Resign Dedmon

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

And this is why we will remain a lottery team until this changes.

Our backup center is not going to be the difference maker between making and missing the playoffs.  This season's success or lack thereof will be all about the readiness and development of our young wings.  Collins will be just fine playing limited minutes as the small ball center with Hunter as the PF.

[Peoriabird]

27 minutes ago, AHF said:

Our backup center is not going to be the difference maker between making and missing the playoffs.  This season's success or lack thereof will be all about the readiness and development of our young wings.  Collins will be just fine playing limited minutes as the small ball center with Hunter as the PF.

If Collins can't stay on the floor due to either foul trouble or God forbid Injury in addition to poor play at the position defensively, then yes it will.  Y'all just some homer azz defender of what you know should not be happening.  Why?

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

If Collins can't stay on the floor due to either foul trouble or God forbid Injury in addition to poor play at the position defensively, then yes it will.  Y'all just some homer azz defender of what you know should not be happening.  Why?

You have to know that with our former GS GM it is absolutely in the plan for us to play some small ball and for Collins to man center when we do.   It will be a minority of his minutes (he played roughly 10% of our minutes at center last season when healthy) but a part of what we expect and want from him.  You know that, right?

What I bet you didn't know is that Collins averaged fewer fouls per minute while playing center.  He put up 5.4 fouls per 48 minutes at PF and 4.9 fouls per 48 minutes at C.  That is a ~10% reduction in foul rate for the time he played center.  On the other end, he drew 4.2 fouls per 48 from opposing PFs while abusing centers by drawing 6.6 fouls per 48 (as they struggled to keep up with his speed and range).

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

You have to know that with our former GS GM it is absolutely in the plan for us to play some small ball and for Collins to man center when we do.   It will be a minority of his minutes (he played roughly 10% of our minutes at center last season when healthy) but a part of what we expect and want from him.  You know that, right?

What I bet you didn't know is that Collins averaged fewer fouls per minute while playing center.  He put up 5.4 fouls per 48 minutes at PF and 4.9 fouls per 48 minutes at C.  That is a ~10% reduction in foul rate for the time he played center.  On the other end, he drew 4.2 fouls per 48 from opposing PFs while abusing centers by drawing 6.6 fouls per 48 (as they struggled to keep up with his speed and range).

What was that defensive rating my friend at center? And he probably went against back ups the majority of the time. Bottom line is John isnt a center...you know and I know it. Green could hold up for longer periods of time at center because he is a better defender but even Golden state had more than 1 true center on their teams at all times.

[Thomas]

Yeah, with Bruno now on our roster would be surprised if any minutes at C aren't Len and him. Injuries would be the only wrench I can think of to that. Don't really care how raw Bruno is at the moment because the overall health of JC would be at risk with good minutes at C whether physical or otherwise. Still have the hustle advantage without as much risk sticking with Bruno at all backup C minutes. Like him but Omari is still just a wild card at the moment. Not going to count how many tiny experimental minutes there will be.

[gurpilo]

hace 3 horas, AHF dijo:

Our backup center is not going to be the difference maker between making and missing the playoffs.  This season's success or lack thereof will be all about the readiness and development of our young wings.  Collins will be just fine playing limited minutes as the small ball center with Hunter as the PF.

It might be a difference if he has to play 23 min and there is a huge drop off on performance because your starting center cannot play more than 25 min. We have a hole and is not certain Spellman or Fernando can cover it, summer league will help to know what we have.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

Injuries would be the only wrench I can think of to that.

When has this team ever been injury free?

[Gray Mule]

Money ain't everything.  Easy to say when you don't have any.  But, our former center wanted to go west.  I'm told that this was home to him.  Don't force anyone to stay somewhere they don't want to be.  He didn't leave mad, as some former Hawks have.  I didn't hear anything about him badmouthing Atlanta.

I hate losing him.  I'm happy for him if this is where he wants to be. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, gurpilo said:

It might be a difference if he has to play 23 min and there is a huge drop off on performance because your starting center cannot play more than 25 min. We have a hole and is not certain Spellman or Fernando can cover it, summer league will help to know what we have.

I just dont know why ehen we make shift everything, people expect victories!  Don't they remember the beginning of last season when some combination of Vince Len Poytress,Spellman were staring?

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Money ain't everything.  Easy to say when you don't have any.  But, our former center wanted to go west.  I'm told that this was home to him.  Don't force anyone to stay somewhere they don't want to be.  He didn't leave mad, as some former Hawks have.  I didn't hear anything about him badmouthing Atlanta.

I hate losing him.  I'm happy for him if this is where he wants to be. 

That's not what happened and you know it! Dedmon did several interview where he clearly stated his desire to stay while Pierce was luke warm and Schlenk told the media he would have him back on his terms meaning a 1 maybe a 2 year deal. Dedmon just wanted 1 more year since he hadn't made much money in his career. Apparently Schlenk and company called his bluff and lost.

[Gray Mule]

Are you saying he didn't want to go west?

 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Are you saying he didn't want to go west?

 

He has never said this...where are you getting this from?

[Peoriabird]

4 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Are you saying he didn't want to go west?

