Official Game Thread: Nets at Hawks

[benhillboy]

The Old Guard of Point is gone and it’s a shame.  Kids with one year of “college” aren’t developed enough to defend full, see the entire floor, and direct their 4 teammates like the generation before.

[StephenHawking]

vor 5 Minuten, benhillboy sagte:

The Old Guard of Point is gone and it’s a shame.  Kids with one year of “college” aren’t developed enough to defend full, see the entire floor, and direct their 4 teammates like the generation before.

I'd say the level of basketball is leaps and bounds over the level 10 or more years ago. Today point guards are offensive juggernauts nearly impossible to contain. As AHF said the Stocktons of the game aren't relevant anymore because they don't bring enough value. There's a reason guys like Rubio or Rondo aren't considered upper echelon guards. They can't provide enough to todays game to be a factor.

Edited December 6, 2017 by StephenHawking

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

I'd say the level of basketball is leaps and bounds over the level 10 or more years ago. Today point guards are offensive juggernauts nearly impossible to contain. As AHF said the Stocktons of the game aren't relevant anymore because they don't bring enough value. There's a reason guys like Rubio or Rondo aren't considered upper echelon guards. They can't provide enough to todays game to be a factor.

But most of the best PG's in today's NBA have played 2 or more years of college Basketball. 

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, rd79 said:

True, but nevertheless his +/- (which was discussed here) suffers from his teammates throwing the ball away (and not hitting any shots too often)

Prince was promising in last year's playoffs but at the moment one could see he isn't capable to fill the role he has now. Yes there are positives like his 3 point percentage, but if he starts a drive to the hoop he often has a tunnel vision and isn't able to adjust the play if necessary. In many such situations Dennis was benched in his early years, I hated it, but it was essential for Dennis' development. Prince isn't treated that way (at least not so much) because he already has another role to fill than Dennis in his 2nd year. We will see if that's the way Prince can grow with his tasks or if he develops bad habits due to missing punishment...
 

Prince role and responsibility has tripled. It makes sense his impact has tremendously dropped. He's still promising but his path will just take longer now. 

[benhillboy]

35 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

I'd say the level of basketball is leaps and bounds over the level 10 or more years ago. Today point guards are offensive juggernauts nearly impossible to contain. As AHF said the Stocktons of the game aren't relevant anymore because they don't bring enough value. There's a reason guys like Rubio or Rondo aren't considered upper echelon guards. They can't provide enough to todays game to be a factor.

Many of those same juggernauts’ teams stall in crunchtime and in the playoffs because their philosophy and teaching of a 5-man game is all off or incomplete.  If he can be exploited defensively off the ball or in PNR (like many of them can be) their offensive prowess is further discounted.  The rise of the “combo guard” never excited me.  I always remember seeing people fawn over Marbury and thought “he ain’t all that.”

Edited December 6, 2017 by benhillboy

[AHF]

To be clear, Stockton would still be great today.  I just think he'd look a bit more for his own shot.  Probably would be a rich man's Mike Conley today.

Agree on Starbury and while I think Westbrook is super talented I do wonder if he will be a cancer to teambuilding ala Iverson.

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

To be clear, Stockton would still be great today.  I just think he'd look a bit more for his own shot.  Probably would be a rich man's Mike Conley today.

Agree on Starbury and while I think Westbrook is super talented I do wonder if he will be a cancer to teambuilding ala Iverson.

Rich man's Conley? I disagree. I would say Conley is just as good as Stockton. The game has changed. The PnR isn't anywhere near as easy in today's NBA than in the 90's. Then again, I love Conley's game. He can carry a team. Stockton could as well. He was his team's best player, Malone just got the cred. 

[StephenHawking]

vor 13 Stunden, NBASupes sagte:

But most of the best PG's in today's NBA have played 2 or more years of college Basketball. 

But he was talking bout the 2 years of college referring to the different skillset pgs had back in the day

[StephenHawking]

vor 13 Stunden, benhillboy sagte:

Many of those same juggernauts’ teams stall in crunchtime and in the playoffs because their philosophy and teaching of a 5-man game is all off or incomplete.  If he can be exploited defensively off the ball or in PNR (like many of them can be) their offensive prowess is further discounted.  The rise of the “combo guard” never excited me.  I always remember seeing people fawn over Marbury and thought “he ain’t all that.”

Thats why LeBron Cavs always needed that one guy to go iso in the last two minutes to win the game. 

Actually IMHO the playoffs are EXACTLY that part of the season where great iso scorers are the most important on any roster. There are reasons why the Hawks didn't even have the slightest of chances to go to the finals in 2014.

Great moments need great scorers. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by StephenHawking

[benhillboy]

7 hours ago, StephenHawking said:

Thats why LeBron Cavs always needed that one guy to go iso in the last two minutes to win the game. 

Actually IMHO the playoffs are EXACTLY that part of the season where great iso scorers are the most important on any roster. There are reasons why the Hawks didn't even have the slightest of chances to go to the finals in 2014.

Great moments need great scorers. 

I think we all get caught up in the style of ball we like best but there have been many different ways shown to skin a cat (or win a ‘ship).  None better than the Larry Brown Pistons, with no one anywhere near an ATG, opening up a can on a team with 4 of em.  

I’ll always believe optimum chemistry, defense, and playing the “right way” will trump any collection of elite talent.  If I didn’t know any better I would’ve thought Boris Diaw was a better, higher IQed player than any on the Heat during the 2014 Finals.  I live for those moments that make you go “WTF?”  To this day my cousin still has my favorite player comparison ever, perfectly likening his play to Magic with HIV.

[Watchman]

On 12/5/2017 at 3:31 PM, rd79 said:

Of course he has, he is the primary ball handler....
Dennis, Baze and Prince are the team leaders in touches and turnovers

player | touches | assists | TOs | A/TO | TO/touch
Dennis | 91.2 | 6.5 | 2.9 | 2.2 | .024
Baze | 52.3 | 3.3 | 2.4 | 1.4 | .046
Prince | 46.7 | 2.3 | 2.3 | 1.0 | .049

If you watch this stats, do you still want to tell me Dennis is the most turnover prone of them?
Baze and Prince turn the ball over double the amount as Dennis does per touch and that without having the playmaking responsibility...

I’m sorry I failed to realize that Dennis is better than Hall of Famer Stockton.  Thanks for sharing that. 

[rd79]

7 minutes ago, Watchman said:

I’m sorry I failed to realize that Dennis is better than Hall of Famer Stockton.  Thanks for sharing that. 

Trying to be funny?
I really don't know why I'm still posting here...

[lethalweapon3]

I'll help you all out.

~lw3