Stunde, KB21 sagte: Well, there's why you see so many mistake picks made in the top 3. Athleticism got Andrew Wiggins drafted #1. He's a terrible player all around. Athleticism got D'Angelo Russell drafted #2. Another bad player who has already been traded. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist....the list goes on and on. Doncic doesn't compare to any of the ones you mentioned from a skill standpoint nor an athletic standpoint. Without going against your point, but Russell isn't a bad player at all. He looked great so far this season for being this young still. He would've never been traded if Magic Johnson would actually be a GM with common sense. He fell to the Lavarmania. Thats the only reason the Nets got gifted with such a talented young pg Edited December 7, 2017 by StephenHawking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post Jody23 Posted December 7, 2017 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Pretty sure D'Angelo Russell wasn't selected # 2 in the draft because of his athleticism. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan2331 Posted December 7, 2017 Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Well, there's why you see so many mistake picks made in the top 3. Athleticism got Andrew Wiggins drafted #1. He's a terrible player all around. Athleticism got D'Angelo Russell drafted #2. Another bad player who has already been traded. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist....the list goes on and on. Doncic doesn't compare to any of the ones you mentioned from a skill standpoint nor an athletic standpoint. Supes point is that you need both skill AND athleticism. Traits that are present in the best players in the league. I would posit however that if Doncic played SG, his athleticism wouldn't be as huge a problem since a lot of SGs aren't shutdown defenders at least compared to SF. He also would benefit from having a size advantage most nights. Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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