 

From what I heard...he was beloved in the locker room.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

What was that defensive rating my friend at center? And he probably went against back ups the majority of the time. Bottom line is John isnt a center...you know and I know it. Green could hold up for longer periods of time at center because he is a better defender but even Golden state had more than 1 true center on their teams at all times.

Wait, wait is it about the increased risk of foul trouble like you said twice or not? 

Seems like you are moving the goal posts since you were focused on him getting too many fouls. 

But let's address the performance issue you raise.  It is not a shock that Collins suffers defensively at C and I don't disagree with that at all.  You should also note that he generated more rebounds and score more points (per minute) at a higher fg% while playing center.

The interesting thing is how the team does with small versus conventional lineups.  When you start looking at the +/- of the top 5 man lineups for the Hawks, it gets interesting.  Of the top ten 5 man lineups by minutes played for 2018-19, the Hawks were a cumulative -74 with Collins at power forward and were +19 with him at center.

This is why the Hawks have consistently given him some minutes there and you will continue to see him get minutes there.  I'll take a stab at minutes distribution and project a breakdown something like:

Len 24 mpg

Backup FA C 15 mpg*

Collins 4.5 mpg

Spellman 4.5 mpg*

(Probably the backup C and Spellman will have higher MPG but will miss some games during the season so this is actually how I would guess the total minutes will be distributed for the bottom 3 - ~31%, ~9%, ~9%.)

[Peoriabird]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

If Collins can't stay on the floor due to either foul trouble or God forbid Injury in addition to poor play at the position defensively, then yes it will.  Y'all just some homer azz defender of what you know should not be happening.  Why?

 

6 minutes ago, AHF said:

Wait, wait is it about the increased risk of foul trouble like you said twice or not? 

Seems like you are moving the goal posts since you were focused on him getting too many fouls.

I think you missed part of my statement

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

 

Of the top ten 5 man lineups by minutes played for 2018-19, the Hawks were a cumulative -74 with Collins at power forward and were +19 with him at center.

 

What about all of the line ups and I clearly stated that he probably played center against back ups.  Still waiting on that defensive rating

[Cwell]

People are really bitching about Dewayne Dedmon?!?!?!  

[hazer]

37 minutes ago, AHF said:

Wait, wait is it about the increased risk of foul trouble like you said twice or not? 

Seems like you are moving the goal posts since you were focused on him getting too many fouls. 

But let's address the performance issue you raise.  It is not a shock that Collins suffers defensively at C and I don't disagree with that at all.  You should also note that he generated more rebounds and score more points (per minute) at a higher fg% while playing center.

The interesting thing is how the team does with small versus conventional lineups.  When you start looking at the +/- of the top 5 man lineups for the Hawks, it gets interesting.  Of the top ten 5 man lineups by minutes played for 2018-19, the Hawks were a cumulative -74 with Collins at power forward and were +19 with him at center.

This is why the Hawks have consistently given him some minutes there and you will continue to see him get minutes there.  I'll take a stab at minutes distribution and project a breakdown something like:

Len 24 mpg

Backup FA C 15 mpg*

Collins 4.5 mpg

Spellman 4.5 mpg*

(Probably the backup C and Spellman will have higher MPG but will miss some games during the season so this is actually how I would guess the total minutes will be distributed for the bottom 3 - ~31%, ~9%, ~9%.)

So you see Fernando in G-League all season?

[AHF]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

What about all of the line ups and I clearly stated that he probably played center against back ups.  Still waiting on that defensive rating

After losing my fight with excel (stupid numbers showing up as text and won't convert to numbers), I did this manually for all the lineups listed: 

Lineups with Collins at PF = Net -89

Lineups with Collins at C = Net +17

Quote

 I clearly stated that he probably played center against back ups.  

Now for your statement that he probably played center against backups, I'd say that is pure speculation (since we can't validate or invalidate it) and "who cares?"  I'm talking about him continuing to play roughly 5 minutes per game at center.  He can easily find those minutes against opposing backups.

Quote

Still waiting on that defensive rating

Defensive rating isn't listed by position but offensive and defensive ratings are listed by 5 man lineups and they show the team being almost equal defensively with him at PF and C but much better offensively with him at center:

Lineups with Collins at PF = 1.149 OFF / 1.196 DEF

Lineups with Collins at C = 1,202 OFF / 1.205 DEF

[AHF]

43 minutes ago, hazer said:

So you see Fernando in G-League all season?

No.  That is more oversight on my part.  I'd guess Fernando plays something like 38 games and averages 10 minutes per game but that is a very blind guess.  This is just pure guesswork on my part and I hope he turns out to be a lot more ready than what that suggests. 

I'm highly confident that Collins will continue to see limited minutes at center and that Len will get significant burn.  Beyond that, it depends on what big man we add to the roster and how Spellman and Fernando develop.  If the team is unhappy with Spellman's conditioning and Fernando shows he can handle some time, then maybe Spellman gets sidelined and Fernando steps forward.  If we add a big man who is better than Len (which I was guessing won't happen) and people are healthy, then minutes for Spellman and/or Fernando probably start to get tough to find.

Bottomline:  Collins will continue to see limited minutes at center.